Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

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Marcel Proust

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Article on it on the hun newspaper website which I don't want to pay for -


The best thing about anti vaxxers is the smug tone of voice they have when they tell people that they're in breach of the Constitution or whatever other legal document that they've not understood while everyone else is looking at them and wondering how they get out of bed unaided.
Apart from judges and mps cause it's a breach of their Constitutional rights?

Funny that
 
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SaintsSeptember

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Few blokes getting letters asking their job to take liability if they get sick post vax.

Fair work Australia also made some interesting comments
Their job takes liability based on whether they are following best practice and taking all reasonable precautions.

They certainly wouldn't be liable for anything other than the sick leave if the employee caught mild Covid.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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Did Brett Sutton says judges lawyers and mps are Exempt from mandatory vax due Constitution rights.
MPs are subject to the vaccine mandate.

However, there are constitutional complications around these mandates for courts and politicians.

The question is whether they can impede the constitutionally mandated functioning and powers of elected representatives and the courts. That's a little different from any old Joe shouting "da constition", when arguing as to why the mandates shouldn't apply to their industry.
 

FredLeDeux

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Back in the day when they were much more fringe in the pre-internet algorithms age, getting corro from one of them was awesome. There'd be words/phrases written in different colours (has legal power that way) and all sorts. Got a couple favourites still that I printed out somewhere.
Back when I was on the game, we did a lot of local government work, and municipal councils (and their various legal activities) used to draw them like flies
 

E Shed

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I think Sarah Wilson is awesome. This is from her newsletter. Copy & paste because I’m not sure how else to share it.

Freedom is a practice

and getting vaccinated is one such way

I did an IG Live this week on the reasons why I got the Covid vaccination.
It attracted 200,000 views (and counting) and feedback from around the world (Juliette Lewis, NBC’s Carson Daly and a former Manchester United star who contacted me and we got to chatting whiskey in my DMs for a bit).

I consciously didn’t go down the “your science v my science” rabbit hole. I didn’t go near “rights” or side effects (which I did in fact experience).

Nope. My rationale is this:

The vaccine – as undesirable and imperfect as it is - is the only viable option on the table for giving young people back their lives, and for ensuring the disadvantaged do not experience further pain (health workers pushed to brinks, the sick denied access to over-stretched hospitals, etc). Personally, I’d rather not have to take it but…
We, as a globe, are being asked to step beyond our self-interest, our uninspiring individualism and “sovereignty” and to attend to something greater, the collective. For most of us, it’s the first time we’ve been asked to do so. And IMO this is a privilege.
Vax bitching and catastrophising are distracting us all from the more pressing issue – the climate crisis. Let’s sort Covid swiftly and move on to the bigger calamity, again in the spirit of being in service to something bigger (the planet, young people). Onwards!

Click on my mug above and it will take you to the Instagram Live. Reading the comments in the post is worthwhile.
I think the idea of rising in service to the collective struck a chord. It feels familiar and emotionally congruent with something we feel primally deep inside, yes? While at the same time, it’s also sadly unfamiliar. I think it piqued a longing, a nostalgia.

Throughout history, this is what the greatest leaders have done – delivered us to this congruence. They have dragged us from our self-obsession to the collective, something we don’t tend do on our own (because we are programmed mostly to veer toward self-interest), but require in order to survive. We don’t have fangs, horns, poison in our tails…we have only ever had an awesome ability to form a tribe and defend ourselves as a collective that can cooperate super smartly. So we laud leaders who can drive us to this cooperative collective vibe, and who can inspire us from our inherent selfishness with altruistic incentives, myths and storyline that rally us together. It’s a tension. And we need leaders who keep us dancing somewhere between the two drives.

Yuval Noah Harari covers this well in Sapiens and Rutger Bregman in Humankind.

The problem today is that we have swung so far to the individualism end of the scale. Such that to be asked to rise to service is seen as an affront. We see it as a complete violation of our sovereignty (whatever that really means), our rights (wherever they are laid out), instead of us a gift that can help us correct the tension, right the pendulum swing.

And this is because we have dispensed with good leaders and boundary makers…all in the name of this so called freedom and sovereignty. For the past 100 years or so, we have progressively wiped the “moral umpires and coaches”, as I call them, off the footy field of life, the noble Presidents and PMs, the interventionist State which ensured funding for hospitals and schools, and religious and community leaders who once blew the whistle on too much life-threatening selfishness and motivated us into en masse action. And. So. Individualism has been allowed to take over the whole damn game. Ergo the existential crises we now face. (Yep, I see Covid and the climate crisis and the wild political fragmentation fermenting around the world as the direct upshot of individualism and consumption left to run rampant.)

Which brings me to freedom.

We don’t love it.

We know it skews us too far to individualism, and this leaves us feeling precarious and dangerously out of balance. As James Baldwin wrote,

“I have met only a very few people — and most of these were not Americans — who had any real desire to be free. Freedom is hard to bear.”

The Danish philosopher Kierkegaard defined anxiety as the “dizziness of freedom”. The general consensus from the research I’ve done is that the human brain doesn’t have the capacity to operate with infinite choice and options…we get overwhelmed, our amygdala then hijacks our neocortex and we freeze. Mostly we freeze into self-centered, go-nowhere acedia.

True freedom, to my mind, is to be found in the dance, in the art of navigating the tension between self-interest and our love and congruence with things that are bigger, whether it be the collective, the planet, God.

It requires reclaiming the language of nuance, of bravely mucking about in the grey, engaging in philosophical complexity and uncertainty.

It means steering away from the binary-talking leaders, toward those who are comfortable leading us through the grey, the uncertainty, our complex emotions, and away from our self-interest to “bigger”, to the wonderful storyline of our humanity. “I had a dream…”, “Ask not what your country can do for you…”, “We are only as strong as our weakest link…”

This is our great challenge as we face pandemics, epidemics, climate breakdown and more in coming years.

To this end…

I enjoyed this read about the “mind-set that’s tearing us apart – essentialising”. David Brooks argues that we need to both see the world as groups or types (we can’t let cancel culture go too far), but also as persons. Not either-or. Both. He writes that a hopeful future, “would mean constantly toggling back and forward between seeing groups and seeing people” - Yes, the tension dance.

And I took time to wrestle through this nuanced rundown of how rigidly talking in “generations” is factually unfounded.

I also listened to this brilliant Ezra Klein Show chat this week with poet and thinker Maggie Nelson. She argues,

Freedom is a practice.

As opposed to a one-time emancipatory event. You gotta lean into it, sweat it…not sit back and wait for it to be given out (which would be a very un-free way to go about things).

She also points out that much of modern life sees us choose unfreedom. We hand over our leisure hours, purchase power and choice to Amazon (this read argues Amazon Prime is the company’s most terrifying invention and warns us against signing up). We are slaves to fashion; private schooling; “you might like this” prompts on Netflix; and queues for the baked goods that someone else tells us are the best in town. We don’t want to engage our political rights…because it’s too hard.

We allow binary-talking leaders with no vision for our collective future to stay in power…but whinge when their binary approach locks us down.

It’s all very paradoxical.

And only practicing nuance and dancing and agency (within joy-making boundaries that prod us to rise, rise, rise to bigger, bigger, bigger), and artfully applying our moral compass to the collective, will see us wrestle our way to real freedom.


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SaintsSeptember

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The term Draconian has been used a lot, with them seemingly literally believing it.

First Draco's claim to fame was actually documenting the laws. Prior to that ,law was oral and punishment was pretty much at the discretion of the authority.
The laws which were in line with common punishments at the time , were in fact harsh, with Death being common, even for minor thefts etc.
Under "Draconian" Victorian covid rules, you can get fined for breaching covid rules , which may have spread a virus, which may have caused the death of many people.
 

Elroo

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Anti -vaccinations, anti-5G and a plot to kidnap the Premier and throw him in a hole dug in his backyard!



An anti-lockdown protester accused of lighting a phone tower on fire because it carried 5G allegedly told police he dug a large hole in his backyard to imprison Premier Daniel Andrews.

Police accuse carpenter Nathan Glover, 44, of deliberately setting a Mount Eliza Telstra phone tower on fire that was about 1.5 kilometres from his home, about 2.20am last Thursday.
There they found a six by one-and-a-half metre hole in his backyard. Police allege Mr Glover told them he had dug the hole to imprison Premier Daniel Andrews.

Mr Glover is on bail on charges of using a telecommunication device to harass and menace after allegedly posting on Facebook, under the profile name “nathan.glover.756”, that he was intending to capture and arrest Mr Andrews and put him before a “kangaroo court” on October 26 last year.

He allegedly added that he had the premier’s address, but he couldn’t capture him as his house was heavily guarded. He asked his followers to alert him to Mr Andrew’s whereabouts and movements.
 
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Lethality

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Joe Rogan is not so up for an open exchange of ideas when he has his anti-vaccination barrow to push. Even when he has a seriously qualified doctor sitting opposite him, who agreed to crossover from MSM to have a dialogue with him. All of a sudden Joe Rogan becomes as shrill as any of the cable news activists that he claims to oppose.

CNN were a bit misleading in saying Joe took horse dewormer, that's the extent of their sins as far as I can tell. It's clickbait. However at the end of the day Ivermectin may be a legitimate and celebrated drug and all, but it's not approved for COVID as far as I'm aware. Joe pointed out that he was prescribed it by a doctor for human use, as though that means anything in relation to this current pandemic. He might have gotten it for an unrelated problem. It might be concerning if a doctor prescribed it for his COVID.
 

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Around 1 in 5 Australian scientists surveyed by the Australian Science Media Centre (AusSMC) said they experienced death threats and/or threats of physical or sexual violence after speaking to the media about COVID-19. The AusSMC also worked with the journal Nature and the Science Media Centres in New Zealand, the UK, Germany, Canada, and Taiwan to see if the same was true for scientists internationally. Nature’s poll, found an even higher proportion of negative experiences among a larger group of respondents with 15 per cent reporting death threats and 22 per cent saying they received threats of physical or sexual violence. The results, which are not peer-reviewed, represent the experiences of the 50 Australian scientists and 321 international scientists who chose to respond to the survey. They are not a random sample of researchers who have given media interviews on COVID-19.
 

Jibroni

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However at the end of the day Ivermectin may be a legitimate and celebrated drug and all, but it's not approved for COVID as far as I'm aware. Joe pointed out that he was prescribed it by a doctor for human use, as though that means anything in relation to this current pandemic. He might have gotten it for an unrelated problem. It might be concerning if a doctor prescribed it for his COVID.
Many doctors are using Ivermectin despite the negativity. Joe was referred to it by this guy:

Ivermectin will not be allowed to be an effective treatment (Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein) (odysee.com)
 

SaintsSeptember

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Many doctors are using Ivermectin despite the negativity. Joe was referred to it by this guy:

Ivermectin will not be allowed to be an effective treatment (Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein) (odysee.com)
Many more doctors are not.
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n 2021, Fred Wagshul, a member of the FLCCC prescribed iivernectin for a patient in a hospital in Ohio where he did not have admitting privileges. The patient's wife secured a court order ordering his doctors to administer ivermectin, which was overridden by a higher court. In his order, the higher court judge stated that "there can be no doubt that the medical and scientific communities do not support the use of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19"
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Its like saying many Australians are choosing not to be vaccinated.
Its just as true to say that many Australians have extremely low IQ.

In fact it might be the same groups of Australians.
 

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