Anthony Albanese - How long?

How long for Albo?


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Saint

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Feb 1, 2006
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Agree

It depends on use which is an unknown (with certainty)

The model proposed also results in double counting

A more sensible model is the EU which measures imports, where the use is known at the point of import
Yes, it's a bit strange to account for Co2 emissions in Austraila when they're also counted in India/Korea/China/Japan where they're burned.

And the impact on climate of exported coal should take into account whether the coal burning would go ahead without the Australian coal. If the answer is 'yes' and the alternate coal source (i.e. Indonesia) is dirtier coal, then the climate change impact of expanding Australian coal mines might actually be better than leaving them closed.

Wouldn't put it past the lobbyists to achieve this being written into the legislation.
 
Mar 19, 2008
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Yes, it's a bit strange to account for Co2 emissions in Austraila when they're also counted in India/Korea/China/Japan where they're burned.

And the impact on climate of exported coal should take into account whether the coal burning would go ahead without the Australian coal. If the answer is 'yes' and the alternate coal source (i.e. Indonesia) is dirtier coal, then the climate change impact of expanding Australian coal mines might actually be better than leaving them closed.

Wouldn't put it past the lobbyists to achieve this being written into the legislation.

Its all swings and roundabouts.

Australia dig the coal.
China burn the coal.
China make steel out of it and make it into cheap washing machines.
Australia buy the washing machines.

Its easy to not get involved, and tut tut at china , all the while buying the stuff they produce because we make SFA here.

You can "guess" how much co2 is involved in making a washing machines, but how do you differentiate between one using super green steel and renewable energy , and one that doesn't?
 

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Sep 16, 2008
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Yes, it's a bit strange to account for Co2 emissions in Austraila when they're also counted in India/Korea/China/Japan where they're burned.

And the impact on climate of exported coal should take into account whether the coal burning would go ahead without the Australian coal. If the answer is 'yes' and the alternate coal source (i.e. Indonesia) is dirtier coal, then the climate change impact of expanding Australian coal mines might actually be better than leaving them closed.

Wouldn't put it past the lobbyists to achieve this being written into the legislation.
Nahhhhh... That's too much of an inconvenience for those that would have us bite our noses to spite our face. As long as we're doing the "right" thing, what difference does it make if someone else steps in to make the process even worse?
 
Mar 19, 2008
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Yes, it's a bit strange to account for Co2 emissions in Austraila when they're also counted in India/Korea/China/Japan where they're burned.

And the impact on climate of exported coal should take into account whether the coal burning would go ahead without the Australian coal. If the answer is 'yes' and the alternate coal source (i.e. Indonesia) is dirtier coal, then the climate change impact of expanding Australian coal mines might actually be better than leaving them closed.

Wouldn't put it past the lobbyists to achieve this being written into the legislation.


Exporting also ignores transport costs, which automatically make Australia coal dirtier than domestic coal in Asia.

Then there is the brown coal ( lignite ) from Latrobe Valley, used for the bulk of Victoria's electricity generation. ( It's not exported because no-one in their right mind would buy it ).
Yallourn Power station produces 1.4 grams per Kwh , compared to an average of 0.9 for black coal. ( gas can be much lower ).

With 36% improvement in CO2 emissions it actually makes sense to close the Brown Coal operations and buy electricity generated from black coal off the national grid, but that would probably need expansion of NSW or QLD Coal power.
 

Saint

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Exporting also ignores transport costs, which automatically make Australia coal dirtier than domestic coal in Asia.

Then there is the brown coal ( lignite ) from Latrobe Valley, used for the bulk of Victoria's electricity generation. ( It's not exported because no-one in their right mind would buy it ).
Yallourn Power station produces 1.4 grams per Kwh , compared to an average of 0.9 for black coal. ( gas can be much lower ).

With 36% improvement in CO2 emissions it actually makes sense to close the Brown Coal operations and buy electricity generated from black coal off the national grid, but that would probably need expansion of NSW or QLD Coal power.
Absolutely brown coal should be stopped and replaced. But there are better alternatives to black coal expansion.

Have a look at all the wind farms being planned off Gippsland. Plus the pumped hydro being completed in Snowy.

Transport costs don't automatically make Oz coal worse than Indonesian coal (for example) as our coal export chains are very efficient compared to other countries.
 
Mar 19, 2008
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Absolutely brown coal should be stopped and replaced. But there are better alternatives to black coal expansion.

Have a look at all the wind farms being planned off Gippsland. Plus the pumped hydro being completed in Snowy.

Transport costs don't automatically make Oz coal worse than Indonesian coal (for example) as our coal export chains are very efficient compared to other countries.

All the renewables are fine, but the Europeans are far ahead of Australia at this, and they still need dispatchable power from Fossil fuels. ( or Nuclear).

If it can be accepted that we need it for the "immediate " future , we can build the best possible.
Combined Cycle gas can be 1/4 of the emissions as a brown coal power station.

Surely that is better than not accepting that its needed, but continuing to run the crappy old stuff.
 

Saint

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All the renewables are fine, but the Europeans are far ahead of Australia at this, and they still need dispatchable power from Fossil fuels. ( or Nuclear).

If it can be accepted that we need it for the "immediate " future , we can build the best possible.
Combined Cycle gas can be 1/4 of the emissions as a brown coal power station.

Surely that is better than not accepting that its needed, but continuing to run the crappy old stuff.
I guess the issues is that based on current trajectories, who is going to fork out for a Gas plant which will have a 30-year cost recovery if it might be outlawed in 20 years?

That's why we need a plan, not a bunch of individual private company decisions. It's almost like privatisation of gas and electricity networks wasn't such a great idea.
 
“What we are putting on the table now is, just don’t open up new coal and gas projects.”


On Tuesday, the night before the new government introduced its climate bill to the parliament, Albanese seriously misrepresented this position.


He said the government would not support a moratorium on new gas fields and coalmines, because that would have a “devastating impact” on the economy.
What am I missing. That is the Greens position isn't it?
 

ExcitementMachine

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Interesting what people's views are of the government and also the mechanisms of parliament since it's been opened and televised. I tuned in today and it was refreshing that the corrupt LNP were referred to as the opposition, looking bitter and with Scummo no where to be seen.
 
Constant interruptions from the LNP on non-existent points of order to basically stop the government being heard. Same thing they did with "I move that the member no longer be heard" bullshit.

They don't want anyone to speak but them. It's burning them up that they can't do anything about it.
 

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OK then let's talk decades instead of decade.

Mobile phones in the 90s were absolute garbage and only that a mobile, phone.

What yu now have in your pocket is a ******* supercomputer that connects to the billions of other supercomputers on earth.
It also contains every book, every film, every TV show, every music track recorded.

But yeah it's ridiculous to think a battery could be improved 🙄

Actually the first iPhone was several years behind palm pilot even newton so it took a long time for the infrastructure behind it to mature
Then since maybe iPhone 4 the improvements have slowed down, and even the performance is taken up by software bloat
 
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Kidding, right?
What am I missing. That is the Greens position isn't it?
It's a little muddled syntactically, but Bandt is saying the Greens demand no new FF projects and a phasing out of existing ones, and Albanese is implying the Greens demand we stop exporting coal immediately. (“If Australia, today, said we are not going to export any more coal, what you’d see is a lot of jobs lost,”)
 
Nov 17, 2007
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Actually the first iPhone was several years behind palm pilot even newton so it took a long time for the infrastructure behind it to mature
Then since maybe iPhone 4 the improvements have slowed down, and even the performance is taken up by software bloat

I bought a Lenovo tablet from Officeworks 6 years ago, and threw it out on Sunday because the battery swelled up and cracked the screen.

Looking at Officeworks / JB today, I'd be paying $50-$100 more and the only difference is twice the processor power and a bit more RAM. Same screen resolution, same audio, camera a bit better, and half the battery life. I think I'll be saving my dough for a bit, or else check out banggood for a cheap spyware-laced disposable.
 
Mar 19, 2008
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Actually the first iPhone was several years behind palm pilot even newton so it took a long time for the infrastructure behind it to mature
Then since maybe iPhone 4 the improvements have slowed down, and even the performance is taken up by software bloat

The basic hardware profiles of Smartphones are a pretty good way to quantify technical improvement IMO.

Samsung are easy to track.
2009: Galaxy 8GB Storage , 128MB RAM, 528mhz processor.
2010: S1: 2 to 16 GB storage , 512MB RAM 1GhZ Processor.
2011: S2: 16 to 32GB storage , 1GB RAM , 1.2Ghz ( dual core ) Processor.
2012: S3: 16 to 64 GB Storage , 1 or 2 GB RAM, 1.4Ghz ( quad core ) processor.
2013: S4: 16 to 64 GB Storage , 2GB RAM , 1.6GhZ ( quad core) processor.
2014: S5: 16 to 32 GB Storage , 2-3 GB of RAM, , 1.5 GHz (octo-core ) processor.
2015: S6: 32-128 GB Storage , 3-4 GB of RAM, 2.1 GhZ ( quad-core ) processor.
2016: S7: 32-128 GB Storage , 4 GB RAM. up to 2.3 Ghz octo-core processor.
etc etc.

A 2009 phone was out of date by 2010. It was obsolete in nearly every technical feature.
By contrast , if you bought a top of the line unit in 2012, you probably would not have been embarrassed 4 years later.
They are still developing them, making them better, but it becomes more incremental.
 
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Yes, it's a bit strange to account for Co2 emissions in Austraila when they're also counted in India/Korea/China/Japan where they're burned.

And the impact on climate of exported coal should take into account whether the coal burning would go ahead without the Australian coal. If the answer is 'yes' and the alternate coal source (i.e. Indonesia) is dirtier coal, then the climate change impact of expanding Australian coal mines might actually be better than leaving them closed.

Wouldn't put it past the lobbyists to achieve this being written into the legislation.
the legislation
which legislation are you referring to ?

We know that gas is a renewable in the EU but a fossil fuel here in Australia & that if you point out the inconsistency, you are a denier.


Seems Albo has played the the teals & the Greens off the break, his 43% is going to be legislated (as it should when you win an election), but everyones a winner with The Greens claiming the win, & the Teals claiming a win.

Everyones a winner now ...
 

Saint

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the legislation
which legislation are you referring to ?

We know that gas is a renewable in the EU but a fossil fuel here in Australia & that if you point out the inconsistency, you are a denier.


Seems Albo has played the the teals & the Greens off the break, his 43% is going to be legislated (as it should when you win an election), but everyones a winner with The Greens claiming the win, & the Teals claiming a win.

Everyones a winner now ...
When they re-write the EPBC Act, it'll be interesting to see what loop-holes get written in for the ALP donors (those fossil fuel companies don't just donate to the Libs) and if the Greens can pick them up and close them off.

Is the inconsistency about gas on the EU's behalf or on our behalf? Is it actually a renewable (of course it's not, without a few million years).
 
Another good move. Per the Graund blog.
The Senate has just agreed to an amendment that will close a loophole that exempts private companies (often owned and controlled by some of the richest Australians) to avoid tax transparency rules.

When last in office Labor legislated to require the publication of basic tax information of corporate entities with at least $100m in annual turnover.

But the Abbott government exempted about 1,000 Australian-owned private companiesfrom the tax transparency measures after claims wealthy owners could face kidnapping threats.

Amendments moved by the Greens to a government treasury bill would close that loophole, and passed the Senate this morning 37 votes to 27, with the support of Labor and David Pocock.

The treasury bill will go back to the house where it will likely pass.
 
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