- Sep 21, 2004
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Another US mass shooting
- Thread starter Malifice
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There were some pretty heavy weapons already around when the document was written. Weapons like a Puckle Gun weren't in common circulation like it's equivalent today, but they writers of the second amendment certainly knew of it, and were also talking about ship armament too. Those are some big guns.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
SErious question has the 2nd amenment actually been used to defy government tyranny? These days defiance is more easily achieved via use of lawyers/ rule of law rather than the rule of gun. And this has to be a good thing. While the 2nd has been used as a defense for the mentally ill to have a right to have guns (as in how dare you restrict my second amendment right just because I am mentally ill) I'd say the second has killed more people than it has freed.
Look I'm not really sure to be honest. You have to take into account the history of why it was written - America had just fought a war against its British overlords to establish sovereignty, so of course that newfound freedom was what framed the constitution and it's subsequent amendments. What's its effects today? Well, I've seen reports that people have stopped gun violence with guns of their own in large numbers, but it's hard to get a bead on just how accurate that is given the person threatening them probably had a weapon thanks to that same amendment, so perhaps it's a self-licking ice-cream in that regard. Maybe not. I think the fact that most western societies don't have the same gun violence problems as the US while still having lawful gun ownership is a clear indicator that the issue is far deeper than just the right to own a firearm.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
Thanks.
I have been trying to find examples using Internet and can't. There are articles about how militias could resist the US army (a la Afghanistan) which is a reasonable proposition. But no examples in the US itself.
Ned_Flanders
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a tax deduction IS the govt paying for it, just at a lesser rate (assuming the deduction is based upon market value - good luck with that)
as for NRA members being hired - cant do that. thats a discriminatory hiring practice that excludes non-members from earning that job
also these guards need to be trained, and have equipment and so on.
here is some math
- USA has 3.6m teachers
- 20% of this is 720,000
- cost of a fire arms training ranged between $200 and $2000 (thanks google) so lets assume $500 per person
- cost of a hand gun is between $300-$1500, so for easy math, lets assume $500
- thats $720m just to arm teachers year one
- with attrition (8% pa in the usa) and annual retraining to maintain certification, thats an ongoing cost of potentially $350m-$400m
This excludes replacing lost guns and litigation
Now the guards!
- 130k schools in the usa
- Security guard cost over $50k pa
- assume 2 per school
- $13b every year, and thats assuming you get away with just 2 per school
Hypothetical.
Teachers get armed/trained. Shooter situation in a school. Gunman, realising teachers are armed, takes out the teacher first, without any prior warning.
sherb
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That's not a hypothetical, that's a certainty!
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I failed at everything I ever did and I want a whole room of impressionable young people who are scared of me to take it out on- so what better career than a High School teacher. Work in the US and I get a free gun too. I wonder how much compensation I'll get paid if I shoot a black kid I thought was armed. U S A! U S A!
Love America, best coffee in the world- just black gunk that gives you pep, none of that chai latte soy crappachino bullshit. Deep dish pizza. Apple Pie, tasty beer and heaps of ******* guns. America is the best.
Love America, best coffee in the world- just black gunk that gives you pep, none of that chai latte soy crappachino bullshit. Deep dish pizza. Apple Pie, tasty beer and heaps of ******* guns. America is the best.
Taylor
Community Leader
- Moderator
- #711
Has anyone ever tried to use their act of gun violence as a political attack on the government?
I'm curious if someone would try and use their right to arms and forming a militia as a legal defence by claiming their act was politically motivated.
I know the USA calls that terrorism and I'm not sure the right to have a militia also protects the actions of that militia
I'm curious if someone would try and use their right to arms and forming a militia as a legal defence by claiming their act was politically motivated.
I know the USA calls that terrorism and I'm not sure the right to have a militia also protects the actions of that militia
King Brown
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What's interesting is how the armed police officer didn't intervene and the FBI didn't act on tip offs. The police failed epically. If you're a patriotic gun nut who supports the boys in blue, you're in a bit of a bind. Either the police are useless, or people need to stop having access to these guns.
- Sep 21, 2004
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Over 100 million gun owners, an economy creating a permanent underclass, lack of mental health facilities, unencumbered access to say s**t on social media.
The FBI is supposed to get all of them?
The FBI is supposed to get all of them?
No reasonable person expects 100% effectiveness. Hard not to wonder how the hell they missed it when there's been several reports and they actually looked into bits and pieces without getting anywhere.
- Sep 21, 2004
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I'd guess they would have 10,000s of these types of reports sitting in their files.
Possibly. They also have a massive budget and it's their job. Gotta ask questions.
What's wrong with a chai latte? They taste nice.
I think McVeigh wanted to try something along those lines, but it wasn't used by his defence team because the argument would have been difficult to push given his actions caused "innocent" casualties.
He used bombs though. It would have been interesting to see if the equipment permissible for use by a "well armed militia" includes homemade bombs.
Father Jack
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Well technically god has just reinterpreted it to mean 'everyone' instead of just 'well regulated militia'.
Just by looking at his face, he seems a cold, callous mofo.
Maggie5
Moderator
- Moderator
- #723
Somber read from a radiologist treating Florida victims (a few extracts).
As I opened the CT scan last week to read the next case, I was baffled. The history simply read “gunshot wound.” I have been a radiologist in one of the busiest trauma centers in the nation for 13 years, and have diagnosed thousands of handgun injuries to the brain, lung, liver, spleen, bowel, and other vital organs. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know about gunshot wounds, but the specific pattern of injury on my computer screen was one that I had seen only once before.
I was looking at a CT scan of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle which delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. There was nothing left to repair, and utterly, devastatingly, nothing that could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.
The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun.
As I opened the CT scan last week to read the next case, I was baffled. The history simply read “gunshot wound.” I have been a radiologist in one of the busiest trauma centers in the nation for 13 years, and have diagnosed thousands of handgun injuries to the brain, lung, liver, spleen, bowel, and other vital organs. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know about gunshot wounds, but the specific pattern of injury on my computer screen was one that I had seen only once before.
I was looking at a CT scan of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle which delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. There was nothing left to repair, and utterly, devastatingly, nothing that could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.
The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun.
Chicago1
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Perhaps Archie's idea about preventing skyjackings could be used in American schools. Maybe lending a gun to every student and teacher each day might work.
Ned_Flanders
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annoying, but historically not completely wrong.
was googling to see who drafted it (was madison for the most part), but read this on Quora
"That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law." appears in the English Bill of Rights of 1689. These Protestants would be the group from which the Pilgrims came, who departed England for the New World in 1620 after years of persecution by the English crown. Seventy years later, it was becoming appreciated that they had a right to not be disarmed by the king or queen.
It is believed that when it was written, the English didn't see it as granting any right, rather seeking to preserve a 'natural' right that all humans have, which is to be able to defend themselves from attack by aggressors.
So again its ****ed up puritans and their dumb arse s**t
