Another thread about Varcoe

[Partridge]

Firstly the strike rate of top 10 picks is actually very high. There is the odd dud but mostly they turn out well. Every single No.1 draft pick in the last 10 years has turned out to be a good AFL player.

Secondly the % of good iindigenous players in the AFL compared to % of population is amazing. They make up something like less than 1% of the population.

True, most early draft picks turn into good players - but not all (Tivendale, Fiora, Hilton, Waterhouse). The blind and naive assumption that every high draft pick will be a superstar is what annoys me.

Half the guys you listed I don't rate at all. Fact is most are flankers or forward pockets, in which case as I said I'd take guys like Chapman or Ablett any day.

Varcoe may become a superstar and prove me utterly wrong (I hope he does), but thus far he has displayed nothing. As others have mentioned we can't keep him indefinitely for zero output.

 

[Mooney_d'King]

...He's not injured, so it must indicate that he was not up to scratch. Is this acceptable? ... Don't get me wrong, I want him to succeed, but ATM hes pissing me off.

It's good that you're feeling passionate, but I don't know why it would piss you off. Personally, if he's not ready or good enough, I don't want to see him or hear about him until he proves himself.

It would be nice for him and us if he succeeded, but it doesn't bother me if he doesn't (I know, if that happens we may have wasted a draft pick yada yada yada). With competition so fierce for positions within GFC, you should be glad. Imagine if we were so desparate we had to play him because we had no-one else... Imagine having to draft Kingsley!!

 

[catswhiskers]

I hear what you are saying Partridge. However the indigenous players do not come from a tall or heavy population. They have to be flankers or mids. A good indigenous player with height and body mass is special and they play like it. Goodes is the best recent example and we have our own favourite son who first made No.5 famous. WA supporters will also remember Stephen Michael - a top shelf follower/CHF who preferred his WAFL to the VFL. He regularly represented WA.

The half forward flank/ frward pocket used to be called the "graveyard" it takes real skill like a Bartlett or Daicos or Davey or (I hope) Stokes to make the most of limited opportunities.

Varcoe is more the mid/half back type. I hope he goes well . I am keen to see Bedford hit the VFL too. He makes up for lack of height with a big jump. Lets hope the recruiting staff have got him right too because he will be exciting.

 

[cat_fanatic]

Different players are recruited for different reasons. Indigenous players are typically drafted to either create run out of defence; or hang behind packs to get the crumbs and add flair and style and run all over the ground. Some are soft, receivers, etc I agree, but they have different advantages than guys like chappy. Speed for one can be very uplifting for the team. Seeing Davey burn through the middle of the ground, taking on the opposition and having a bounce is spirit lifting and inspiring and can help turn games around, the indigenous players are experts in this field.

 

[geelong32]

give the kid a break, been in the system one year played bugger all footy for two years and now we expect him to be a producing the goods.

lets wait until the end of the year before we have him on the scrap heap. He had limited game time in the VFl last year, he has played a couple of practise matches this year, and we are wondering what is going on with him.

 

[RememberMe]

It's good that you're feeling passionate, but I don't know why it would piss you off. Personally, if he's not ready or good enough, I don't want to see him or hear about him until he proves himself.

It would be nice for him and us if he succeeded, but it doesn't bother me if he doesn't (I know, if that happens we may have wasted a draft pick yada yada yada). With competition so fierce for positions within GFC, you should be glad. Imagine if we were so desparate we had to play him because we had no-one else... Imagine having to draft Kingsley!!

I get your point, but even so, it is still frustrating. My reasoning behind feeling this way is that if we get nothing out of him, the question must be asked - why? I know he has 'massive wraps', but how much could he have proved by age 16 1/2? Should a club pick up a tiny little kid with a buggered foot, then cradle him for a few years before delisting him? As I have mentioned, I hope he proves me wrong, but with the amount of talent going around, I don't see how a guy like Varcoe can have his hand held for too long... Gotta play a couple of senior games and show something this year.

 

[Sammy D]

Just for the record he didn't make the 28 man squad for Darwin.

 

[RememberMe]

Just for the record he didn't make the 28 man squad for Darwin.

Hmmm.

 

[Asty]

Varcoe may become a superstar and prove me utterly wrong (I hope he does), but thus far he has displayed nothing. As others have mentioned we can't keep him indefinitely for zero output.

owen
tenace
mackie
byrnes

all have been given as much if not more time and have failed to cement spots so I would give varcoe the same opportunity. Last year he had no preseason because of his foot and then suffered some soft tissue injuries (due to lack of preparation).

We already have spencer, gardiner and playfair pencilled in for delisting so we dont need to go overboard at the end of the season unless we flop again in which a few of the "established" players may have their heads on the block as well.

 

[RememberMe]

Just a bit concerned that he couldn't even get picked for a NAB cup game.

 

[Stoney]

First of all, does anyone know why he wasn't picked for the first NAB cup game? He's not injured, so it must indicate that he was not up to scratch. Is this acceptable? Yes, we drafted him young, yes, he had an injury, and yes, he has big wraps on him (ie. Ablett handing down his number), but how long can he do nothing for? Obviously, if he can't even get picked for a NAB cup game, he must not even be in our top 30? Perhaps Thompson is hiding him from the competition to launch him in a big way at the start of the season? Who knows?

I saw him play a few VFL games last year, and he showed glimpses. The club and supporters alike were keen to throw around the excuses... Yeh but, no but, injury, but, no preseason but, but surely if he does nothing this year the excuses can't continue.

I'm fairly sure that he will get picked for this second NAB cup game against Port, and IMO, he must show something. Don't get me wrong, I want him to succeed, but ATM hes pissing me off.

After the bolded sentence I stopped reading as ur obviously being stupid.

He wasnt in our NAB cup sqaud so he musn't be in our top 30? Considering it was our strongest lineup I think that means he wasn't in our best 22 on the weekend - saying he's not in the best 30 is rediculous.

Varcoe will come good - but he'll be a flashy player who goes missing but can then set the world on fire! We'll see him in 07 I garuntee ...

 

[rizzo]

A lot of people are missing some perspective on varcoe here. This is the first time in 2 years he has been able to have an uninterrupted preseason. Let alone he has played *** all games in the last few years.
2005 was when he did his foot and played - 6 games, i cant really remember.
2006 was him getting over his injury. He spent all of the preseason with the medo's (and after the year no wonder he never got to full fitness). He also has hip injuries that plagued his year. Somehow i feel he was under pressure to play given how highly he was rated.

So looking back we may aswell say we have a player who is in his first real season at AFL level. And that being said how many first year players are expected to play senior footy year one??

So before calling him a dud, or ******** canning him. Just realise that we have a brand new bloke on our hands who is still looking to find form and confidence. And anyone who writes this bloke off will be eating humble pie. Because it was the odd flash of brilliance that shows to me that he will be a 150+ gamer for this club.

 

[CF]

let's not forget he is only 18....he has plenty of time to get there and I think the club is right in how they are developing him. You are all impatient as hell. I am confident he will get there and I am hoping to maybe see around 5 games in the seniors for the year. Probably still needs another year mostly in the VFL to keep building up his match fitness.

 

[Asty]

let's not forget he is only 18....he has plenty of time to get there and I think the club is right in how they are developing him. You are all impatient as hell. I am confident he will get there and I am hoping to maybe see around 5 games in the seniors for the year. Probably still needs another year mostly in the VFL to keep building up his match fitness.

The other thing is he might be a little down on confidence after missing so much footy and struggling with injury last year so why not let him build himself up in the magoos. Djerrkura looks like it would take a mac truck or a tank for him to lose confidence.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I remember watching Smithfield vs. some other side in SA.

Varcoe as a 16 year old (I think?) was constantly being chased by about 3-4 opponents when he went on 60-70 meter runs.

 

[tin can sam]

owen
tenace
mackie
byrnes

all have been given as much if not more time and have failed to cement spots so I would give varcoe the same opportunity. Last year he had no preseason because of his foot and then suffered some soft tissue injuries (due to lack of preparation).

We already have spencer, gardiner and playfair pencilled in for delisting so we dont need to go overboard at the end of the season unless we flop again in which a few of the "established" players may have their heads on the block as well.

Mackie has not failed to cement his spot, after his form in the second half of the season, he's an automatic selection in the early games, and IMO will play 22 games this year.

 

[Asty]

Mackie has not failed to cement his spot, after his form in the second half of the season, he's an automatic selection in the early games, and IMO will play 22 games this year.

I re-read what I wrote and it may have come across wrong. In Mackies case I was trying to say that after one year on the list he was not a top 22 player and varcoe should be afforded the same time to develop as he has more raw potential than mackie ever had.

 

[Partridge]

I re-read what I wrote and it may have come across wrong. In Mackies case I was trying to say that after one year on the list he was not a top 22 player and varcoe should be afforded the same time to develop as he has more raw potential than mackie ever had.

Maybe. Interesting that Mackie, Tenace and Varcoe have been all top 10 draft picks - something we haven't had many of. Would be nice to get a star out of them, as all high draft picks are superstars apparently.

 

[catswhiskers]

High draft picks always get good treatment by selectors and those who decide who is to be delisted. Otherwise they are admitting a poor choice. Tradees who go on to main list also get good treatment - same reason.
A 40+ pick has to make a mark right away hence it makes sense to use these on older players(?)

 

[DanA]

It makes sense to give a top 10 draft pick 3+ years to prove himself. That talent doesn't disapear.

Travis Johnson is a classic example of this.

 

[jim boy]

Maybe. Interesting that Mackie, Tenace and Varcoe have been all top 10 draft picks - something we haven't had many of. Would be nice to get a star out of them, as all high draft picks are superstars apparently.

Since when was pick 15 (Varcoe) in the top 10?

Varcoe will have to start showing something this year, but he doesn't need to be an automatic selection just yet.

 

[DBAH0]

Look at the playes selected in that draft (top 20) and how many have made an impact.

1 - Murphy. Gun.
2 - Thomas. Very good player.
3 - Ellis. Yet to play a game.
4 - Kennedy - Shown glimpses.
5 - Pendlebury - Looks like he will come on this season.
6 - Dowler - Played 1 or 2 games for the Hawks late last sason IIRC.
7 - Ryder - Raw.
8 - Oakley - Nicholls - Raw and skinny but has talent. Remember that if he wasn't on the board, Richmond were going to pick Varcoe.
9 - Mitch Clark - Looked alright in his few games.
10 - Drum - Looked ok in a few games.
11 - Higgins - Looked pretty good.
12 - Jones - Ready made midfielder, been alright.
13 - Hurn - Played a couple of games.
14 - Birchall - Bargain pick. Looks good in defence.
15 - Varcoe - Coming off an injury, needs time.

So you can see, it wasn't exactly a "great" draft, especially when you compare to the one we just had.

Hence why you have to keep it in pespective, in terms of if a player was taken in the top 10-15 in a certain year, he may not have in another.

 

[DanA]

Look at the playes selected in that draft (top 20) and how many have made an impact.

1 - Murphy. Gun.
2 - Thomas. Very good player.
3 - Ellis. Yet to play a game.
4 - Kennedy - Shown glimpses.
5 - Pendlebury - Looks like he will come on this season.
6 - Dowler - Played 1 or 2 games for the Hawks late last sason IIRC.
7 - Ryder - Raw.
8 - Oakley - Nicholls - Raw and skinny but has talent. Remember that if he wasn't on the board, Richmond were going to pick Varcoe.
9 - Mitch Clark - Looked alright in his few games.
10 - Drum - Looked ok in a few games.
11 - Higgins - Looked pretty good.
12 - Jones - Ready made midfielder, been alright.
13 - Hurn - Played a couple of games.
14 - Birchall - Bargain pick. Looks good in defence.
15 - Varcoe - Coming off an injury, needs time.

So you can see, it wasn't exactly a "great" draft, especially when you compare to the one we just had.

Hence why you have to keep it in pespective, in terms of if a player was taken in the top 10-15 in a certain year, he may not have in another.

How can you say it wasn't a great draft. That is arguably the best performing draft in its first year ever.

 

[rizzo]

Shouldnt we be more worried about the blokes taken AFTER trav, then the blokes before. We Couldnt of got any of them anyway.

 

[DBAH0]

How can you say it wasn't a great draft. That is arguably the best performing draft in its first year ever.

Are you serious? Besides Murphy, Thomas and maybe Pendlebury, nobody in the top 10 played senior footy for a prolonged period.

Compare it to the draft where Hodge, Judd, Bartel etc. all went top 10 for starters, and this year's draft will be a lot better also.