Anthony Albanese - How long?

How long for Albo?


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William Wonka

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They are not mutually exclusive though.

I mean, on the bullshit index Australia sits pretty high up there. Are China's lies worse than Australia's have been?

China has a lot of hydro, that's not China lying, they actually have a lot of hydro. It may not be all very smart hydro, but they have it.

China is trying to gild the lilly, but their energy needs are huge, so they still have a lot of coal, and more coming on stream, but this doesn't change the fact, without their renewables, they would be using way more coal than they are.

The rate renewables are coming on line is also rising, so their is the prospect of future coal flattening and then contracting.

But this argument misses the point again. If Australia has decided renewables are the way to go, why do China's lies matter to that decision?

China lying matters to climate change and global targets, but should it matter to our decisions.

And if China stops lying and starts doing more, does Russia then become the it boy? But what about Russia. But what about Indonesia, but what about.

Does every country have to go all in, and tell the truth before it's OK for us to do it.?

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Also China's leaders see burning dirty stuff in a negative light as they enjoy going outside occasionally and not choking on smog.
Their switch to renewables is based more on air pollution reduction than lowering atmospheric carbon.

It's just a good PR benefit.

Still tho, who cares about motivations or why it's happening as long as it is.
 

SaintsSeptember

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Also China's leaders see burning dirty stuff in a negative light as they enjoy going outside occasionally and not choking on smog.
Their switch to renewables is based more on air pollution reduction than lowering atmospheric carbon.

It's just a good PR benefit.

Still tho, who cares about motivations or why it's happening as long as it is.

Do you have a source for this or guessing?

Photochemical smog in Beijing largely caused by car emissions.

Coal burning factories also contribute to the smog present in Beijing. These factories rely on outdated and inefficient technologies. The factories are located on the outskirts of Beijing and the nearby cities of Harbin and Hebei.1 Beijing is a victim of its own topography because it is surrounded by mountains, ensuring that pollution remains trapped within the city limits ( L.A. had a similar problem ).

CO2 itself is not dirty and you breath it pretty happily.

The Chinese have introduced emissions controls, which particularly effect 2 stroke scooters and motorbikes, but it takes years for this to flow through.
 

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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?

BruceFromBalnarring

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It exposes those who peddle %s as if they mean something.

What is 100%, let alone 43% of .... +/- the worlds biggest emitters, wassa madda
The answer is this…

If China ain’t along for the ride, in an absolute rather than comparative sense, then the “solution” to the “problem” can only be adaptation.

Prevention or mitigation are out the window.
 

Kwality

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The answer is this…

If China ain’t along for the ride, in an absolute rather than comparative sense, then the “solution” to the “problem” can only be adaptation.

Prevention or mitigation are out the window.

Too nice Bruce, its fraud & trading on peoples ignorance.
 

E Shed

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This sort of stuff genuinely lifts my heart. It’s like green shoots of democracy again after the foul winters of Trump, Johnson & our own version of populist state captured government led by the biggest fraud ever to hold high office in Australia.

 

Kwality

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What exactly did you want them to do with Hazelwood? That thing was horrible

In the context of my comment, mothball it for future use IF required. The same as should be done for Eraring.
WHY, because renewables are not up to the 24/7 demand at this point in time.
Revisit demolition when the east coast has certainty of supply.
 
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Evolved1

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I see potato Dutton is going hard on keeping the fuel excise cut.
No I don’t know about other but I’m seeing cost at $1.60-1.70/ litre (northern suburbs Melbourne) which would be $1.90 post excise return - high but not as high as pre cut (pre election)
Yeah, it needs to go irrespective of fuel price.
 

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QuietB

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In the context of my comment, mothball it for future use IF required. The same as should be done for Eraring.
WHY, because renewables are not up to the 24/7 demand at this point in time.
Revisit demolition when the east coast has certainty of supply.
And who pays for that in a privatised energy market?
 

SaintsSeptember

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Yeah, it needs to go irrespective of fuel price.

Why do you think it suddenly needs to go now.

Its been there since the 70s hasn't it?

It was originally meant to be a kind of user pays way of funding road maintenance, but its long since been turned into a slush fund.
Still , how do you replace the revenue or don't the government need money to pay for stuff?
 

Gralin

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Keep decommissioned end of life coal plants funded by the tax payer sure is a new one.
 

Gralin

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Some people seem to think we can fix our little piece of the planet's atmosphere while the rest goes to ruin.
Doesn't surprise me, there are people who believe in flat earth.
Lol
The but China argument is to avoid us having to do anything and act like it's not our fault if we don't.
 

Evolved1

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Why do you think it suddenly needs to go now.

Its been there since the 70s hasn't it?

It was originally meant to be a kind of user pays way of funding road maintenance, but its long since been turned into a slush fund.
Still , how do you replace the revenue or don't the government need money to pay for stuff?
I highlighted it's the fuel excise cut that needs to go when due, not fuel excise. I'd be happy to see the fuel excise directed entirely towards road maintenance.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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Lol
The but China argument is to avoid us having to do anything and act like it's not our fault if we don't.
If our actions are self destructive, which they are, and deliver no measurable benefit, which they don’t, then our “fault” will be the imposition of miserable poverty on our poorest people.
 

Gralin

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If our actions are self destructive, which they are, and deliver no measurable benefit, which they don’t, then our “fault” will be the imposition of miserable poverty on our poorest people.
So business as usual then.
Our inaction on climate change does that already.
Doing nothing doesn't help poor people.
I mean Albo could raise welfare above the poverty line too but he's not doing that either.

But again that has nothing to do with China.

Also making poor people wear the cost of action on climate change is also a choice.
 

QuietB

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So business as usual then.
Our inaction on climate change does that already.
Doing nothing doesn't help poor people.
I mean Albo could raise welfare above the poverty line too but he's not doing that either.

But again that has nothing to do with China.

Also making poor people wear the cost of action on climate change is also a choice.
What is this mythical “cost” though.

It is a 100% fact that Australia needs to modernise its electricity generation.

It is also a 100% fact that the private sector does not want to invest in coal, and does not want to invest in gas either.

The only reason Kurri Kurri is hapenenimg is because Morrison committed Australian tax payers to paying for it. Morrison decided to pick winners.

And apparently that “cost” is fine.

This idea that Australia’s poor are going to bear the “cost” is a crock of s**t. And if those saying that meant it they’d be all over nationalising coal and gas and/or super profits taxes. But they aren’t - because they are disingenuous blow hards.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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So business as usual then.
Our inaction on climate change does that already.
Doing nothing doesn't help poor people.
I mean Albo could raise welfare above the poverty line too but he's not doing that either.

But again that has nothing to do with China.

Also making poor people wear the cost of action on climate change is also a choice.
No. Not business as usual. Start looking at adaptation.

I’m skeptical as to whether climate change is quite the crisis it’s made out to be. I don’t genuflect to the altar of science.

But very clearly, if it is such a problem, and if humanity is to blame, Australia committing economic suicide is not going to fix it whilst any reductions we make are cancelled out many times over by China.