Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

[Clubs are trumps]

It might be news to you that there is a world wide shortage of IC Nurses. Guess why?

Mate i work at the hospital i mentioned in my post above. Im giving an insight into whats happening. I watched my ex struggle to get employment as a nurse after graduating here during the outbreak of the pandemic, simply because she was born in Nepal. If you're going to ask a condescending sarcastic question you can cram it.

 

[Long Live HFC]

2 weeks off sick with the flu everytime isn't minor. Might well as risk not taking it.

you realise the vaccine isn't causing her flu, right?

Some of the pro vaccine mob are no different to the likes of Pogma at times. Completely refusing to believe vaccines can cause health issues in some people.

while i agree that ideologues are ideologues, there really is nobody quite like pogma

 

[RolandF1]

Yeah, I knew it was a mistake to get involved here. I know where this is leading having experienced it many times before. I've talking about some of my issues in the past, specifically relating to peanuts and a bunch deciding they knew my experiences better than I did. Life's too short to go 5 pages of closed minded s**t. I'm out.

 

[PunyHumans!!!]

The flu vaccine cannot give you the flu. Its a dead virus. Its flu like symptoms that tend to last only a few days, that people experience after the shot. Its possible that there is a different strain of flu going around that the vaccines may not cover or its possible also that your sister had already contracted the flu prior to the vaccine but had yet to show any signs. It does happen.

Clearly your sister should forego flu vaccines.

While I am generally pro-vaccine I don't see flu shots as important for the majority of the population. In western society it is rarely a life threatening illness.

If your comparing it against the third world, then its affects probably are nowhere near as severe but at least 2,500 die each year from flu complications here. Then consider how many thousands of people in the country have chronic illnesses that can be worsened with a bout of the flu. Anyone with heart or lung issues are at huge risk. 18,000 are hospitalized from it every year so that's quite the burden on whats an already stretched health care system. So if the majority of the population aren't getting vaccinated then just imagine the consequences for those at risk.

 

[GreyWind]

I'd say depending on the industry you work in and the people you come into contact with daily should determine if you should get a flu vaccination or not.

 

[rowie343]

Yeah, I knew it was a mistake to get involved here. I know where this is leading having experienced it many times before. I've talking about some of my issues in the past, specifically relating to peanuts and a bunch deciding they knew my experiences better than I did. Life's too short to go 5 pages of closed minded s**t. I'm out.

Good idea to check out. Complete waste of time and energy discussing anything related to the topic with the bunch of pro vax zealots that are on here. Would be hard to find a more close minded lot.
Obvious response: all vaxs are good, they do no harm, never have and never will. You got it wrong. Impossible for vaccines to do harm. Case closed.
Good move checking out.
And tell your sister never to be pressured into getting another shot ever again. Totally unecessary.

 

[darth_timon]

Good idea to check out. Complete waste of time and energy discussing anything related to the topic with the bunch of pro vax zealots that are on here. Would be hard to find a more close minded lot.
Obvious response: all vaxs are good, they do no harm, never have and never will. You got it wrong. Impossible for vaccines to do harm. Case closed.
Good move checking out.
And tell your sister never to be pressured into getting another shot ever again. Totally unecessary.

I don't see any claims that vaccination is perfect. It doesn't always work - that doesn't mean the alternative is better.

The easiest way to judge the effectiveness of vaccination is to ask people: have you been vaccinated? Then ask 'have you had side effects from this?'

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

 

[DemonTim]

And thats the problem. The anti vaxxers jump up and down and make claims that noone has even said.

Their logic is ******* non-existent. IT seems to change on a weekly basis, one week its a conspiracy to make money, the next its that they do damage

Noone here claimed your experiences were wrong, they simply furthered the discussion around what may have happened. I'm starting to doubt the authenticity of your issues, since instead of discussing it, you decided that everyone was trying to force something on you (when noone was)

 

[RolandF1]

And thats the problem. The anti vaxxers jump up and down and make claims that noone has even

And then

Their logic is ******* non-existent. IT seems to change on a weekly basis, one week its a conspiracy to make money, the next its that they do damage

Making claims I've never made, from being anti vaccine which I'm not to that I think its a scam for money.

Noone here claimed your experiences were wrong, they simply furthered the discussion around what may have happened.

Then the very next sentence.

I'm starting to doubt the authenticity of your issues..

Go * yourself.

I don't have to justify myself to you or throw open my medical history so everyone can break it down and mock it with cosmic coincidences. Been there done that, they've been proven wrong.

The last 3 times my sister has had the flu shot she's been sick with bad flu symptoms everytime. This isnt some once off or I wouldnt have mentioned it. The last time was just 3 weeks ago and she had to turn up to work to prove she was sick because they didn't believe her having recently been injected and being absent previously.

 

[DemonTim]

And then



Making claims I've never made, from being anti vaccine which I'm not to that I think its a scam for money.



Then the very next sentence.



Go **** yourself.

I don't have to justify myself to you or throw open my medical history so everyone can break it down and mock it with cosmic coincidences. Been there done that, they've been proven wrong.

The last 3 times my sister has had the flu shot she's been sick with bad flu symptoms everytime. This isnt some once off or I wouldnt have mentioned it. The last time was just 3 weeks ago and she had to turn up to work to prove she was sick because they didn't believe her having recently been injected and being absent previously.

The first parts were general... hence I said anti vaxxers and didn't specifically quote you

Until that point noone had claimed your experiences were wrong, yet you responded and took your bat and ball and went home claiming they did.

That's why I questioned the authenticity, your initial response was to accuse people of something that didn't happen, then when further responses came you said you would no longer respond. You've jumped at shadows since joining the thread.

 

[Lebbo73]

And then



Making claims I've never made, from being anti vaccine which I'm not to that I think its a scam for money.



Then the very next sentence.



Go **** yourself.

I don't have to justify myself to you or throw open my medical history so everyone can break it down and mock it with cosmic coincidences. Been there done that, they've been proven wrong.

The last 3 times my sister has had the flu shot she's been sick with bad flu symptoms everytime. This isnt some once off or I wouldnt have mentioned it. The last time was just 3 weeks ago and she had to turn up to work to prove she was sick because they didn't believe her having recently been injected and being absent previously.

I used to work with a lady who had the flu shot 3 years in a row and then missed over a week from the flu each year. The next year she rejected the company's offer of a free flu vaccine and she didn't get sick. Go figure!

 

[Long Live HFC]

MYTH: You can catch the flu from the vaccine.

The vaccine is made from an inactivated virus that can’t transmit infection. So people who get sick after receiving a flu vaccination were going to get sick anyway. It takes a week or two to get protection from the vaccine. But people assume that because they got sick after getting the vaccine, the shot caused their illness.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/10-flu-myths

Fact: You definitely cannot get the flu from the flu shot.

The flu vaccine is a small dose of parts of the inactivated (killed) flu virus – it contains no live flu virus at all – so it cannot give you the flu.

Some people who get the flu shot may experience redness and swelling around the area of the injection, which normally disappears within a few days.

A small percentage of people may also suffer short lived fever, tiredness and symptoms similar to the flu but this is not the flu.

http://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/w...d+treatment/immunisation/vaccines/flu+vaccine

 

[RolandF1]

http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/10-flu-myths

http://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/w...d+treatment/immunisation/vaccines/flu+vaccine

There is Harvard saying:

The vaccine is made from an inactivated virus that can’t transmit infection. So people who get sick after receiving a flu vaccination were going to get sick anyway. It takes a week or two to get protection from the vaccine. But people assume that because they got sick after getting the vaccine, the shot caused their illness.

Then there is SA Health:

A small percentage of people may also suffer short lived fever, tiredness and symptoms similar to the flu but this is not the flu.

Now what my sister experienced may have been the above but it certainly wasn't short lived. Regardless its still a contradiction. Can they get sick or can't they?

Reminds me of that comic panel in Asterix in Switzerland

 

[Long Live HFC]

Can they get sick or can't they?

well i thought that was all rather self-explanatory but since you asked:

people can't get influenza by being immunised with the flu vaccine.
people can experience moderate, short-term symptoms after receiving a flu vaccine.
people can still get influenza even though they're vaccinated, but the vaccine isn't the cause.

i hope that is clearer now.

 

[RolandF1]

people can experience moderate, short-term symptoms after receiving a flu vaccine.

SA Health's website says this but Harvard's doesn't, using 'sick' or 'illness' generally, saying there are no side effects and if any appear are unrelated to the vaccine.

 

[Long Live HFC]

SA Health's website says this but Harvard's doesn't, using 'sick' or 'illness' generally, saying there are no side effects and if any appear are unrelated to the vaccine.

assuming you're talking about the harvard link, it doesn't say this at all.

 

[RolandF1]

assuming you're talking about the harvard link, it doesn't say this at all.

I've highlighted the bold in a previous post which deflects any sickness on external forces. It doesn't refer to any sickness post vaccine, unlike SA Health.

 

[PunyHumans!!!]

"In some people, the flu vaccine causes side effects. These include discomfort where the shot was given, low-grade fever, and achiness. These side effects can make you feel crummy for a day or two, but it’s not the flu. Some people may coincidentally come down with a cold soon after getting the shot (it’s happened to me) and confuse cold symptoms with the flu."

Found this on the Harvard site, discussing side effects of the flu vaccine, though not as detailed as the SA link.

 

[RolandF1]

"In some people, the flu vaccine causes side effects. These include discomfort where the shot was given, low-grade fever, and achiness. These side effects can make you feel crummy for a day or two, but it’s not the flu. Some people may coincidentally come down with a cold soon after getting the shot (it’s happened to me) and confuse cold symptoms with the flu."

Found this on the Harvard site, discussing side effects of the flu vaccine, though not as detailed as the SA link.

Thank you. I wish they had included something like that in the previous link instead of implying others symptons don't exist. Could you please provide the link?

 

[Long Live HFC]

I've highlighted the bold in a previous post which deflects any sickness on external forces. It doesn't refer to any sickness post vaccine, unlike SA Health.

you really need to work on your reading comprehension. the particular link i provided, is about myths regarding vaccines and says nothing about side effects, and certainly doesn't say there are "no side effects" like you claim. the bit you quoted is talking about influenza. it isn't dismissing side effects (that everyone knows exist), it simply isn't talking about them at all.

I wish they had included something like that in the previous link

it isn't an exhaustive examination of all things immunisation. it was about myths. seemed handy at a time when you displayed beliefs in such myths.

instead of implying others symptons don't exist.

it implied nothing of the sort. that inference is all yours.

 

[PunyHumans!!!]

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/two-bad-reasons-getting-flu-shot-201411157530

 

[RolandF1]

you really need to work on your reading comprehension. the particular link i provided, is about myths regarding vaccines and says nothing about side effects, and certainly doesn't say there are "no side effects" like you claim. the bit you quoted is talking about influenza. it isn't dismissing side effects (that everyone knows exist), it simply isn't talking about them at all.

It most certainly is not talking about influenza specifically in the quote I provided. In every other answer it specifically refers to flu or influenza but uses general terms like sick or illness in that other answer. Keep up those A grade comprehension skills of yours, mate.

 

[Long Live HFC]

It most certainly is not talking about influenza specifically in the quote I provided. In every other answer it specifically refers to flu or influenza but uses general terms like sick or illness in that other answer. Keep up those A grade comprehension skills of yours, mate.

lol. it says it right there in the heading, mate. maybe you missed it. here it is again.

MYTH: You can catch the flu from the vaccine.

i mean could it be any plainer?

it is not talking about side effects of vaccination, but the tendency for simpletons to engage in post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies re getting the flu (or completely unrelated illnesses) post-flu vaccination. quite obviously harvard know that vaccines have side effects (like any other medical treatment) and they're not trying to hide or "imply" otherwise, s**t reading skills or not.

 

[RolandF1]

lol. it says it right there in the heading, mate. maybe you missed it. here it is again.



i mean could it be any plainer?

the bit you quoted is talking about influenza.

The bit I quoted was not the title. Christ, how low can you go to make a dishonest point.

Here it is again:

The vaccine is made from an inactivated virus that can’t transmit infection. So people who get sick after receiving a flu vaccination were going to get sick anyway. It takes a week or two to get protection from the vaccine. But people assume that because they got sick after getting the vaccine, the shot caused their illness.

It doesnt say 'so people who get influenza...' it says 'so people who get sick..' Its a general statement, unlike in later answers when it directly refers to flu. Its pointing out that those who get sick after getting the flu vaccine were going to be sick anyway (leaving it open to whatever sickness that may be), not that they were going to get the flu specifically anyway. SICK, not just FLU. ILLNESS, not just INFLUZENA. The title may refer to the flu but the answer is being general. Which was my original point, it says sick/illness is not related to the vaccine when in fact sick/illness through fever and flu like symptoms can occur. They should have included this.

 

[Long Live HFC]

The bit I quoted was not the title. Christ, how low can you go to make a dishonest point.

yeah, no s**t you dumb campaigner. you're admitting to the fact that you're taking something out of context in order to justify some dumb, ignorant chip on your shoulder. the heading of myth #1 informs the reader what it's going to talk about. hence why its the heading

It doesnt say 'so people who get influenza...' it says 'so people who get sick..' Its a general statement, unlike in later answers when it directly refers to flu. Its pointing out that those who get sick after getting the flu vaccine were going to be sick anyway (leaving it open to whatever sickness that may be), not that they were going to get the flu specifically anyway. SICK, not just FLU. ILLNESS, not just INFLUZENA. Its being general. Which was my original point, it says sick/illness is not related to the vaccine when in fact sick/illness through fever and flu like symptoms can occur. They should have included this.

please quote the part where it refers to the side effects of vaccination, you dumb campaigner.

it is not talking about side effects of vaccination, but the tendency for simpletons to engage in post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies re getting the flu (or completely unrelated illnesses) post-flu vaccination. quite obviously harvard know that vaccines have side effects (like any other medical treatment) and they're not trying to hide or "imply" otherwise, s**t reading skills or not.

 

[RolandF1]

yeah, no s**t you dumb campaigner. you're admitting to the fact that you're taking something out of context in order to justify some dumb, ignorant chip on your shoulder. the heading of myth #1 informs the reader what it's going to talk about. hence why its the heading



please quote the part where it refers to the side effects of vaccination, you dumb campaigner.

Ah personal insults. Yep, I guess that was inevitable. Nevermind.