Covid-19 Antivaxxers, extremism and the Coalition

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Pie eyed

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Cafes are allowed to discriminate against vaccinated or unvaccinated people under existing laws relating to property and access

What is not appropriate is governments mandating vaccination or employers terminating employees unreasonably


Identifying the issue in a debate is important
Are you forgetting that is was, and as far as I know still is, Morrisons position that the decision is up to the employer.

State Governments are employers.
 

Pie eyed

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Saint

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great post.....thank you


I would suggest it is reasonable to mandate fully approved vaccinations (not just emergency use) in aged care and other segments of health care. It should be noted there is no evidence mandating flu vaccines results in better health outcomes for patients as the flu vax doesn't prevent one from getting the flu it reduces the symptoms. As a result people turn up to work sick and spread the disease. However it does reduce absenteeism.

Blanket mandates over entire industries where it is beyond reasonable, is unhelpful, divisive and likely unlawful. I'm sure one could come up with a debate for why police and FIFO workers need it but until the provisional "emergency use only" is cleared, that aspect of the decision tree isn't reached.

and yes politicians have been unhelpful with their politics rather than a calm "let's get vaccinated". I don't expect much from any politician but we should not do Australian politics a disservice and reference anything Lambie and Hanson are saying or doing.

THe problem is that pre-existing conditions for people who will be more susceptible to serious harm from COVID include everyday problems like Asthma, obesity, lung disease, liver diseases. ANd it's not just the employees that employers would have to be responsible for, it's also their families.

Imagine the stack of lawsuits if parents of employees start dying because the employer allowed unvaccinated people into their workplace with a hands-off approach.

Let alone WorkSafe. Any employer who allows unvaccinated people onto their premises is opening themselves up to lawsuits. And it's happened before. Cigarette smoking is banned because it endangers people with 2nd hand smoke.
 

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Power Raid

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Imagine the media reaction if someone of Arabic background had done this to say, frydenberg? It'd be news with half hourly updates for at least a week and Dutton would be frothing at the mouth daily in parliament.

It's genuinely only a matter of time until we have a terrorist attack here from a Brenton Tarrant type character who will have consumed all the American style right wing rubbish, just as Tarrant did.

Will be really curious to see how conservative politicians, their voters and the commercial media try to wash their hands of all the blood after the fact.

he bought a house in August; this is an excuse to leave his electorate.

It doesn't excuse attacks on any politician and worse their family. but it's almost humorous to buy a new home in August and come settlement, find an excuse to tell the local electorate.
 

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TheBrownDog
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THe problem is that pre-existing conditions for people who will be more susceptible to serious harm from COVID include everyday problems like Asthma, obesity, lung disease, liver diseases. ANd it's not just the employees that employers would have to be responsible for, it's also their families.

Imagine the stack of lawsuits if parents of employees start dying because the employer allowed unvaccinated people into their workplace with a hands-off approach.

Let alone WorkSafe. Any employer who allows unvaccinated people onto their premises is opening themselves up to lawsuits. And it's happened before. Cigarette smoking is banned because it endangers people with 2nd hand smoke.

what a giant leap given you can catch covid from vaccinated and unvaccinated people AND the employees do not have covid

perhaps if the employees had covid and the employer was aware, then this becomes a work place issue


but otherwise no, just as it is for any other disease
 

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Are you forgetting that is was, and as far as I know still is, Morrisons position that the decision is up to the employer.

State Governments are employers.

1) my position is governments should not mandate or legislate
2) it is the employers decision and subject to a judges determination to be lawful or otherwise
 

Saint

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what a giant leap given you can catch covid from vaccinated and unvaccinated people AND the employees do not have covid

perhaps if the employees had covid and the employer was aware, then this becomes a work place issue


but otherwise no, just as it is for any other disease

Except an unvaccinated person is 10x more likely to have the disease than a vaccinated person. So by allowing them entry, it's exposing staff to more risk.

The employer only needs to know the employee could have COVID and they should be doing something about it.

You know a drunk employee operating machinery might kill somebody (maybe 10x more likely?). Therefore you have to have policies in place (training, random testing) to reduce the likelihood of drunk people operating machinery.

Just because not every drunk person operating machinery kills somebody doesn't mean you can't do anything about it and aren't liable if somebody does get injured.
 

Boronia67

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Neither Matthew Guy nor Morrison have explicitly condemned this man, nor far right organisers.

Three state Liberal MPs were in attendance at a protest where a gallows was erected, nooses were hung and known extremist groups were present.

The names of those MPs were David Davis, Craig Ondarchie and Bernie Finn. None hsve been censured or criticised by opposition leader Matthew Guy.

Do Labor or Green politicians condemn or criticise communist who attend climate change protests ?
 

Boronia67

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Scott Morrison refuses to condemn Trump for inciting ‘distressing’ violence in US Capitol


Has Albo condemned the black lives matter violence that caused far more damage and took more lifes than what occurred at the capital ?
 

Northalives

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great post.....thank you


I would suggest it is reasonable to mandate fully approved vaccinations (not just emergency use) in aged care and other segments of health care. It should be noted there is no evidence mandating flu vaccines results in better health outcomes for patients as the flu vax doesn't prevent one from getting the flu it reduces the symptoms. As a result people turn up to work sick and spread the disease. However it does reduce absenteeism.

Blanket mandates over entire industries where it is beyond reasonable, is unhelpful, divisive and likely unlawful. I'm sure one could come up with a debate for why police and FIFO workers need it but until the provisional "emergency use only" is cleared, that aspect of the decision tree isn't reached.

and yes politicians have been unhelpful with their politics rather than a calm "let's get vaccinated". I don't expect much from any politician but we should not do Australian politics a disservice and reference anything Lambie and Hanson are saying or doing.
We are living in world which is in crisis. Holland is sending people to Germany for emergency treatment due to Covid because it's hospital system has been overwhelmed. The continued playing down of the significance of Covid by the bean counters and those who do their bidding is extreme. We need to do what is best for all, not just a very vocal minority and the those blinded by gold fever and even though I agree with you about mandating industry wide vaccinations in "normal" times, these are far from "normal" times and extreme measures must be taken to save lives, health and the economy.

As for Lambie, I ain't no admirer or supporter that's for sure, but I just thought that her full on rebuttal of Hanson and all things knuckdragger was fabulous and worth sharing.
 

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Northalives

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TNKV6Zcw.jpeg
 

Boronia67

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Northalives

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View attachment 1286740
Completely and utterly out of context.

The climate change protest was depicting what climate change means for our children and their children whereas the protests outside the Victorian Parliament, were nothing less than a lynch mob wanting to hang Daniel Andrews. One was a representation of what climate change means, the other is an incitement to lynch/kill the Premier of Victoria.

Credlin is the one who fed Abbott the lines that there is “no evidence” the justice system discriminates against Indigenous Australians concerning the disproportionate rates of incarceration for Aboriginals, she advised him to stand in front of a lynch mob in Canberra in front of disgusting placards of Gillard and add to the salivating hatred on display, she advised him that "stop the boats" was a winner as was locking up children in detention, Credlin advised him to say that those people being slaughtered in Iraq and Syria should stay there and fight and not flee, she told Abbott to make the racist ranting of Andrew Bolt an election issue by saying he will repeal section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act to allow racists and bigots carte blanche to vilify and to deny that the stolen generation actually exists, Credlin was Abbott's adviser when he said that Gillard wouldn't get death threats if she just stopped doing what she was doing etc etc etc etc and now, the dog Credlin has taken a protest that showed what climate change means to our children through crude art and put's it in the same category of the Morrison/Trumpian thugs incitement to kill!

Oh well, she won an media award for excellence in journalism for her far-right, monosyllabic commentary which the idiots that take her seriously think is actually news!
 

Boronia67

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Completely and utterly out of context.

The climate change protest was depicting what climate change means for our children and their children whereas the protests outside the Victorian Parliament, were nothing less than a lynch mob wanting to hang Daniel Andrews. One was a representation of what climate change means, the other is an incitement to lynch/kill the Premier of Victoria.

Credlin is the one who fed Abbott the lines that there is “no evidence” the justice system discriminates against Indigenous Australians concerning the disproportionate rates of incarceration for Aboriginals, she advised him to stand in front of a lynch mob in Canberra in front of disgusting placards of Gillard and add to the salivating hatred on display, she advised him that "stop the boats" was a winner as was locking up children in detention, Credlin advised him to say that those people being slaughtered in Iraq and Syria should stay there and fight and not flee, she told Abbott to make the racist ranting of Andrew Bolt an election issue by saying he will repeal section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act to allow racists and bigots carte blanche to vilify and to deny that the stolen generation actually exists, Credlin was Abbott's adviser when he said that Gillard wouldn't get death threats if she just stopped doing what she was doing etc etc etc etc and now, the dog Credlin has taken a protest that showed what climate change means to our children through crude art and put's it in the same category of the Morrison/Trumpian thugs incitement to kill!

Oh well, she won an media award for excellence in journalism for her far-right, monosyllabic commentary which the idiots that take her seriously think is actually news!

99.9 % of the people who were protesting in what might have been the biggest protest ever in Melbourne were doing so because they were concerned about the state government having too much power under previous state of emergency legislation and its proposed replacement. Given that Melbourne has spent more time in lockdown than any other city it's a reasonable position to take.

Plenty of people who attend climate change protest openly admit that complete global socialism is their objective. Socialism is responsible for the deaths of well over 100 million people. That is incitement to kill.
 

Northalives

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99.9 % of the people who were protesting in what might have been the biggest protest ever in Melbourne were doing so because they were concerned about the state government having too much power under previous state of emergency legislation and its proposed replacement. Given that Melbourne has spent more time in lockdown than any other city it's a reasonable position to take.

Plenty of people who attend climate change protest openly admit that complete global socialism is their objective. Socialism is responsible for the deaths of well over 100 million people. That is incitement to kill.
where dya read that? Did Sky News tell you that? The people marching in Melbourne have been conned and used by the Christian Nationalists and all manner of lunatics, many of the participants are lunatics, to decry the what would be a far more transparent piece of legislation that exists in other states. The state of emergency type powers are a rolling type of power that needs to be ratified on the floor of the Parliament before it is extended and one of the greatest criticisms of Victoria's response was that it acted to late. This law is to "future proof", if you like, the need to recall parliament to extend the emergency powers instead of acting swiftly.

It will also take the repsonsibilty of actions, initial and on going, away from the Health Department and give it to the Minister where it should be. If the hero of the morons that were marching, Morrison, had done this right from the off, that is that he and the relevant Minister had taken responsibility instead of what was ostensibly a border security and intelligence and a customs and quarantine issue instead of handing it over to public servants from the Department of Health, then we would not have had 2,000 deaths and thousands of people with significant on going health issues nor the massive disruptions to our lives.

The legislation makes it a requirement to publish the health advice that the Minister uses to make whatever decision he or she makes. This makes it the best law concerning Covid decisions of any Australian State but what do we see, ignorant people marching against something they know nothing about and/or, right-wing Christian Nationalists, Right wing Supremacists and antivaxx morons! We even see people coming on here saying, "Plenty of people who attend climate change protest openly admit that complete global socialism is their objective. Socialism is responsible for the deaths of well over 100 million people. That is incitement to kill." What an incredibly preposterous statement!

People from all walks of life, from right across the political spectrum; socialists, centrists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, conservatives, rich, poor, gay, straight, you name it and they are terrified of what climate change means and what is happening in the world today because of UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM. Most of the people on those climate change protests/marches don't want to se the violent or otherwise overthrow of capitalism, they want to see regulations forcing corporations/businesses into being responsible in their actions.

The idiots that were carrying nooses and inciting violence and death upon the Premier and others are imbeciles and thugs and are the children of UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM, you know, free rein to do whatever the f**k they want to do with no thought or respect for others and when the Governments that we have elected under our democratic processes undertake the necessary measure to protect all of us, they go sp****c!
 

Brad Goodman

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where dya read that? Did Sky News tell you that? The people marching in Melbourne have been conned and used by the Christian Nationalists and all manner of lunatics, many of the participants are lunatics, to decry the what would be a far more transparent piece of legislation that exists in other states. The state of emergency type powers are a rolling type of power that needs to be ratified on the floor of the Parliament before it is extended and one of the greatest criticisms of Victoria's response was that it acted to late. This law is to "future proof", if you like, the need to recall parliament to extend the emergency powers instead of acting swiftly.

It will also take the repsonsibilty of actions, initial and on going, away from the Health Department and give it to the Minister where it should be. If the hero of the morons that were marching, Morrison, had done this right from the off, that is that he and the relevant Minister had taken responsibility instead of what was ostensibly a border security and intelligence and a customs and quarantine issue instead of handing it over to public servants from the Department of Health, then we would not have had 2,000 deaths and thousands of people with significant on going health issues nor the massive disruptions to our lives.

The legislation makes it a requirement to publish the health advice that the Minister uses to make whatever decision he or she makes. This makes it the best law concerning Covid decisions of any Australian State but what do we see, ignorant people marching against something they know nothing about and/or, right-wing Christian Nationalists, Right wing Supremacists and antivaxx morons! We even see people coming on here saying, "Plenty of people who attend climate change protest openly admit that complete global socialism is their objective. Socialism is responsible for the deaths of well over 100 million people. That is incitement to kill." What an incredibly preposterous statement!

People from all walks of life, from right across the political spectrum; socialists, centrists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, conservatives, rich, poor, gay, straight, you name it and they are terrified of what climate change means and what is happening in the world today because of UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM. Most of the people on those climate change protests/marches don't want to se the violent or otherwise overthrow of capitalism, they want to see regulations forcing corporations/businesses into being responsible in their actions.

The idiots that were carrying nooses and inciting violence and death upon the Premier and others are imbeciles and thugs and are the children of UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM, you know, free rein to do whatever the f**k they want to do with no thought or respect for others and when the Governments that we have elected under our democratic processes undertake the necessary measure to protect all of us, they go sp****c!

Don’t waste your time, people like that aren’t worth your energy, or our oxygen.
 

Pessimistic

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Knowing some of these people, and how the far right content they consume is mostly American political content, then they’re probably under the impression that Australia is just a part of America and what happens there dictates what happened here.

For instance one far right dude at work who’d been brainwashed by all this far right crap was going on a rant just before the US election about Biden being a tool of globalists and the media not being fair to Trump who had done a “marvellous” job.

I asked why it was relevant to Australia and he responded that if Biden was elected he would destroy the US economy with his “communist” policies therefore the world would enter a depression, and hewed petrified as his kid’s futures would be stuffed etc

And with the current government’s obsession with the Australian military becoming one with the US military one couldn’t really blame the far right for believing Australia is just an appendage of the USA

the US economy really doesn’t dictate like it used to. Especially to a country whose major trading partner and source of investment is CHEY-NA
 

Pessimistic

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We are living in world which is in crisis. Holland is sending people to Germany for emergency treatment due to Covid because it's hospital system has been overwhelmed. The continued playing down of the significance of Covid by the bean counters and those who do their bidding is extreme. We need to do what is best for all, not just a very vocal minority and the those blinded by gold fever and even though I agree with you about mandating industry wide vaccinations in "normal" times, these are far from "normal" times and extreme measures must be taken to save lives, health and the economy.

As for Lambie, I ain't no admirer or supporter that's for sure, but I just thought that her full on rebuttal of Hanson and all things knuckdragger was fabulous and worth sharing.

same, but I love her passion and openness. Refreshing. She’s for Tasmania and Vets. What you see is what you get
 

Ned_Flanders

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99.9 % of the people who were protesting in what might have been the biggest protest ever in Melbourne were doing so because they were concerned about the state government having too much power under previous state of emergency legislation and its proposed replacement. Given that Melbourne has spent more time in lockdown than any other city it's a reasonable position to take.

Plenty of people who attend climate change protest openly admit that complete global socialism is their objective. Socialism is responsible for the deaths of well over 100 million people. That is incitement to kill.

It wasn't the biggest protest ever.

The Vietnam War protests were larger, and as such also had a much higher proportion of the states population in attendance.

Why do millennials have zero idea of anything that happened before the PS3?
 

Brunswick Trap King

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It wasn't the biggest protest ever.

The Vietnam War protests were larger, and as such also had a much higher proportion of the states population in attendance.

Why do millennials have zero idea of anything that happened before the PS3?
Think he's a boomer, bro. It's normally boomers who are so 'reds under the bed'.
 

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