Ansett and deregulation

[Tiger_Of_Old]

so you think the mutli nationals can come in and buy a company pick it to the bone then run?and who allowed this to occur the goverment.there are huge ramifications with the fall of ansett 16000 employees from ansett let alone other industrys who provide ansett with things like food etc etc etc etc.the aviation industry is one of the important industrys in australia and for the government to come out and say its a private company there is nothing we can do is a cop out.

 

[Satay Mat]

Originally posted by tiger_of_old
so you think the mutli nationals can come in and buy a company pick it to the bone then run?and who allowed this to occur the goverment.there are huge ramifications with the fall of ansett 16000 employees from ansett let alone other industrys who provide ansett with things like food etc etc etc etc.the aviation industry is one of the important industrys in australia and for the government to come out and say its a private company there is nothing we can do is a cop out.

nonsense !!!

tell me where Air NZ picked it to the bone...they are stuffed themselves....the airline industry is incredibly competitive and if your cost structure is wrong then you are stuffed completely. You either need to be huge (BA, KLM/Northwest, United) or Niche, or small and low cost....Ansett was small and high cost and so is Air NZ....propping them up is mad !

The government can set a regulatory framework and legislate as to how foreign investment can occur....but stepping into an individual company is beyond the scope of government.

Satay Mat

 

[Pessimistic]

John Howard Today

"The proposition of the opposition that we should fund the operation of the company for another two weeks is monumentally irresponsible," Mr Howard told reporters in Canberra.

""We've been told that it would cost between $120 and $170 million to keep the company operating until tomorrow evening.

"Where do you stop? Do you fund for a period of two weeks every other company that goes into financial difficulty? Plainly, that is not the solution."

Him and some of you totally miss the point.

Its part of the transport infrastructure of this company. It doesn't make buscuits. Clearly ansetts competitors only have barely 50% of the assets to take up the slack.

It took an act of gross terrorism to stop the US airline system - we have done it ourselves.

We don't wan to bail out the company but the transition to whatever (qantas with more planes) could have been managed a whole lot better.

Beasley has said the would have done something. Howard is too busy watching the cnn and the polls

And call me cynical but why shut down when there is blanket 24-hour news about the USA - they suck !

 

[Pessimistic]

Originally posted by Satay Mat


how can the buck stop with the government ? Why is it the government's responsibility at all ? The owners...yes....unions...yes....management yes.....workers...yes but what did the government do ?

Please tell me which companies you think it is the government's responsibility to ensure they do not go out the door backwards. Oil Companies ? Green Grocers ? One Tel ? Ma & Pa Milk Bar ? The government has nothing to do with it. If Ansett is not viable (for whatever reason, then it is not viable...full stop. Artificial propping up by Canberra is a false dawn and a waste of money.

Satay Mat (centre Right)

Then why have a transport minister ? Why have a government ?

The trains in melbourne stop tomorrow and its nothing to do with the state government ? I think not.

 

[Satay Mat]

nope...still disagree Pess....

$120M is big bikkies for a couple of days...Ansett have assets....they have planes and terminal space and slots in flight schedules....they have an administrator who needs to get a deal...


Prediction....


Singapore Airlines, Virgin Blue, someone will buy Ansett....Virgin Blue could increase its planes tomorrow just by reaching an agreeement with the administrator to lease Ansett's planes (or buy them)....we may have to suffer some inconvenience and it could cost the country some money is lost productivity etc but you come out the other side much healthier than if the government simply propped up Ansett and injected cash for it to burn.

16,000 is a lot and it is not....I do not live in Australia anymore but when I left there were about 700,000 unemployed....why doesn't the government set up shelf companies and pay them as well ?

Again, the government is not responsible....they set up a framework and that is that....companies go under everyday. Ansett is important (they d not back mars bars as you say) but there are plenty of airlines....many of which do a better job than Ansett.

I lost 150,000 global reward point btw so I would love Ansett to keep going....but not having it run by Canberra.

Satay Mat

 

[Satay Mat]

Originally posted by Pessimistic


Then why have a transport minister ? Why have a government ?

The trains in melbourne stop tomorrow and its nothing to do with the state government ? I think not.

codswallop....

you have a government to set legislative and regulatory frameworks and to run public institutions (schools hospitals, defence etc) where there is a public good which would not be served by private enterprise. The government is not there to run airlines....it used to run an airline and airfares were sky high....it used to run banks, phone companies lots of things....and it tended to do it badly....not all the time, but generally badly.

The transport minister sets frameworks....he does not run private companies.

Satay Mat

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Fat Cat execs get paid on performance huh ?

so we can assume that the cheque from Toomey is in the mail can we ?

oh yes, and the 20 percent of the entire Australian workforce that actually belongs to a Trade Union are "the controlling force in Australia" are they ?

grow a brain, please ?

Well you can't always include everyone but the vast majority of executives have performance related bonus's or stock options. I dont know Toomeys deal and a majority is not everyone. If he was paid a bonus whilst not performing I am sure the shareholders would have had a lot to say.

It's not the 20% it's the few people who control the unions that are doing the damage. In reality many strike because they are told to and join the union on 'no ticket, no start' conditions. As I said Labour=Union party. It is a political machine which often does not care for grass roots members. Unions control most of the public sector, airlines, docks,building, mining, oil and gas, etc, the key industries which the public are dependant upon. Where they are not present is the huge array of small businesses in Australia.

Let's take a couple of issues. Management needs to reduce costs. Eliminating the third man in the cockpit so flights have two as the plane was designed and as flown everywhere else in the world would be one way. The union threatens to strike if implemented. If you were in management what would you do? Allow the strike costing millions a day or give in ?
Suppose you considered reducing penalty payments or decreasing allowances. Do it and you get a strike! What do you do?

I stopped using Ansett a few months ago when peanuts were scrapped as a cost saving along with inflight magazines. Now those savings would be acceptable by the unions.

Now there is talk about it being a government caused problem. How anyone can conclude that beats me.

What I do believe is this. In a takeover employees accrued entitlements are part of the deal and become part of the purchasing companies assetts. I therefore believe that Air NZ owes all entitlements to Ansett employees. If it has wriggled out of this then it is moraly and ethically wrong and the government should take it up with the NZ government who has been calling the shots. Dont forget that up to two weeks ago NZ only had to agree to SIA having 49% of AirNZ and Ansett would have been fine. I believe it is therefore the NZ governments responsibility to ensure all entitlements and creditors of Ansett are paid. If not we should sanction NZ. Deny them landing rights and have a trade embargo. Stop NZ citzens having the right of abode and dole here. If NZ wants to play hardball then so should we.

 

[mantis]

I have just heard employees of Ansett being interviewed & they said Ansett was in good shape until Air NZ sucked it dry.

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

Im glad Ansett has closed. I still remember when that other one closed Compass or something? Anyway when i went to book 2 tikets to Canberra they wanted 1300 bucks hahahahahahah stuff u Ansett u can close for that Does any1 know what will happen to the ppl booked to come over for the granny because my mates got tikets and is worried sick as she booked her flight from WA over with Ansett

 

[mantis]

I'm not sure Spidey, but I fear she may have done her money. I am just glad I booked mine with Qantas, I stopped travelling Ansett when they had all those safety problems.

I hope that maybe some other company will buy Ansett & honour the pre paid tickets.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
Im glad Ansett has closed. I still remember when that other one closed Compass or something? Anyway when i went to book 2 tikets to Canberra they wanted 1300 bucks hahahahahahah stuff u Ansett u can close for that Does any1 know what will happen to the ppl booked to come over for the granny because my mates got tikets and is worried sick as she booked her flight from WA over with Ansett

i.ll pass on your sympathys to the 16000 aussies out of work shall i?
cheers!

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

well im not employed myself but i wouldnt be bloody stupid enough to go into such a closed field where if it folded i'd have nothing else to go into. The people on the news who lost their jobs at Ansett anger me saying they'll just go into a dole Q. If they really cared i think theyd go sell themselves to the other airlines and try and get in there before everyone else does instead of having that loser attitude or if they were that determined to have a job they should go work packing in a factory even u can't be too fussy with work these days!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
well im not employed myself but i wouldnt be bloody stupid enough to go into such a closed field where if it folded i'd have nothing else to go into. The people on the news who lost their jobs at Ansett anger me saying they'll just go into a dole Q. If they really cared i think theyd go sell themselves to the other airlines and try and get in there before everyone else does instead of having that loser attitude or if they were that determined to have a job they should go work packing in a factory even u can't be too fussy with work these days!

oh yeah there is jobs coming out of the rafters
cheers!

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by tiger_of_old

i.ll pass on your sympathys to the 16000 aussies out of work shall i?
cheers!

Temporarily.

We have to realise that where there is demand that demand will be catered for by market forces.
Theare is no doubt that within a few months there will be just as many aircraft flying as before the Ansett crash (barring unprofitable reginal routes).
Qantas has already advertised directly to former Ansett staff for them to apply for jobs. Planes are being brought back from Asia and NZ and others leased from USA. We can expect an increased Qantas in the short term at least. Already we have the expanding VirginBlue capacity which was not there two years ago and other airlines will come along and buy the Ansett planes and fly them here.

Demand=Sufficient Planes=staff needed to run them.

(due to overmanning at Ansett the whole 16,000 may not be re-employed though)

 

[Blues_Brat]

I felt for that young woman on the news who had to catch a flight to see her dying father, only to be stuck at the airport.

And people are worried about how they're going to get to the footy.

 

[Danni]

Originally posted by tiger_of_old

i.ll pass on your sympathys to the 16000 aussies out of work shall i?
cheers!

Well tiger, the former Ansett Staff on this board have at least seen your sympathy's.

Spidey that is a pretty darn callous attitude to have. Just because you didn't like what they wanted to charge you doesn't mean it is a good thing they have closed.

If anything, using your example, those sort of prices you quoted have every chance of becoming the norm. Less competition = higher prices.

A little compassion wouldn't go astray in situations like this.

 

[mantis]

Totally agree Danni, I guarantee that from now on people in Perth are going to have to $1,000 plus for a return trip to Melbourne, where we could get a ticket for half the price on the red eye special, but now with only Qantas to fly with, there won't be any cheap fares.