Society/Culture Another woman has murdered another kid

Remove this Banner Ad

Nov 8, 2016
2,058
3,429
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
If that Adelaide woman had just driven to Victoria and managed to kill the baby or leave it severely disabled she would have had the privilege of getting no jail time AND having her identity hidden to not have any public judgement following her.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...l/news-story/415ec0a11d0f39bc35226a0cfdc8f298
A MUM who killed one of her twin baby girls and left the other severely disabled will not spend any time in jail.
The woman, 39, pleaded guilty to infanticide over the death of her eight-week-old daughter and recklessly causing serious injury to the baby’s sister.

Infanticide applies for mothers suffering a mental disturbance caused by childbirth, and carries a maximum jail term of five years.

She can’t be named, despite the father of the babies urging the court to lift a suppression order on her identity.

The father said he wanted the order lifted so he could talk openly about his lost daughter, who had “just disappeared”.

He also wants to raise much-needed funds for the surviving twin, he told the court in a statement.


But the Supreme Court heard that identifying the woman would not be in the best interests of her surviving children.

Justice Bernard Bongiorno refused to lift the ban on publishing the names or pictures of the woman and the twins.

The twins’ father, who was not present at two previous court hearings because he was at hospital appointments with his daughter, cried as the mother was sentenced to a community corrections order for one year.

Outside court, the twins’ paternal uncle — wearing a doubled-over pink lapel ribbon — said the sentence was “manifestly inadequate”.

The father had asked the judge to “please hand down justice for my daughters,” in a moving victim impact statement read to the court.

He said he was now acting as both mother and father to the couple’s older child and surviving daughter, who could not walk or talk as a result of permanent brain damage suffered at the hands of her mother.

The court heard the surviving children — the twin girl and a boy aged four — lived with their father, but their mother was still a legal guardian.

Justice Bongiorno said the father was awoken by noises made by his distressed, pale and limp baby girl, who stopped breathing, in the early hours of April 26, 2012.
Incredibly sad story.
 
Last edited:
Nov 8, 2016
2,058
3,429
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
21272582_10155561871028444_1769427399527696220_n.jpg
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Apr 24, 2013
81,024
153,170
Arden Street Hill
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Essendon Lawn Bowls Club
I would like to see Australia go down the path of house arrest for non violent crimes (unless a repeat offender).


I think this will eventually happen.

I want all violent crims locked up.

Consideration needs to be given to crimes of passion (Come home, find the missus in bed with your best mate, etc.).
 
Consideration needs to be given to crimes of passion (Come home, find the missus in bed with your best mate, etc.).
+ self-defence only being regarded as a mitigating factor where it's deemed a resident has gone too far against an intruder.
 
Apr 24, 2013
81,024
153,170
Arden Street Hill
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Essendon Lawn Bowls Club
+ self-defence only being regarded as a mitigating factor where it's deemed a resident has gone too far against an intruder.

Self defence is a VERY hard defence to make out in a court room.

The state prefers that your life is expendable, rather than let citizens encroach on it's monopoly on violence.
 
Aug 21, 2016
15,619
24,590
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham
If that Adelaide woman had just driven to Victoria and managed to kill the baby or leave it severely disabled she would have had the privilege of getting no jail time AND having her identity hidden to not have any public judgement following her.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...l/news-story/415ec0a11d0f39bc35226a0cfdc8f298

Incredibly sad story.

The twins’ father, who was not present at two previous court hearings because he was at hospital appointments with his daughter, cried as the mother was sentenced to a community corrections order for one year.

There is absolutely no way a father who had killed his child would be treated in this manner.
 
Oct 7, 2003
19,510
24,007
Lubyanka Square
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Red Devil Sport Club
The twins’ father, who was not present at two previous court hearings because he was at hospital appointments with his daughter, cried as the mother was sentenced to a community corrections order for one year.

There is absolutely no way a father who had killed his child would be treated in this manner.
Now the woman in Adelaide is bragging that she will have joint custody within a year

She should be in jail,also tubal ligation surgery before release
 

RupieDupie

Guru
Jun 30, 2017
4,228
3,499
AFL Club
GWS
Single mothers are high risk areas for abuse and heavily disproportionately represented.

There are a number of factors associated with risk of abuse of children and single mothers unfortunately tick many of those boxes.

The stay at home mother thing is different. If one parent spends an extra 3-4 hours with the kids on school days before the other parent returns from work that does not necessarily indicate that they will be more likely to abuse the children than the other parent. In fact opposite can be true if the working parent is facing more stresses in their life. At the same time the isolation of the stay at home parent may alter their mental state. You will not find a study that relates abuse to "hours spent with the child" despite a poster on this site that desperately tries to defect with a metric like that(and fail to provide sources).

Here are some reasons stated by the mayo clinic website.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/child-abuse/basics/risk-factors/con-20033789

A detailed list of risk factors and protective factors (factors that are associated with reduced incidences of child abuse and neglect) is provided by this government website.
https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/risk-and-protective-factors-child-abuse-and-neglect

Table 1: Commonly cited risk factors for child abuse and neglect
Ecological level

Risk factors

Sources: Black, Smith Slep & Heyman, 2001; Brown, Cohen, Johnson, & Salzinger, 1998; Clément, Bérubé & Chamberland, 2016; Dubowitz et al., 2011; Forston, Klevens, Merrick, Gilbert & Alexander, 2016; Freisthler, Merrit & LaScala 2006; Li et al., 2011; Palusci, 2011; Putnam-Hornstein & Needell, 2011; Shook Slack et al., 2011; Stith et al., 2009 Wu et al., 2004)

▪ Individual child factors

  • low birth weight
  • pregnancy or birth complications
  • child temperament or behaviour
  • child disability
Family/parental factors

  • parental substance abuse
  • involvement in criminal behaviour
  • family conflict or violence
  • mental health problems
  • child perceived as problem by parents
  • history of child abuse and neglect
  • large family size
  • exposure to stress
  • parental temperament
  • teenage/young parent/s
  • single or unmarried parents
  • low level of parental education
  • use of corporal punishment
  • unplanned pregnancy
  • physical health problems
  • low self-esteem
  • social isolation
Social/environment factors

  • socio-economic disadvantage
  • parental unemployment
  • housing stress
  • lack of access to social support
  • lack of pre-natal care
  • neighbourhood disadvantage
  • neighbourhood violence



Table 2: Protective factors for reducing the incidence of child abuse and neglect
Ecological level

Protective factors

Sources: Black et al., 2001; Brown et al., 1998; Clément et al., 2016; Dubowitz et al., 2011; Forston, Klevens, Merrick, Gilbert & Alexander, 2016; Freisthler et al., 2006; Li et al., 2011; Palusci, 2011; Shook Slack et al., 2011; Stith et al., 2009

Individual/child factors

  • social and emotional competence
  • attachment to parent/s
Family/parental factors

  • strong parent/child relationship
  • parental self-esteem
  • family cohesion
  • two-parent household
  • high level of parental education
  • self-efficacy
  • family functioning
  • knowledge of parenting and child development
  • parental resilience
  • concrete support for parents
Social/environmental factors

  • positive social connection and support
  • employment
  • neighbourhood social capital
  • adequate housing
  • socio-economically advantaged neighbourhood
  • access to health and social services

I think you are inadvertently arguing against your conclusion.

For example, you have presented statistics on domestic violence, including that of all intimate partner domestic homicides, 75% are committed by males against their female partner.

Then you have also presented that single mothers are more likely to be the perpetrator in a domestic homicide against children. But along with this you have given possible reasons why the perpetrator may commit the offence, including, domestic violence, isolation, employment, low socioeconomic status etc (which all may be related to the circumstances of a single parent). And that in a large number of single parent households the mother usually falls into the category of the single parent (skewing the parent distribution with the circumstances which are more likely to increase the incidence).

But your conclusion, from what I can understand, is that women (in a case by case basis) tend to have lenient sentences in these matters relative to men, as they are somewhat presented as 'victims'. But haven't you also made this argument? That their circumstances have increased the likelihood of this outcome and that a judge would have to take this into account?


As an aside and nothing to do with your post and not to bang on about something, that seems totally unrelated, but suppose if a society really cared about these issues and they had, say, an extra $120 million floating around, would this society give extra parental and mental welfare support to single parents?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

RupieDupie

Guru
Jun 30, 2017
4,228
3,499
AFL Club
GWS
Here's another way to look at this,

Suppose there was a sadistic brute who decided to make a social experiment one day, knowing exactly what the outcome would be. In this experiment they deliberately put 100,000 people in a circumstance which would increase the probability that a child would die. Yet at any time, with a flick of their wrist, the sadistic brute could stop this experiment.

Even though the person who carries out the act that leads to a child's death is going to be one of the people within the population of 100,000, and is not going to be the sadistic brute, who is the criminal in this scenario?
 

Ruck Machine

Premiership Player
May 14, 2007
3,037
1,328
Reality
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Utah Jazz
Even though the person who carries out the act that leads to a child's death is going to be one of the people within the population of 100,000, and is not going to be the sadistic brute, who is the criminal in this scenario?

The person who killed the child is the criminal... Stop trying to make excuses for violent women.
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
I think you are inadvertently arguing against your conclusion.

For example, you have presented statistics on domestic violence, including that of all intimate partner domestic homicides, 75% are committed by males against their female partner.

Then you have also presented that single mothers are more likely to be the perpetrator in a domestic homicide against children. But along with this you have given possible reasons why the perpetrator may commit the offence, including, domestic violence, isolation, employment, low socioeconomic status etc (which all may be related to the circumstances of a single parent). And that in a large number of single parent households the mother usually falls into the category of the single parent (skewing the parent distribution with the circumstances which are more likely to increase the incidence).

But your conclusion, from what I can understand, is that women (in a case by case basis) tend to have lenient sentences in these matters relative to men, as they are somewhat presented as 'victims'. But haven't you also made this argument? That their circumstances have increased the likelihood of this outcome and that a judge would have to take this into account?


As an aside and nothing to do with your post and not to bang on about something, that seems totally unrelated, but suppose if a society really cared about these issues and they had, say, an extra $120 million floating around, would this society give extra parental and mental welfare support to single parents?
isolation, employment, socioeconomic status are no excuses for killing children. The fact that people in those groups are more likely to do so does not explain causation and even if it did it wouldnt be an excuse anyway.
 

RupieDupie

Guru
Jun 30, 2017
4,228
3,499
AFL Club
GWS
isolation, employment, socioeconomic status are no excuses for killing children. The fact that people in those groups are more likely to do so does not explain causation and even if it did it wouldnt be an excuse anyway.

I'm not arguing that isolation, employment, socioeconomic status excuses a person for killing their children, but if a poster is using these factors to support their argument, that single women are more likely to kill their children, cannot a judge use the same factors in support of a relatively lenient sentence?
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
I'm not arguing that isolation, employment, socioeconomic status excuses a person for killing their children, but if a poster is using these factors to support their argument, that single women are more likely to kill their children, cannot a judge use the same factors in support of a relatively lenient sentence?
Some would argue its the opposite. Groups who are more prone to commit heinous crimes need to be punished more to create a a stronger deterrent.
 

RupieDupie

Guru
Jun 30, 2017
4,228
3,499
AFL Club
GWS
Some would argue its the opposite. Groups who are more prone to commit heinous crimes need to be punished more to create a a stronger deterrent.

Wouldn't the easier and better deterrent be to mitigate the factors that lead to the crime?
 

Proud SJW

Cancelled
Aug 27, 2011
3,147
3,357
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
It's not really ironic at all.

People like Clementine Ford make their income pushing a particular agenda. If she was seen to backtrack on that, she could potentially lose her livelihood. She probably doesn't really care about people that much, but she found a niche to carve out for herself.
I think you'll find she genuinely believes everything she has said, and everything she believes she believes in.

Never assume that the receipt of validation makes your premise valid.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back