Another Aust soldier killed in Afghanistan - 10 now

[Jafa]

Why would I honour his death, do you honour someone killed here in Australia in a car accident? He's a soldier, he knew the risks & unfortunately lost out. How many innocent civillians did he kill before he died?

The bolded bit is a load of rubbish, why were there mass demonstrations all across Australia against invading Iraq. FFS, they weren't involved in 11/9 & they didn't have WOMD like the yanks lied about.

I worry more about the attitude of a lot of young Australians who are becoming WS, they are more of a threat to us than radical Islamics.

Tell that to the Kurds that Saddam gassed.

I keep hearing this s**t about aussies killing innocent civilians as if it's something they go out of there way to do. When the enemy fights in the streets - civilian casualties are inevitable.

SBS just had a report on the rights of women in Afghanistan as it stands today. Whilst it is still ordinary - they now have schooling, can wear attire not so debasing and are able to get treatment for their children if it is needed (and in this country it is often needed). None of this was possible prior to the Talibans removal. None of it. The women in this country where lower than dog s**t.

Now that the Taliban are gaining a foothold once again - even these meager gains are once again being eroded. These ****ers want this for the entire population of this planet. They can see no other way.

We should wipe them out pronto. Whilst we are at it - we can have a go at the poppie fields that are playing a hand at killing our youth.

 

[placebo]

You can see similar pictures of life in LA.

So you reckon we should invade?

What a ridiculous thing to say.

The difference is, in America if a guy smacks a woman, it's illegal and he'll get in trouble for it.

Over there, he will not and it's perfectly legal to hit your wife over there.

Don't make stupid comparisons.

 

[mantis]

Tell that to the Kurds that Saddam gassed.

I keep hearing this s**t about aussies killing innocent civilians as if it's something they go out of there way to do. When the enemy fights in the streets - civilian casualties are inevitable.

SBS just had a report on the rights of women in Afghanistan as it stands today. Whilst it is still ordinary - they now have schooling, can wear attire not so debasing and are able to get treatment for their children if it is needed (and in this country it is often needed). None of this was possible prior to the Talibans removal. None of it. The women in this country where lower than dog s**t.

Now that the Taliban are gaining a foothold once again - even these meager gains are once again being eroded. These ****ers want this for the entire population of this planet. They can see no other way.

We should wipe them out pronto. Whilst we are at it - we can have a go at the poppie fields that are playing a hand at killing our youth.

What on "Prototype Thief"?

By the way, women have been able to get an education for years. Why do you think there are so many muslim women who are professionals here, sure there was a lot who were stopped but that was down to their families beliefs, many had parents who were more open minded.

About the poppies, you will have a lot of Aussies, including older posters on BF, who say there is nothing wrong with taking drugs, that it is less harmful than alcohol.

 

[Jafa]

What on "Prototype Thief"?


By the way, women have been able to get an education for years. Why do you think there are so many muslim women who are professionals here, sure there was a lot who were stopped but that was down to their families beliefs, many had parents who were more open minded.

Don't roll your eyes at every post mantis. It was the Newshour.

Under the Taleban rule, from 1996 to 2001, female education was banned. Women and girls were excluded from all aspects of Afghan educational life, from primary school to university.

The government closed all of the girls' schools in the country and prevented female teachers from working.

Many parents feared that their daughters would grow up illiterate. Some girls were secretly educated in their homes by parents and teachers; others attended underground schools.

The rest of your post was just stupid.

 

[camsmith]

''Central front' in the 'war on terror''?

A 'new democracy' would not do us much harm?

I need no longer miss having Foxtel and the pecksniffian Bill O'Reilly -- you more than suffice.

That came from the terrorists own mouths. It's hard to argue that Iraq wasn't a crucial front in the WoT.

And of course democracy in the ME isn't a bad thing is it?

 

[mantis]

Don't roll your eyes at every post mantis. It was the Newshour.





The rest of your post was just stupid.

Got a link to the last part of your post?

 

[Jafa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/ihavearightto/four_b/casestudy_art26.shtml

 

[camsmith]

Why would I honour his death, do you honour someone killed here in Australia in a car accident? He's a soldier, he knew the risks & unfortunately lost out. How many innocent civillians did he kill before he died?

The bolded bit is a load of rubbish, why were there mass demonstrations all across Australia against invading Iraq. FFS, they weren't involved in 11/9 & they didn't have WOMD like the yanks lied about.

I worry more about the attitude of a lot of young Australians who are becoming WS, they are more of a threat to us than radical Islamics.

Are you serious? Those in the ADF are protecting Australia and our society.. how is that comparable to someone dying in a car crash? Those who serve allow us to live our life peacefully and freely.

How many innocents died fighting the nazis? In war there are always going to be innocents killed, that doesn't necessarily make a certain war wrong.

Lol.. Mass demonstrations. Must of missed those. Besides that means little regarding my post about Iraq being the central front in the WoT.

What is WS? And btw, its 9/11 not 11/9 (its a name not a date) and they did have chemical weapons, besides that wasn't the only reason given for the liberation of Iraq.

 

[mantis]

Are you serious? Those in the ADF are protecting Australia and our society.. how is that comparable to someone dying in a car crash? Those who serve allow us to live our life peacefully and freely.

How many innocents died fighting the nazis? In war there are always going to be innocents killed, that doesn't necessarily make a certain war wrong.

Lol.. Mass demonstrations. Must of missed those. Besides that means little regarding my post about Iraq being the central front in the WoT.

What is WS? And btw, its 9/11 not 11/9 (its a name not a date) and they did have chemical weapons, besides that wasn't the only reason given for the liberation of Iraq.

1.They are not protecting me, they are invading a country that has not threatened me. I was living my life peacefully before the illegal invasion. Remember, even the UN was against it.

2. I'm sure a lot, but we aren't talking about the Nazis.

3. Yes you must HAVE, not surprised though, ignorance is bliss.

4. You know damn well that WS is white supremacists & it is only called 9/11, because the yanks put their dates backwards, being an Aussie, I put the dates the right way around. WMD was the main reason Bush gave for invading Iraq, want me to drag up all the threads on BF at that time, where you & others were agreeing that we had to invade because they had them & the west were in danger from them?

 

[camsmith]

SBS just had a report on the rights of women in Afghanistan as it stands today. Whilst it is still ordinary - they now have schooling, can wear attire not so debasing and are able to get treatment for their children if it is needed (and in this country it is often needed). None of this was possible prior to the Talibans removal. None of it. The women in this country where lower than dog s**t.

Which is why im always so surprised that feminists like mantis are so against the liberation of Afghanistan.

I also saw a show today on Afghanistan about a young lady going for her drivers licence... under the Taliban women couldn't drive but now she is so happy to have the freedom of driving.

Women couldn't be in public without a male relative by her side. They weren't allowed to work, girls schools were closed, they had to wear burqas, male doctors were not allowed to treat women and the list goes on.

It may not be perfect now and the Taliban are making a huge push at the moment to take power back but surely it is better than it was, and surely a feminist like mantis would support moves to give females more rights.

 

[camsmith]

1.They are not protecting me, they are invading a country that has not threatened me. I was living my life peacefully before the illegal invasion. Remember, even the UN was against it.

2. I'm sure a lot, but we aren't talking about the Nazis.

3. Yes you must HAVE, not surprised though, ignorance is bliss.

4. You know damn well that WS is white supremacists & it is only called 9/11, because the yanks put their dates backwards, being an Aussie, I put the dates the right way around. WMD was the main reason Bush gave for invading Iraq, want me to drag up all the threads on BF at that time, where you & others were agreeing that we had to invade because they had them & the west were in danger from them?

The ADF itself does protect you, without them we would be extremely vulnerable.

But we are talking about war and how it is fought.

Most Australians didn't care enough about Iraq to walk a few kms holding silly looking signs.

And seriously I didn't know what WS stood for. I guess im not down with stormfront slang like your good self.

It is known as 9/11, do you think the yanks or some other nation would call Ash Wednesday a different name because it didn't coincide with their local date?

I joined BF in 2005 so feel free to drag up threads and quotes by myself pre-liberation of Iraq if you wish. Good luck with it.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Sad to see camsmith is singing from the neocon song sheet as much as ever

 

[camsmith]

Sad to see camsmith is singing from the neocon song sheet as much as ever

How sad not everyone shares your POV on politics.

I apologise, Comrade.

 

[fairdinkum]

SBS just had a report on the rights of women in Afghanistan as it stands today. Whilst it is still ordinary - they now have schooling, can wear attire not so debasing and are able to get treatment for their children if it is needed (and in this country it is often needed). None of this was possible prior to the Talibans removal. None of it. The women in this country where lower than dog s**t.

Now that the Taliban are gaining a foothold once again - even these meager gains are once again being eroded. These ****ers want this for the entire population of this planet. They can see no other way.

So Australian soldiers' lives should be lost so that women in some ungodly part of the world can wear clothes like women here?

And people accuse me of 'not supporting our troops'.

We should wipe them out pronto. Whilst we are at it - we can have a go at the poppie fields that are playing a hand at killing our youth.

You mean the poppy fields that only sprung up once we got rid of the Taliban?

 

[fairdinkum]

That came from the terrorists own mouths. It's hard to argue that Iraq wasn't a crucial front in the WoT.

1) What exactly is this 'War on Terror'? And when did it begin? And who started it?

2) So do we believe the terrorists or not? Are they trustworthy enough to cite as a source?

And of course democracy in the ME isn't a bad thing is it?

1) Do you really believe Iraq is a 'democracy' now?

2) If it is a 'democracy', is it a stable one? If not, is this really such a good thing?

3) Even if Iraq were to become a 'stable democracy', would it be worth the loss of thousands of American and allied lives (including Australians), the wounding of many thousands more, and the death of countless Iraqi civilians?

...besides [WMD's] wasn't the only reason given for the liberation of Iraq.

Oh my god...

 

[camsmith]

1) What exactly is this 'War on Terror'? And when did it begin? And who started it?

2) So do we believe the terrorists or not? Are they trustworthy enough to cite as a source?

It is the measures taken to defeat Islamic extremism.

On this, of course we believe the terrorists. Why do you think they study tape of OBL and other extremists? They know where they fight is (or was) and how important Iraq is. Should we just ignore everything they say?

1) Do you really believe Iraq is a 'democracy' now?

2) If it is a 'democracy', is it a stable one? If not, is this really such a good thing?

3) Even if Iraq were to become a 'stable democracy', would it be worth the loss of thousands of American and allied lives (including Australians), the wounding of many thousands more, and the death of countless Iraqi civilians?

1) A young one, yes.

2) As stable as it has been for years.

3) They didn't have the luxury of hindsight. It wasn't known how many lives it would cost so that argument is besides the point. I think preventing Iraq from obtaining WMD, freeing its people and promoting democracy in the ME was worth it although I hate that it cost even one life.

Also, IIRC we haven't lost any Australians in combat in Iraq?

Oh my god...

What?

I can link to the Iraq war resolution that was approved by congress if you'd like?

 

[fairdinkum]

2) As stable as it has been for years.

Reminds me of Homer Simpson pawning his television.

Pawnbroker: 'Is it cable-ready?'

Homer: 'Ready as she'll ever be'

3) They didn't have the luxury of hindsight. It wasn't known how many lives it would cost so that argument is besides the point.

We do have the benefit of hindsight. I am asking you: was it worth it?

Also, IIRC we haven't lost any Australians in combat in Iraq?

http://icasualties.org/Iraq/DeathsByCountry.aspx

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Now I have always supported us going into Afghanistan but Iraq was a different story that was IMO a lot more murky. ( I was in the military when all of this started and have had many mates go over)

Initially we were told by all and sundry it was because of WMD and when they didn't turn up it changed to regime change then some highly placed (I think retiring and can't think of his name off the top of my head) US politician told us it was always about the oil and now in its latest incarnation it has morphed into the war on terror. (which it never was, that was Afghanistan) The media have a fair part to play in this too, they should stop referring to the war in Iraq as the war on terror.

As far as democracy goes, what makes us so arrogant to think it is so good that we must force it onto other people (like religions)? We may think it is the best and the only way but others may not necessarily share our views.

As for the poppy fields. If the West wasn't full of useless junkies there would be no demand and therefore no need for poppies to be grown anywhere other than for medicinal purposes.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

http://icasualties.org/Iraq/DeathsByCountry.aspx[/quote]

Yeah that's a good link fairdinkum but it doesn't answer the question. All the Australians killed in Iraq thus far have been private civilain contractors .

I think the question was referring to troops in combat.

 

[camsmith]

Now I have always supported us going into Afghanistan but Iraq was a different story that was IMO a lot more murky. ( I was in the military when all of this started and have had many mates go over)

Initially we were told by all and sundry it was because of WMD and when they didn't turn up it changed to regime change then some highly placed (I think retiring and can't think of his name off the top of my head) US politician told us it was always about the oil and now in its latest incarnation it has morphed into the war on terror. (which it never was, that was Afghanistan) The media have a fair part to play in this too, they should stop referring to the war in Iraq as the war on terror.

To be fair there were other reasons given before the invasion. As I pointed out to fairdinkum if you read the Iraq war resolution that was presented to and voted for by the US congress you'll see WMD was one of many reasons given to justify going in there.

And regarding Iraq as not being part of the WoT. I beg to differ, peoples opinions may differ as to whether before the invasion it was part of it (with Saddam funding terrorists etc.. I would say it was) but the simple fact is once the US were in Iraq the terrorists flowed in there to fight the US, they wanted to win the war there, and then of course with the help of Iraqs resources they'd be able to build Iraq up as another safe haven similar to Afghanistan. So it either was always part of the WoT or it became part of it, either way the CoW have been fighting Islamic terrorists there and so far have come out on top which is a major blow to al-Qaeda and similar extremist groups.

As far as democracy goes, what makes us so arrogant to think it is so good that we must force it onto other people (like religions)? We may think it is the best and the only way but others may not necessarily share our views.

As for the poppy fields. If the West wasn't full of useless junkies there would be no demand and therefore no need for poppies to be grown anywhere other than for medicinal purposes.

Why should one dictator decide whether his country wants democracy or not? In Iraqs first election amid the threat of violence and 9 separate attacks (44 deaths) and boycotts by numerous Sunni political parties, the turnout was still 58%.

In the second election about a year later turnout was 79.6%.

 

[camsmith]

Yeah that's a good link fairdinkum but it doesn't answer the question. All the Australians killed in Iraq thus far have been private civilain contractors .

I think the question was referring to troops in combat.

I should have been more clear, I was talking about combat deaths in the ADF. Thus far in Iraq we have lost Private Jake Kovco, a soldier in Kuwait who died in a training accident and an Australian who was serving with Britain's Royal Air Force.

 

[Jafa]

So Australian soldiers' lives should be lost so that women in some ungodly part of the world can wear clothes like women here?

And people accuse me of 'not supporting our troops'.



You mean the poppy fields that only sprung up once we got rid of the Taliban?

The first part is gibberish . As to the second - the largest recent opium haul from Afghanistan was in 1999 - which is smack bang in the middle of the Talibans rule. The subsequent banning of opium fields where a design by the Taliban to increase the profits of their own crops.

 

[Schism]

The first part is gibberish . As to the second - the largest recent opium haul from Afghanistan was in 1999 - which is smack bang in the middle of the Talibans rule. The subsequent banning of opium fields where a design by the Taliban to increase the profits of their own crops.

Yep they became the sole supplier of opium,in effect.

heh...kinda like an AWB situation

 

[mantis]

Yep they became the sole supplier of opium,in effect.

heh...kinda like an AWB situation

I guess we should invade Columbia, because that is where the majority of drugs come from, OOPS no muslims there.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

And sooner or later it is gonna get real ugly in Pakistan.It already is in some areas.You only have to see how the Taliban treat their own people under sharia law in Afghanistan and Pakistan to understand how important it is we take them on there and now.If we don't,they will eventually take over Pakistan and spread to Indonesia,and that can't be allowed to happen.We are less than dog s**t to them.

It is already ugly in Pakistan ... Waziristan etc. The border between Afghan/Pak doesn't exist except on maps ... the Durand line etc.

Re; treating their own people? They are the people.