sherb
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Your only concern with a graphic showing the prevalence of mass shootings was how the source defined mass shootings.
Another US mass shooting
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- Jul 5, 2011
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Look at the threads here and see how misled people were. All I did was provide context: most mass shootings are not random killings of innocent people, they are targeted gangland shootings. That doesn't make it ok or make these people's lives not have worth, but most mass shootings are against people who are criminals who shoot back, not school kids etc.
If Americans want to create policy to decrease gun violence, they should be equipped with all the facts, not with distorted emotive dribble such as what CNN offer.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
In order to “capture “ gang shooting what would your mass shooting definition be?
1 death? (Probably not this would be gun related suicide)
2 death ?
Or 4 or more injured even if no death? (This may be closer I don’t know)
- Jul 5, 2011
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My understanding is that Australia considers a mass shooting to involve 4 or more deaths (not injuries, deaths). I think that is a fair definition. Something that largely stopped since the Howard gun regulation era (we've still had at least one since).
Regarding gang violence, the FBI choose to exclude these incidents as "active shooter" or "mass shooting" events. I think this is probably appropriate, as to me a "mass shooting" = a shooting involving innocent, non consenting victims. If CNN wish to include these in their stats, then they need to be transparent about these facts, rather than trying to whip up fear and outrage.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
Sorry I had misunderstood what you had earlier meant about definitions. For mine I would include gang death in stats. Death is death after all. Then can put out stats on how many incidents and deaths are gang vs not gang.
Not reporting a problem makes it hard to address it.
Mass shootings only make a small amount of the deaths from guns in the US. Even homicides only make up about 35% of gun related deaths, suicides make up the largest percentage while the remainder are accidents or law enforcement. Approx. 35,000-40,000 souls a year are lost to guns in the US. Perhaps the most horrifying fact is that gun deaths are the second commonest cause of death of children in the US.
The homicide rate is 0.89 per 100,000 here and in the US it is 4.89 per 100,000 leading to total yearly numbers of 222 murders here and 16,214 yearly in the US. These are 2018 figures.
Homicides due to guns in the US in 2018 - 13,958. If you remove those from the 16,214 total murder rate you are left with 2256 deaths from non gun homicide which is about x10 our rate, now it's in the ball park with our homicide rate given the US has about 13x the population.
Gun violence is even worse when you consider homicides only make up about 35% of gun related deaths. More than half of the all suicides are with guns.
The USA murder rate is well documented as being around 4 - 5x that of Australia, the incarceration rate is also 5x ours (land of the free!) and as I said longevity of males is about 5 years longer. Makes it easy to remember these disturbing facts - rule of 5's, it means I can trot them out easily to my American friend during argument. I wonder how much the reduction in US life expectancy is due to gun deaths, though it's a complex, multifactorial issue and I don't have the stats to work it out.
The homicide rate is 0.89 per 100,000 here and in the US it is 4.89 per 100,000 leading to total yearly numbers of 222 murders here and 16,214 yearly in the US. These are 2018 figures.
Homicides due to guns in the US in 2018 - 13,958. If you remove those from the 16,214 total murder rate you are left with 2256 deaths from non gun homicide which is about x10 our rate, now it's in the ball park with our homicide rate given the US has about 13x the population.
Gun violence is even worse when you consider homicides only make up about 35% of gun related deaths. More than half of the all suicides are with guns.
The USA murder rate is well documented as being around 4 - 5x that of Australia, the incarceration rate is also 5x ours (land of the free!) and as I said longevity of males is about 5 years longer. Makes it easy to remember these disturbing facts - rule of 5's, it means I can trot them out easily to my American friend during argument. I wonder how much the reduction in US life expectancy is due to gun deaths, though it's a complex, multifactorial issue and I don't have the stats to work it out.
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Talking about suicide, the US rate is slightly lower than several European countries, slightly higher than Australia's.
I support gun control measures, but I don't believe that they have an impact on suicide rates. I recall seeing a comedian who said "I once tried to kill myself... As you can see, I didn't try very hard". There's always an easy way to end ones life at any moment. So whilst I support gun control, I believe that lowering the suicide rate can be achieved more effectively with funding for mental health care.
Suicide Rate by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
I think they probably do because a certain number have a large 'impulsive' element to them and a gun provides an easy way for them to act on that impulse. IIRC 60% of US suicides are with guns, I don't believe all those people would have committed suicide without easy access to a weapon. Can I give you any data, no. It's a hunch. After my wife bolted a few years ago, I felt suicidal to some extent. I would stand at the tram stop in Bridge rd and as the tram came up I would think "I could stop the terrible pain by just falling in front of the tram". I fear if I had a gun in the house perhaps I would have done it. Glad I didn't.
Suicide is a terrible thing especially for those who remain. At around the same time, I had a close 40 yo friend suicide, in an organised and planned way using helium and a suicide hood. Some months later her ex suicided. The ripples in the pond extend widely.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
There also is a rate beyond which the rate cannot be lower- and it is not zero.
- Jul 5, 2011
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I'm sorry to hear about your pain, I've certainly been there too. The stats that I found just now actually do indicate a sharp decline when gun control was Implemented here, so perhaps I'm wrong. They are increasing again, but I'd read in the past that gun control here did nothing to stop them, when it seems like perhaps they did.
Even Johnny Howard used the misleading stat "suicide by firearms have gone down since I implemented gun control", rather than stating that suicides in total had gone down, which appears to have been the case.
It looks like they increase the most when economic times are bad, so I shudder to think what the Covid era stats will be.
Suicide Rate by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
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What gives you that idea? Gangland mass shootings are often 'drive by' style shootings (not raging gun fights), and the victims are in fact often (mainly even) school kids out on the corner selling drugs.
You're trying to sell a narrative that 'CNN and the MSM' doesnt report these because they have some kind of leftist agenda to minimise these killings, when the reality is if they did have some kind of leftist agenda, these shootings would be reported more (to bring the issue into focus).
Inner city gang violence isn't reported in the USA because they're just so used to it and desensitized to it. There is nothing nefarious going on with 'the MSM'. It's just that mainstream America doesnt give a s**t about those kinds of mass shootings. They're rapidly getting there with other mass shootings as well.
There is no difference really. It's always an angry young man with an agenda, and a semi automatic weapon, going out and blowing a lot of people away.
We have gangs in Oz too, but luckily we also have social security to minimize the desperation brought by absolute poverty (and thus lower violent crime), and near impossible to obtain semi-automatic firearms.
The Yanks have absolutely gotten this wrong, and only right wing Seppo Republicans think otherwise, with the rest off the world looking on in horror.
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Here's some homicide stats. Never mind top 10, the US barely make the top 100. They get a lot of attention because their news generates clicks worldwide.
Murder Rate by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia
I'm not sure why the FBI don't consider gangland shootings to count as "live shooter events" or "mass killings", but a bit of perspective is helpful.
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Lol. Check out the list of other countries rounding out the top 100. Not exactly esteemed company.
The Yanks are above Sudan, Cuba, Kazakhstan, Pakistan and Somalia in Homicides (among other nations), and nearly 500 percent higher than the UK, and 600 percent higher than Oz, two very similar countries.
The Yanks sit at over 5 people per 100,000, while the rest of the developed world hovers around or mainly under 1 per 100,000.
Here is the list of countries by firearm related death, where the USA is 9th (and well above Uruguay, Panama, Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua) at 12.21 deaths per 100,000 annually, compared to Australia at 0.88 and the UK at 0.2.
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia
It's utter madness that Sandy Hook or Columbine, or Vegas can happen, and they do next to nothing to stop it happening again.
Linda_Lovelace
Cancelled
Lot of guns in the USA and sales are at very high levels.
247wallst.com
U.S. gun sales in the first four months of 2021 surged 31% to 15,966,389. This makes it among the largest figures since sales started to be recorded in 1998.
The increase is part of a trend. Gun sales in the United States rose 40% last year to 39,695,315. That represents the high water mark in annual gun sales since the current record-keeping system went into effect. Increases by state in April and for the first four months varied substantially, as has been the case for years.
This Is the State Where People Bought the Most Guns
This state has only 4% of the population but accounted for 27% of gun sales through the first four months of this year.
247wallst.com
U.S. gun sales in the first four months of 2021 surged 31% to 15,966,389. This makes it among the largest figures since sales started to be recorded in 1998.
The increase is part of a trend. Gun sales in the United States rose 40% last year to 39,695,315. That represents the high water mark in annual gun sales since the current record-keeping system went into effect. Increases by state in April and for the first four months varied substantially, as has been the case for years.
Schneebly11
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Lot of guns in the USA and sales are at very high levels.
This Is the State Where People Bought the Most Guns
This state has only 4% of the population but accounted for 27% of gun sales through the first four months of this year.
U.S. gun sales in the first four months of 2021 surged 31% to 15,966,389. This makes it among the largest figures since sales started to be recorded in 1998.
The increase is part of a trend. Gun sales in the United States rose 40% last year to 39,695,315. That represents the high water mark in annual gun sales since the current record-keeping system went into effect. Increases by state in April and for the first four months varied substantially, as has been the case for years.
I watch a lot of firearm videos on Youtube (I like guns, despite desiring them to be kept out of civilian hands) and all my recent 'YT Recommendations' have all been about 'Biden and the Democrats are going to reinstate the Assault Weapons ban/ ban silencers and suppressors etc etc etc' and urging people to go out and buy more guns.
Of course the reality is, Biden cant touch firearms legislation (despite the NRA filing for bankruptcy) because it would see him smashed in the mid-terms, and the Democrats lack the political balls to go all in on firearms.
Such a crazy crazy country.
Linda_Lovelace
Cancelled
And yet they create amazing stuff. Its almost like the chaos leads to creativity but for all the crazy stuff they are still a very free people and free people tend be far more creative than the oppressed.
- Jul 13, 2015
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You think Communists are more creative than Capitalists ?
Linda_Lovelace
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List the inventions of the Soviet Union or China v the USA. When you have finished listening to your Chinese music, I'd be interested in your rely.
It is an interesting take on creativity on freedom or oppression. Significant components of American music came from oppression (though not political ideologies as you have expanded upon).
- Oct 4, 2016
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creative or a good or devious way?
there was quite some speculation awhile back that the biggest stumbling block to greater gun regulation in the usa -the nra - were in big financial trouble. if that's so it gives me some hope.
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Category:Soviet inventions - Wikipedia
Science and technology in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
Soviet Russia had a population of half that of the USA, had just endured 3 years of brutal scorched earth war with Germany costing 10's of millions of lives, and were mostly living an agrarian pre-industrial society 10 years prior to the war (pre Marxism).
They still managed to be the second country to develop nukes, and the first to put a satellite and a man in space (despite the Americans benefitting from European war refugees like Albert Einstein or German scientists such as Von Braun abducted during Operation Paperclip.
And thats just in the sciences, let alone the Arts. There have been plenty of Russian physicists, artists, musicians, biologists, chemists etc.
This isn't an endorsement of Communism mind you. I'm just not seeing how creativeness can be correlated with 'freedom'.
- Jul 13, 2015
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Theoretical physics isnt inventing, nor is being the 2nd to do something. 1st satellite and man in space is something, but again what the US did with space was more important.
Our population was a fraction or the USSR but our inventions would match or beat for usefulness.
