Another year of bedding in the new players

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Sep 29, 2009
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Belgrave
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I wonder if they have studied if the King Coil is better than the Sealy ..surely the influential players are given a posturepedic to ensure their influence is supported in a correct manor .. although plenty say one can not afford to be supportive and if players have a history of lying a certain way in established teams then perhaps they may not be flexible enough to blend in .... ;)
King Coil, Sealy, it doesn't matter. Everyone has to move over, and there are only so many pillows. The snoring of some can be ruinous. :p
 
May 18, 2016
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not a traditional top up but a mature age player like Menegola and Stewart

given our situation I'd rather we recruit 18/19yo players and not guys who are 23 (if they are much more talented then fair enough, but not your average battler)
It takes years for players to develop though. So a mature ager is skipping the first couple of years where a draftee is mostly playing vfl.
 

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cynical

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Dec 18, 2009
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of course they don't though... there would be an average something like 3 years imo that players being drafted last in the system. Any player that give you a 100 games is an outrageous success yet it could be 100 Murdoch games.. I love the idea of drafting kids.. I hope young Brownless gives 300 games .. but Menegola probably will be one of the best outcomes of games in recent years even though he was not 18 when we drafted him

Murdoch got 100 games because we aren't developing enough kids, we are trying to make finals.

Menegola isn't a success, he is a problem, basically he is Murdoch of the midfield. Just a mediocre player stuck in a prime position stifling development.

Those kind of players are fine when the team is full of guns in their prime and you are contending.

But we aren't now and we need to develop new guns.

Not going to develop enough guns who are going to peak at the same time if we keep getting mature agers.

Of course 100 games of Menegola is a better output than your average draftee but Menegola types dont win you flags they turn you into North.
 

Max Milburn

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 10, 2018
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Murdoch got 100 games because we aren't developing enough kids, we are trying to make finals.

Menegola isn't a success, he is a problem, basically he is Murdoch of the midfield. Just a mediocre player stuck in a prime position stifling development.

Those kind of players are fine when the team is full of guns in their prime and you are contending.

But we aren't now and we need to develop new guns.

Not going to develop enough guns who are going to peak at the same time if we keep getting mature agers.

Of course 100 games of Menegola is a better output than your average draftee but Menegola types dont win you flags they turn you into North.
Murdoch was a kid we developed. He was not a mature-aged recruit. He may not have turned out to be as good as we would have liked but I don't see how it fits your argument.
 

cynical

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Dec 18, 2009
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It takes years for players to develop though. So a mature ager is skipping the first couple of years where a draftee is mostly playing vfl.

A draftee is learning the game style and the players in the team for 2-3 years, so if he makes it he is far more valuable because he has that behind him. Will have a much stronger bond to the players and the club also.

The main problem is list peaking, if you have a good group of kids your list will peak much higher than getting mature agers all the time.

Ideally you add the mature agers when you have that great bunch of kids then you have a large group around the same age.

We dont have a great bunch of kids so adding mature agers just keeps our list being old.
 

cynical

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Dec 18, 2009
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Murdoch was a kid we developed. He was not a mature-aged recruit. He may not have turned out to be as good as we would have liked but I don't see how it fits your argument.

Murdoch got 100 games because we were trying to make finals for so long.

If we weren't trying to make finals he'd have been moved on because you dont need the depth.

He basically got lucky in that all our small forwards were injury prone so he continue to got games, when he should have been replaced.

Not going to replace a 5/10 player with a developing 3/10 player when you are trying to make finals.

When you are rebuilding the list you dump the 5/10 players because they are capped, you bring in the 2/10 or 3/10 players and hope they become 7+/10 players in 3 years or so.
 

Max Milburn

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 10, 2018
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A draftee is learning the game style and the players in the team for 2-3 years, so if he makes it he is far more valuable because he has that behind him. Will have a much stronger bond to the players and the club also.

The main problem is list peaking, if you have a good group of kids your list will peak much higher than getting mature agers all the time.

Ideally you add the mature agers when you have that great bunch of kids then you have a large group around the same age.

We dont have a great bunch of kids so adding mature agers just keeps our list being old.
You make great points. Like most things in life it's all about balance.
I'm not certain we are getting that balance wrong.
I like our current young players and see some real talent there.
And I don't think they are missing out on game time.
 

Max Milburn

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Aug 10, 2018
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Murdoch got 100 games because we were trying to make finals for so long.

If we weren't trying to make finals he'd have been moved on because you dont need the depth.

He basically got lucky in that all our small forwards were injury prone so he continue to got games, when he should have been replaced.

Not going to replace a 5/10 player with a developing 3/10 player when you are trying to make finals.

When you are rebuilding the list you dump the 5/10 players because they are capped, you bring in the 2/10 or 3/10 players and hope they become 7+/10 players in 3 years or so.
Not sure I agree entirely.
Murdoch is a disappointment, for sure. But he also kept showing glimpses of taking the next step.
Anyway, at least we tried to "develop" him.
As for making finals, I'm sorry, but I am one of "those" who thinks we should be busting our arses to make finals every year.
I'm not interested in losing games of footy.
 

cynical

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Dec 18, 2009
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You make great points. Like most things in life it's all about balance.
I'm not certain we are getting that balance wrong.
I like our current young players and see some real talent there.
And I don't think they are missing out on game time.

it's not about balance, we are in competition with 17 other teams

balance means you finish in the middle or slightly above the middle

you need to try and peak the list high enough to have a shot at winning a flag, not peak it so you lose prelims
 

Max Milburn

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Aug 10, 2018
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it's not about balance, we are in competition with 17 other teams

balance means you finish in the middle or slightly above the middle

you need to try and peak the list high enough to have a shot at winning a flag, not peak it so you lose prelims
I think you are misinterpreting my use of the word balance.
Would you rather have an unbalanced list?
By that I mean a list with too many young kids or too many old campaigners.
You also need the right balance of jets and reliable work horses. Inside players and outside players. Talls and shorts.
Surely you can't disagree with that?
And you simply cannot win a flag without making finals.
No matter how you spin it, this is an immutable fact.
 
I wonder if they have studied if the King Coil is better than the Sealy ..surely the influential players are given a posturepedic to ensure their influence is supported in a correct manor .. although plenty say one can not afford to be supportive and if players have a history of lying a certain way in established teams then perhaps they may not be flexible enough to blend in .... ;)
If they can live in a manor, not too many worries
 
Oct 20, 2004
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Every year I'm seeing new influential players coming in. Fully established players that have a history of playing in established teams, a certain way.

Window closed again. Great if you collect footy cards, but.
That's a bit over the top. West Coast won a flag with Vardy in the side. Richmond won a flag with Caddy, Prestia and Nankervis in their first year at the Tiges. Having established players joining the club generally makes you a better side.
 

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Sep 29, 2009
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Belgrave
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That's a bit over the top. West Coast won a flag with Vardy in the side. Richmond won a flag with Caddy, Prestia and Nankervis in their first year at the Tiges. Having established players joining the club generally makes you a better side.
Vardy is the perfect example of how to do it. We introduce Ablett, and Duncan goes off the boil. We get in Danger, and the whole midfield goes back to square one.
 
Vardy is the perfect example of how to do it. We introduce Ablett, and Duncan goes off the boil. We get in Danger, and the whole midfield goes back to square one.
Duncan has been off the boil even earlier. 17 was ok. In general, he is disappointing for somebody touted as an A grader.
 
Vardy is the perfect example of how to do it. We introduce Ablett, and Duncan goes off the boil. We get in Danger, and the whole midfield goes back to square one.
Vardy and Caddy are really the examples of opportunism. Right place, right time. Nothing more. Hamling at Dogs too. Good contributions buoyed by a great team performance, with fitness ad things just falling into place at the right time.
Given that nobody realistically has selected the last 3 GF winners at the start of those respective seasons, anything is possible next year.
 
Oct 20, 2004
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Vardy is the perfect example of how to do it. We introduce Ablett, and Duncan goes off the boil. We get in Danger, and the whole midfield goes back to square one.
I reckon the Dangerfield example is a bit much - we were getting beaten up in the middle from well before 2016.

The Ablett example is reasonable, though. It was the wrong recruit - we didn't need another attack-minded midfielder, we really need a goalkicking half-forward or a clearance-based mid.
 
Nov 7, 2010
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I think he remains amazingly underrated on here. His 2017 was excellent. He was still very good this year, but for some reason he's always marked incredibly harshly.
Duncan is a quiet achieve,he has games where I don't notice him only to find out later he had 30+.
 

ATSAM

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Mar 6, 2009
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Vardy is the perfect example of how to do it. We introduce Ablett, and Duncan goes off the boil. We get in Danger, and the whole midfield goes back to square one.
Well Ablett should have been played across the forward line-HFF or pocket. That way Duncan could have regained some mid field play although Dangerfield does tend to take over.
 

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