Anthony Albanese - How long?

How long for Albo?


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Gralin

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Apr 8, 2010
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Make no mistake, what you are advocating for is the re-election of the LNP.
No I'm not, I'm advocating for people to not give Albo a pass.
The idea that we can't criticise Labor or we'll get the coalition is bollocks.

Also, your position can only be one that serves your self interest. Nothing wrong with that, up to the point where your are willing to throw people under the bus in pursuit of your self interest.
What self interest would that be?
 

Gralin

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Oh no, can't demand any better of a Labor politician, for it will help the LNP! Doesn't matter how bad a move they're making.
before the election
you can't criticize Labor's policies it will lead to the coalition winning, once they get in they will do stuff
after the election
you can't criticize Labor's policies it will lead to the coalition winning
 

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JackOutback

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Sep 15, 2011
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before the election
you can't criticize Labor's policies it will lead to the coalition winning, once they get in they will do stuff
after the election
you can't criticize Labor's policies it will lead to the coalition winning
You absolutely can criticise, but some of the criticism has been for not doing things he didn't say he was going to do. Now, you can think Labor should increase welfare, but it was never on the cards for either party, so it should be a general criticism of Labor/Liberal and the current state of Australian politics, not proof that Albanese is some kind of lying a-hole.
 

Carn The Berries

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You absolutely can criticise, but some of the criticism has been for not doing things he didn't say he was going to do. Now, you can think Labor should increase welfare, but it was never on the cards for either party, so it should be a general criticism of Labor/Liberal and the current state of Australian politics, not proof that Albanese is some kind of lying a-hole.
Just because they haven't said they are going to do something doesn't mean that you can't be critical of them for it (if you believe that thing is a good idea). There are many who believe that Jobkeeper should increase at a rate that is above current CPI, they are more than justified in criticising the government for not doing it.

The issue is that there are some people who have openly criticised the former government for not taking action in certain areas, but are silent on the ALP when they are doing the same.

You can't have it both ways.
 

Gralin

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You absolutely can criticise, but some of the criticism has been for not doing things he didn't say he was going to do. Now, you can think Labor should increase welfare, but it was never on the cards for either party, so it should be a general criticism of Labor/Liberal and the current state of Australian politics, not proof that Albanese is some kind of lying a-hole.
Yeah and before the election I said his stance on welfare wouldn't change and it was s**t and people made excuses
now you're making excuses that his views are still s**t, apparently someone who made their persona at election time "growing up poor in public housing with a mum on welfare" can't be criticized for not doing s**t for people on welfare because he never said he would....

I never said he would, I said he can eat a dick for not doing anything about it, and anyone defending him can eat one too
 

JackOutback

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Yeah and before the election I said his stance on welfare wouldn't change and it was s**t and people made excuses
now you're making excuses that his views are still s**t, apparently someone who made their persona at election time "growing up poor in public housing with a mum on welfare" can't be criticized for not doing s**t for people on welfare because he never said he would....

I never said he would, I said he can eat a dick for not doing anything about it, and anyone defending him can eat one too
Politics is the art of the possible. It's easy to be an ideologue and throw stones. Do I think he should shelve the stage 3 tax cuts and increase welfare? Yes. Do I understand that he went to an election with the opposite because it would be political suicide to do so and we would have had another three years of the Coalition? Also yes.

I'll take the win for minimum wage workers as well as the changes to the points-based system that means full-time study counts as all the points necessary. And I'll support increased pressure for welfare increases. That doesn't mean screaming he's s**t and anyone who supports him is s**t.
 

jatz14

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I know what you're saying, and agree.

Bhuuut. I think the point is... people are sick of accepting the status quo. Maybe if we all pushed hard enough, we could shift the country in the same way that the far right and religious groups have been pushing the country.


Why do we always need to try and placate, and find balance, and negotiate? Why do we always need to play by the rules, if the 'other side' don't, and the 'other side' know how to use that specifically against 'us'?

There are enough bad faith posters, pretending to be with 'us', while doing nothing but attacking 'us'. That it's hard to tell the difference sometimes.
Because they are willing to burn down the house to get their way? Where the left generally feels it has to bring everyone along for the ride, the right is willing to bulldoze those that disagree, even if thats the majority?

Change is harder if you feel you need to build a consensus, but longer lasting. Republicans can stack the books and force minority opinions into law, but its really hard to keep them there in that case. Democrats could have been devastated at the next mid terms, but campaigning against what the Republicans have done gives them a good shot of maintaining their position or improving it.

Republicans forcing through their agenda could hand the Democrats a popular mandate to undo it.
 

Gralin

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Politics is the art of the possible. It's easy to be an ideologue and throw stones. Do I think he should shelve the stage 3 tax cuts and increase welfare? Yes. Do I understand that he went to an election with the opposite because it would be political suicide to do so and we would have had another three years of the Coalition? Also yes.

I'll take the win for minimum wage workers as well as the changes to the points-based system that means full-time study counts as all the points necessary. And I'll support increased pressure for welfare increases. That doesn't mean screaming he's s**t and anyone who supports him is s**t.
They absolutely could raise welfare payments, they absolutely could block the stage 3 tax cuts, they don't want to do either of those things, and I would put money on it being their ideology

and that is why they are s**t, because they don't care about people in poverty and actively keep them there, while giving the rich even more money

there is no other way to say it, they're exactly who they said they were before the election
 

CM86

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On one hand, I'm very happy and pleased with a lot of what's happening with the new government.

On the other hand, I don't feel it's enough and I'm worried that they are going to fall in line.

Albo didn't promise certain things, or go to election on certain things. But he also didn't state they would be off the table.
The media is going all out to make mountains out of molehills, but there are plenty of things that are a big deal, that the current government is dropping the ball on.


I'd take Albo over Dutton and Morrison 1000 times over. But I and others need to be aware of our prejudices, and not accept failings from Albo and Co, just because they're our 'team'.
 

Gralin

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On one hand, I'm very happy and pleased with a lot of what's happening with the new government.

On the other hand, I don't feel it's enough and I'm worried that they are going to fall in line.

Albo didn't promise certain things, or go to election on certain things. But he also didn't state they would be off the table.
The media is going all out to make mountains out of molehills, but there are plenty of things that are a big deal, that the current government is dropping the ball on.


I'd take Albo over Dutton and Morrison 1000 times over. But I and others need to be aware of our prejudices, and not accept failings from Albo and Co, just because they're our 'team'.
Yeah I'd take Albo over Dutton or Morrison, but like that's a pretty low bar when you're talking about those two

I'd like more from Albo than just not 100% evil
 

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Crankyhawk

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Just because they haven't said they are going to do something doesn't mean that you can't be critical of them for it (if you believe that thing is a good idea). There are many who believe that Jobkeeper should increase at a rate that is above current CPI, they are more than justified in criticising the government for not doing it.

The issue is that there are some people who have openly criticised the former government for not taking action in certain areas, but are silent on the ALP when they are doing the same.

You can't have it both ways.
Need examples and there is perhaps a bit of a grace period as the various ministries sort out through the bullshirt left for them. Probably a lot of the lnp ministers operated on undocumented under the table basis too. I give them 6 months of “easy” before really bashing alp hard; exceptions for decisions clearly made with bad faith (eg cross bench cuts)
 

Crankyhawk

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Politics is the art of the possible. It's easy to be an ideologue and throw stones. Do I think he should shelve the stage 3 tax cuts and increase welfare? Yes. Do I understand that he went to an election with the opposite because it would be political suicide to do so and we would have had another three years of the Coalition? Also yes.

I'll take the win for minimum wage workers as well as the changes to the points-based system that means full-time study counts as all the points necessary. And I'll support increased pressure for welfare increases. That doesn't mean screaming he's s**t and anyone who supports him is s**t.
I’d be happy just to end the stage 3 cuts then see where spending priorities are (even deficit reduction). And I say this as a potential beneficiary of the full 9k. It’s not justified now with the current economic climate
 

JackOutback

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I’d be happy just to end the stage 3 cuts then see where spending priorities are (even deficit reduction). And I say this as a potential beneficiary of the full 9k. It’s not justified now with the current economic climate
I agree and I am in the same position. But I am also aware that they would be battered from pillar to post and it could potentially be an election killer. Albanese said he had an eye on 2025 as well as the present. There's no point making a few short-term wins if you get turfed and it all gets rolled back. As I say, keep the pressure on, but some are acting as if he is just as bad as the previous government and I certainly don't think that's true.
 

Gralin

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, but some are acting as if he is just as bad as the previous government and I certainly don't think that's true.
On quite a few topics they are.

They are not good, they are currently slightly less s**t

Also its great that we've now got, they've got to be careful for the next 3 years or they will lose.

That's a great mandate to do the absolute bare minimum which seems to be his plan
 

Festerz

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The lack of basic understanding here, not just of economics but of the evolution of political philosophy in tandem with prevailing economic circumstances, is staggering.



 
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Johnny Bananas

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But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe, and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed, and lodged.
- Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, Ch. 8

I wonder if Hughes has read this.
 

Festerz

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- Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, Ch. 8

I wonder if Hughes has read this.
Nah.

My guess is she just got a bit over-excited when she heard about an 'invisible hand'. And quotes it without ever having picked it up.

(temptation to insert provocative GIF resisted).
 
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