Welcome Another Irishman: Stefan Okunbor

[strauchnyy]

Yeah its way too expensive to attract new fans imo. And no, not paid as professionals, though of course they are basically "professional" in terms of fitness levels etc.

Are you able to give some more info on Okunbor?

Strengths/weaknesses
What type of player he is similar to in the AFL
Is he a defender (and unable to play in other positions)

Thanks

 

[Max Milburn]

This article has some interesting points, linking our game and Irish game historically as far back as the 1860s.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/02/24/gaelic-football-vs-aussie-rules-is-there-a-connection/

The more interesting points revolve around how similar many of the rules were, even down to Gaelic football having point posts before 1910, and Aussie rules using a round ball in its early form.

 

[Turbocat]

This article has some interesting points, linking our game and Irish game historically as far back as the 1860s.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/02/24/gaelic-football-vs-aussie-rules-is-there-a-connection/

The more interesting points revolve around how similar many of the rules were, even down to Gaelic football having point posts before 1910, and Aussie rules using a round ball in its early form.

Probably ..in some way shows why there is a suspicion of things like aflX... who knows where it goes

 

[catswhiskers]

Are you able to give some more info on Okunbor?

Strengths/weaknesses
What type of player he is similar to in the AFL
Is he a defender (and unable to play in other positions)

Thanks

Nobody really knows - closed training makes it hard to track progress eg with kicking.

We know two things: He has the perfect AFL body and a big tank. Beyond that it's just a matter of sit back and enjoy the journey with him.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Are you able to give some more info on Okunbor?

Strengths/weaknesses
What type of player he is similar to in the AFL
Is he a defender (and unable to play in other positions)

Thanks

I am afraid I can't add much other than what's already been said, he has only played Minor (U18) and U20 at this stage of his inter-county career (and I am not a Kerry man), so have only saw him in a couple of games. This year is when he would have broken through to senior level (and I would have seen more of him). From what I have seen, he reads the game (our game anyway) very well, is strong in the air, has a great physical attributes and is more than capable of running the ball out of defence. He is a defender, but for his club he plays in the midfield unlike inter-county level where he is a fullback.

 

[Rimbaud82]

This article has some interesting points, linking our game and Irish game historically as far back as the 1860s.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/02/24/gaelic-football-vs-aussie-rules-is-there-a-connection/

The more interesting points revolve around how similar many of the rules were, even down to Gaelic football having point posts before 1910, and Aussie rules using a round ball in its early form.

That's interesting, I had never realised that the rules at one stage had point posts:

You would have to conclude that that at the very least is an influence from Aussie rules. There was also a very strong influence from rugby and soccer of course. I think in it's codification, gaelic took from all of the previously codified football games, as well as from hurling. Though I read also (in a good book that came out a few months ago called How Football Began) that a behind wasn't worth a point in aussie rules until 1897, so the cross-code influence probably went both ways.

 

[Max Milburn]

That's interesting, I had never realised that the rules at one stage had point posts:

You would have to conclude that that at the very least is an influence from Aussie rules. There was also a very strong influence from rugby and soccer of course. I think in it's codification, gaelic took from all of the previously codified football games, as well as from hurling. Though I read also (in a good book that came out a few months ago called How Football Began) that a behind wasn't worth a point in aussie rules until 1897, so the cross-code influence probably went both ways.

Great photo.
In the article it says the points were used only to separate the winner when the scores (goals) were tied.

 

[Rimbaud82]

Great photo.
In the article it says the points were used only to separate the winner when the scores (goals) were tied.

Yeah, I always knew that. But I never realised that the points where from "behind" type posts at that time!

That photo puts International Rules in a new light lol

 

[Footy Smarts]

On the opposite end of the spectrum I was bullish about O'Connor making the grade but now I'm not so sure. I simply don't get the fanfare on this board about O'Connor.

I reckon O'Connor has gone backwards strangely enough.

Huh? In his last game he was one of our best and one of a very small number to withstand the pressure in a cut-throat final in only his 7th match. And you reckon he's gone backwards? What does the guy need to do to show improvement in your book?

I also don't see the fanfare you are talking about. Before the elimination final it was a pretty lonely place on his bandwagon. Even now a lot of posters don't even have him in our best 22 and he seems to be rated comparably to guys like Cunico, Jones, Narkle and Constable who weren't even picked for the final last year let alone playing very well like O'Connor did.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Huh? In his last game he was one of our best and one of a very small number to withstand the pressure in a cut-throat final in only his 7th match. And you reckon he's gone backwards? What does the guy need to do to show improvement in your book?

I also don't see the fanfare you are talking about. Before the elimination final it was a pretty lonely place on his bandwagon. Even now a lot of posters don't even have him in our best 22 and he seems to be rated comparably to guys like Cunico, Jones, Narkle and Constable who weren't even picked for the final last year let alone playing very well like O'Connor did.

You probably need to read or quote the full post. I've given an explanation. And I don't agree he was one of our best in the final which is part of the fanfare I'm talking about.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yeah I am not sure where that has come from, he's not a super exciting forward like Mark O'Connor was for Kerry (or David Clifford and Sean O'Shea for players still back here) but this is a big loss for Kerry, he's a very talented footballer. Man of the match in the Munster minor final, and Munster U20 player of the year.

I think I was the one who said that Okunbor wasn't rated as highly as O'Connor. I might have got it wrong but I thought O'Connor won man of the match honors (twice?) in junior finals at all-Ireland level. Whereas Okunbor was only talked about at Munster level. I assumed that meant he played at a lower level? I wasn't trying to disparage him by saying that but I assumed he'd be somewhere in the top 30-50 juniors for his age across Ireland whereas I remember when O'Connor signed hearing a former coach of his say that he was one of the most talented Gaelic juniors of the past decade. I guess in AFL terms it sounded like the difference between a guaranteed top 5 draft pick and somebody who'd probably be a 2nd-4th round pick.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You probably need to read or quote the full post. I've given an explanation. And I don't agree he was one of our best in the final which is part of the fanfare I'm talking about.

The main reason his run and carry has reduced was because he was playing as a very deep shutdown defender. And if you don't think he was one of our best I suggest you sit through that shitshow again. And he wasn't just one of our best because our players were terrible (which they were), he was objectively very, very good winning contests continually and actually providing a fair bit of drive while having only 2 turnovers (average for our team was 3.5) and making 9 intercepts (average for the team was 3.4). The irony being that even many of those who accept he had a very good game (that you describe as fanfare) still don't rate him highly enough to even name him in their best 22.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The main reason his run and carry has reduced was because he was playing as a very deep shutdown defender. And if you don't think he was one of our best I suggest you sit through that shitshow again. And he wasn't just one of our best because our players were terrible (which they were), he was objectively very, very good winning contests continually and actually providing a fair bit of drive while having only 2 turnovers (average for our team was 3.5) and making 9 intercepts (average for the team was 3.4). The irony being that even many of those who accept he had a very good game (that you describe as fanfare) still don't rate him highly enough to even name him in their best 22.

I disagree and don't need to watch it again.

 

[catswhiskers]

The main reason his run and carry has reduced was because he was playing as a very deep shutdown defender. And if you don't think he was one of our best I suggest you sit through that shitshow again. And he wasn't just one of our best because our players were terrible (which they were), he was objectively very, very good winning contests continually and actually providing a fair bit of drive while having only 2 turnovers (average for our team was 3.5) and making 9 intercepts (average for the team was 3.4). The irony being that even many of those who accept he had a very good game (that you describe as fanfare) still don't rate him highly enough to even name him in their best 22.

Criticisms of MOC sound a bit like those Blicavs faced for a year or two or three.. Lets see.

O'Connor already gives me some hope he will play a bigger role because of the defensive attributes he displays. If his AFL curve continues upwards there may be more on offer. His top end may even be a hard at it inside mid!

Who knows - (the Blicavs knockers went a bit early).

Enjoy these guys they are doing it the hard way.

 

[Landgraft]

The main reason his run and carry has reduced was because he was playing as a very deep shutdown defender. And if you don't think he was one of our best I suggest you sit through that shitshow again. And he wasn't just one of our best because our players were terrible (which they were), he was objectively very, very good winning contests continually and actually providing a fair bit of drive while having only 2 turnovers (average for our team was 3.5) and making 9 intercepts (average for the team was 3.4). The irony being that even many of those who accept he had a very good game (that you describe as fanfare) still don't rate him highly enough to even name him in their best 22.

I'm guilty of not having him in the 22, but its hard to find spots in our backline imo. Could easily see him starting in Tuohy's place R1 if he doesn't get up.

 

[Willo_]

I'm really intrigued by Okunbor.. Looks an absolute physical specimen, and seeing at times they have had him running with Danger and the like at training I wonder if they are thinking of him in run with roles, or if it is simply to fast track his development.

His kicking worries me, needs to tighten up that action a fair bit to make it but I mean he's been doing it for all of 6 months so I have no doubt it will improve and is being worked on anyway.




Off topic I don't think O'Connor has looked overly out of place in his limited games, this year will be make or break though I'd say.. The Irish blokes that make it tend to be making a spot their own in a best 22 in year 3

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I reckon O'Connor has gone backwards strangely enough. As with a few players who have shown promise in the VFL they just don't seem to be allowed to play their natural game at AFL level. Cockatoo was a prime example when he burst onto the scene taking the game on. He got caught once and his run and carry stopped. O'Connor just doesn't seem to play with freedom and confidence at AFL level and I think that's a coaching direction.

Watch these highlights against Box Hill to get an understanding of what I'm trying to say. https://www.geelongcats.com.au/video/2017-05-11/mark-oconnor-highlights

The biggest point of interest is at the 2:10 mark where he takes the game on with confidence. We don't see that now.

I reckon the main thing i notice about those highlights is that they're in a vfl match. Pretty big step up being one of our best in a final. I agree the sample size is probably a little too small at this stage to lock him in as a best 22 player but he's in the conversation.

 

[Rimbaud82]

I think I was the one who said that Okunbor wasn't rated as highly as O'Connor. I might have got it wrong but I thought O'Connor won man of the match honors (twice?) in junior finals at all-Ireland level. Whereas Okunbor was only talked about at Munster level. I assumed that meant he played at a lower level? I wasn't trying to disparage him by saying that but I assumed he'd be somewhere in the top 30-50 juniors for his age across Ireland whereas I remember when O'Connor signed hearing a former coach of his say that he was one of the most talented Gaelic juniors of the past decade. I guess in AFL terms it sounded like the difference between a guaranteed top 5 draft pick and somebody who'd probably be a 2nd-4th round pick.

Oh yeah, fair enough, compared to O'Connor he's not nearly as highly rated (and he came off the bench at minor level), but since being moved to full back at U20 last year he started to come into his own a lot and by all accounts was a cert to make it into the senior side this year.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'm guilty of not having him in the 22, but its hard to find spots in our backline imo. Could easily see him starting in Tuohy's place R1 if he doesn't get up.

That's perfectly fair. I agree spots down back are pretty tight and while he finished the year really well it's a small sample size. I rate his potential enormously and am backing him to have a breakout year but based on output it's reasonable to have him anywhere between player 15 and 35 on the list. But that's exactly the point. There's been no fanfare about him at all really. The standard view just send to have gone from "he's terrible how is he getting a game" to "he did ok and maybe he'll be a useful player". Nobody's picking him to be a future Brownlow medalist (except maybe me).

 

[Footy Smarts]

Oh yeah, fair enough, compared to O'Connor he's not nearly as highly rated (and he came off the bench at minor level), but since being moved to full back at U20 last year he started to come into his own a lot and by all accounts was a cert to make it into the senior side this year.

Thanks for the info! Sounds like were keeping a watchful eye and jumped in when he showed signs of really developing. Here's hoping he's still on the steep upward curve.

 

[Landgraft]

That's perfectly fair. I agree spots down back are pretty tight and while he finished the year really well it's a small sample size. I rate his potential enormously and am backing him to have a breakout year but based on output it's reasonable to have him anywhere between player 15 and 35 on the list. But that's exactly the point. There's been no fanfare about him at all really. The standard view just send to have gone from "he's terrible how is he getting a game" to "he did ok and maybe he'll be a useful player". Nobody's picking him to be a future Brownlow medalist (except maybe me).

I think a big part of that is with the backline relatively strong it makes a defender a less exciting prospect. If he started to show something playing as a wing in the JLT, for instance, you'd probably see more interest even just over a small amount of trial game.

 

[Turbocat]

The optimism for this kid seem to be boundless .. they are really calling in the big guns to pump for his selection

 

[Tackle_happy]

On the opposite end of the spectrum I was bullish about O'Connor making the grade but now I'm not so sure. I simply don't get the fanfare on this board about O'Connor.

O'Connor came into the team and held his own towards the end of the season ... and showed some glimpses of why the MC and Cats hierarchy are bullish about his prospects. His first foray (in 2017) saw him lost at sea, but the forward thinking to ensure he knew what was required and to continue to push himself has seen him now considered as the next in line prospect (potentially better than that even) if one of the other mid size defenders goes down.

I cannot see any reason why he will not continue his upward trend in regards to skill, experience and senior game time. Could be an absolute ripper.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

O'Connor came into the team and held his own towards the end of the season ... and showed some glimpses of why the MC and Cats hierarchy are bullish about his prospects. His first foray (in 2017) saw him lost at sea, but the forward thinking to ensure he knew what was required and to continue to push himself has seen him now considered as the next in line prospect (potentially better than that even) if one of the other mid size defenders goes down.

I cannot see any reason why he will not continue his upward trend in regards to skill, experience and senior game time. Could be an absolute ripper.

Another who missed the point.

 

[candiehappy]

the Blicavs knockers went a bit early

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