Expansion Apple Isle Showdown: Tas Govt threatens to end Hawks, North deals if no plan for 19th side

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Le Grille

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It proves my point, as it is a closed State league without pathway to the AFL. Once you offer a pathway to the big time, then support follows.

I'd suggest however, if Bendigo, who ironically made an application to join the VFL in the 1950's, was given an opportunity to join the AFL, that attendances and support would naturally follow.

Just as I think a 3rd Perth team would gain enough support to sustain itself and grow into a long-term Div1/2 prospect, as would Hobart and Launceston

This thread is about the 19th team, and I think it should go to Launceston, branded as the Nth Tasmania Devils.

Obviously, Hobart would quickly follow, and then game on for the rest of the country.
It’s absolutely a fair comparison, that was the feedback at the time “why would I go to a second rate competition” it’s more of an indication of the current football landscape than 1950s bendigo


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Tonatopia

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It’s absolutely a fair comparison, that was the feedback at the time “why would I go to a second rate competition” it’s more of an indication of the current football landscape than 1950s bendigo
If a Hobart team was introduced in Div2, with a pathway to possibly enter Div1, then I suggest the community would get on board.

Watching GWS and GC finding their feet in the big league was cringe worthy. They should be made to deserve their entry. Forget this welfare mentality.

It's got nothing to do with the Domestic State Leagues.
 
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Bicco

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It proves my point, as it is a closed State league without pathway to the AFL. Once you offer a pathway to the big time, then support follows.
Every player has a pathway to the AFL. It's called the Draft. The reason people don't watch 2nd tier football is that it's not as good as AFL. Even with a 'pathway to the big time' that's not going to change. Unless you've got some hidden data that proves your hypothesis? That people will suddenly support a local game due to the implementation of a tier system. That sponsors are on board with this? That the players union wants to end the current Draft/salary cap agreements? The obvious result being that the top 5% of players wealth will grow massively while the bottom players will earn less than now. Support follows success. Only due to the 'underdog' will any Div 2 team get support.
When you've got approval from all of the afore mentioned I'll listen. Until then, go away
 

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Tonatopia

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Every player has a pathway to the AFL. It's called the Draft. The reason people don't watch 2nd tier football is that it's not as good as AFL. Even with a 'pathway to the big time' that's not going to change. Unless you've got some hidden data that proves your hypothesis? That people will suddenly support a local game due to the implementation of a tier system. That sponsors are on board with this? That the players union wants to end the current Draft/salary cap agreements? The obvious result being that the top 5% of players wealth will grow massively while the bottom players will earn less than now. Support follows success. Only due to the 'underdog' will any Div 2 team get support.
When you've got approval from all of the afore mentioned I'll listen. Until then, go away
Would you rather follow NMFC in Div1 during a bottoming out/rebuild process, or support them in Div2 during a rebuild, while winning games, finals and in a couple of years, maybe a Premiership and onto Div1?

If your answer is Div1, then you don't know what pain is.

If your answer is Div2, then you have an integrated divisional league.

And you can't get approval by a majority of club's, until you can have an open forum to discuss the issues.

Currently, Tasmania, ACT and NT, along with major regional cities, do not have an opportunity to participate in our National League. I say we should find a way to include them.
There is widespread community support for this to happen.
And I believe it can be financially viable, the only obstacle is the inability for the AFL and football community to let go of the current model.
 

Pessimistic

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Would you rather follow NMFC in Div1 during a bottoming out/rebuild process, or support them in Div2 during a rebuild, while winning games, finals and in a couple of years, maybe a Premiership and onto Div1?

If your answer is Div1, then you don't know what pain is.

If your answer is Div2, then you have an integrated divisional league.

And you can't get approval by a majority of club's, until you can have an open forum to discuss the issues.

Currently, Tasmania, ACT and NT, along with major regional cities, do not have an opportunity to participate in our National League. I say we should find a way to include them.
There is widespread community support for this to happen.
And I believe it can be financially viable, the only obstacle is the inability for the AFL and football community to let go of the current model.
‘and big money soccer leagues are just itching to drop the concept
 

Bicco

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Would you rather follow NMFC in Div1 during a bottoming out/rebuild process, or support them in Div2 during a rebuild, while winning games, finals and in a couple of years, maybe a Premiership and onto Div1?

If your answer is Div1, then you don't know what pain is.

If your answer is Div2, then you have an integrated divisional league.

And you can't get approval by a majority of club's, until you can have an open forum to discuss the issues.

Currently, Tasmania, ACT and NT, along with major regional cities, do not have an opportunity to participate in our National League. I say we should find a way to include them.
There is widespread community support for this to happen.
And I believe it can be financially viable, the only obstacle is the inability for the AFL and football community to let go of the current model.
So you have no evidence that anyone, any team, any competition, any sponsor or any players union wants this idea. Please show me where anyone of any note, in the game or otherwise, has said or agreed with even the premise of what you're suggesting, let alone the details.
You are running a fool's errand with this idea my friend.
 

Tonatopia

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So you have no evidence that anyone, any team, any competition, any sponsor or any players union wants this idea. Please show me where anyone of any note, in the game or otherwise, has said or agreed with even the premise of what you're suggesting, let alone the details.
You are running a fool's errand with this idea my friend.
They said the same about Bitcoin.
It'll never work. Now it's a $T asset.

But this concept is not even revolutionary. The entire European Football is based on this format, and our game has organic suburban roots, akin to Europe.

I am just challenging institutionalised corporate thinking, in favour of natural, democratic, free market principles.
 

The_Wookie

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Your highness,
Why are there so many major regional football grounds that have either been redeveloped, or have plans for major redevelopment, funded by Government?

Do you want me to name them?
I guarantee that they arent being developed just in case some crackpot wages a one man war against the AFl and reaility
 

Tonatopia

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I guarantee that they arent being developed just in case some crackpot wages a one man war against the AFl and reaility
Not True your highness.
They are being developed to an AFL standard, in order to attract AFL games, even preseason games.

If, the opportunity was presented to actually have their own side, you watch the political and corporate community come together.

But as it stands, the AFL are stuck in a NFL corporate model.

The current system is not good for our game.
 
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Bicco

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They said the same about Bitcoin.
It'll never work. Now it's a $T asset.

But this concept is not even revolutionary. The entire European Football is based on this format, and our game has organic suburban roots, akin to Europe.

I am just challenging institutionalised corporate thinking, in favour of natural, democratic, free market principles.
So who, besides you, thinks this is a good idea?
 

Tonatopia

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This literally does not support a single thing youve said. Hes very specifically talking about including a team from the NT and Tasmania in the existing AFL structure.
And tell me, if your going to include Darwin with 150k, how can you preclude other football cities/regions which have similar populations?

If Darwin comes in, the structural model changes and the flood gates open.

Obviously, as it stands, Darwin would not be able to compete with the Superclubs without longterm welfare dependence.

This notion of longterm equalisation is not realistic, when cities with 150k start entering teams.
We need natural hierarchical structure, which is what the ladder, and moreso, a divisional system represent.

It's glaringly obvious.
 

The_Wookie

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And tell me, if your going to include Darwin with 150k, how can you preclude other football cities/regions which have similar populations?
Its pretty easy. Darwin is the capital of the NT and has government backing. That said, Darwin probably isnt going to happen, the funding shortfall is too great.

If Darwin comes in, the structural model changes and the flood gates open.
No it doesnt and no they dont.

Obviously, as it stands, Darwin would not be able to compete with the Superclubs without longterm welfare dependence.
Darwin is not remotely financially viable. 15m revenue gap already forecast. No one is going to take that, the clubs wont vote for another GWS/Gold Coast.

This notion of longterm equalisation is not realistic, when cities with 150k start entering teams.
a city. Not cities. No one else has a bid prepared. No one else is preparing one.

We need natural hierarchical structure, which is what the ladder, and moreso, a divisional system represent.
YOU need it. I dont know why you do, but here we are in a thread that has nothing to do with the subject.

It's glaringly obvious.
Its not.

Darwin would have state government support - just like Tasmania. No other regional area team is supported or proposed by anyone except you.
 

Shoei

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If a Hobart team was introduced in Div2, with a pathway to possibly enter Div1, then I suggest the community would get on board.

Watching GWS and GC finding their feet in the big league was cringe worthy. They should be made to deserve their entry. Forget this welfare mentality.

It's got nothing to do with the Domestic State Leagues.
Also club supported: Melbourne.

Was only 10 years ago that the mighty AFL club Melbourne Demons were receiving millions of dollars in bailouts, appointed AFL funded coaches and couldn't keep sponsors. Oh and lets not talk about the dozens of first round draft picks over the last 10 years from the draft, that thing you want to abolish, that's keeping Melbourne barely relevant.

Let's have a look at Melbourne's 2019 financials too (the last non-covid season);

MFC financial report 2019;

"The statutory loss for the year is $1.975m"
"The Club received distributions from the AFL of $16.324m in 2019..."

And lets quote you one more time for completion;

"Firstly, each team will enter via their own capacity. The team's listed are just an example. I'd suggest that a few teams may be driven to success by private/ corporate ownership, but at the end of the day, the free market will dictate proceedings, not AFL socialist engineering."

Hypocrite.
 

Tonatopia

Team Captain
Sep 30, 2018
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Also club supported: Melbourne.

Was only 10 years ago that the mighty AFL club Melbourne Demons were receiving millions of dollars in bailouts, appointed AFL funded coaches and couldn't keep sponsors. Oh and lets not talk about the dozens of first round draft picks over the last 10 years from the draft, that thing you want to abolish, that's keeping Melbourne barely relevant.

Let's have a look at Melbourne's 2019 financials too (the last non-covid season);

MFC financial report 2019;

"The statutory loss for the year is $1.975m"
"The Club received distributions from the AFL of $16.324m in 2019..."

And lets quote you one more time for completion;

"Firstly, each team will enter via their own capacity. The team's listed are just an example. I'd suggest that a few teams may be driven to success by private/ corporate ownership, but at the end of the day, the free market will dictate proceedings, not AFL socialist engineering."
You prove my point.
We should have been relegated or forced to find another Joe Gutnick.

Your comments support a divisional structure.
Thanks.
 

Rimmer

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I think we are missing the most important point here, the choice of club mascot. There is the ever ongoing internal friction between Launceston in the north and Hobart in the south. They need to finally put their heads together. Let me therefore offer the perfect compromise, the new team should be called the Tassy Two-Heads. :cool:
 

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