Apple Isle Showdown: Tas Govt threatens to end Hawks, North deals if no plan for 19th side

[Mr Taswegian]

Politically they might get the support of a few pollies & the Launy City Council Burghers, but logistically they have no case.

Its really a matter of having enough support facilities for a new club. Hobart is simply the better option.



As far as the games go, It's still planned to split the games. Initially an upgrade of York park will see it attract the bigger games.

Launceston to Scottsdale is about an hour. Add another 2 hrs to Hobart.

You can make it a weekend away!!

I will definitely like to make it a weekend away in Hobart some of the games. The city of Hobart is my favourite place in Tasmania and believe me when I say it needs to be based in Hobart to be viable.

 

[madmug]

I will definitely like to make it a weekend away in Hobart some of the games. The city of Hobart is my favourite place in Tasmania and believe me when I say it needs to be based in Hobart to be viable.

It'll need support from the North & South to be viable.

 

[Mr Taswegian]

It'll need support from the North & South to be viable.

Yes that is right but I'm just saying it needs to be based in Hobart to be viable with some games up here in the north.

 

[DERIBERATE]

Source?

Tried finding one but Google not quite helpful

 

[Quivorir]

Mr Taswegian speaks on behalf of all of Tasmania guys.

 

[madmug]

Mr Taswegian speaks on behalf of all of Tasmania guys.

Mr T.

He's actually the Premier, Peter Gutwein.

Please show some suitable deference,

 

[Mr Taswegian]

Mr T.

He's actually the Premier, Peter Gutwein.

Please show some suitable deference,

No just a passionate footy fan like everyone on here.

 

[Bicco]

I, for one, am ready to eat humble pie after seeing the success of investing millions into the NSW and QLD Junior football programs over the last 20 years. The introduction of GWS and GC has been a boon for bringing youngsters into the game. With one player drafted from each state, the AFL must surely hold its head high with the evident success of their investment decisions. /s.
FMD. How embarrassing.

 

[Mr Taswegian]

I, for one, am ready to eat humble pie after seeing the success of investing millions into the NSW and QLD Junior football programs over the last 20 years. The introduction of GWS and GC has been a boon for bringing youngsters into the game. With one player drafted from each state, the AFL must surely hold its head high with the evident success of their investment decisions. /s.
FMD. How embarrassing.

Hopefully the AFL will do the same to set a Tassie team up.

 

[The_Wookie]

I, for one, am ready to eat humble pie after seeing the success of investing millions into the NSW and QLD Junior football programs over the last 20 years. The introduction of GWS and GC has been a boon for bringing youngsters into the game. With one player drafted from each state, the AFL must surely hold its head high with the evident success of their investment decisions. /s.
FMD. How embarrassing.

If only the investment was based on a single years drafting....

 

[Kappa]

I, for one, am ready to eat humble pie after seeing the success of investing millions into the NSW and QLD Junior football programs over the last 20 years. The introduction of GWS and GC has been a boon for bringing youngsters into the game. With one player drafted from each state, the AFL must surely hold its head high with the evident success of their investment decisions. /s.
FMD. How embarrassing.

haven’t the swans brought in tonnes of highly touted local kids in the past few years? Think the giants also took a Canberra kid and the lions took a couple of local products last year that 10 years ago would’ve been lost to the afl system.

 

[Bicco]

If only the investment was based on a single years drafting....

Last 4 years of NSW draftees are 7, 1, 8 and 1 this year. Last year had 3 Rookies and two Cat B academy players yet to play a game. 3 went in the main draft last year which should be used more as a yard stick than cat B academy players.
I guess it depends on how long you want to flog a dead horse.

 

[The_Wookie]

Last 4 years of NSW draftees are 7, 1, 8 and 1 this year. Last year had 3 Rookies and two Cat B academy players yet to play a game. 3 went in the main draft last year which should be used more as a yard stick than cat B academy players.
I guess it depends on how long you want to flog a dead horse.

I guess it depends on whether you think the entire aim of the investment is to simply drive recruitment to the AFL.

Hows the sport itself grown since 2007? How about AFLW and womens footy in general. Junior numbers? club support numbers? AFL recruitment isnt, wasnt, and wont be the biggest part of the AFL puzzle in these states.

 

[Bjo187]

Just out of curiosity. What do you think would be a good alternative arrangement if both gc and gws were not an off field success after being in the competition for 25 years.
You would have to consider relocating GWS to Canberra permanently and having them play 3 games still in Western Sydney.
And Gold Coast you would just give that licence to Tasmania and have every team in the competition have to play one home game their per year, just to keep a presence on the coast. Meaning 9 games on the gold coast per year to keep the flame alive. It would actually be a lot cheaper.

 

[Bicco]

I guess it depends on whether you think the entire aim of the investment is to simply drive recruitment to the AFL.

Hows the sport itself grown since 2007? How about AFLW and womens footy in general. Junior numbers? club support numbers? AFL recruitment isnt, wasnt, and wont be the biggest part of the AFL puzzle in these states.

What's the point of increased junior participation if not to increase the amount of elite talent?
AFLW is quite obviously a female competition and not the subject of discussion.
One of the biggest knocks on expansion teams is that they dilute the talent pool of available players to the existing clubs. Conversely, the main argument against this is that these new teams will 'grow the game' in non traditional areas. An obvious indicator of this success is the development of draftable talent to the competition as a whole.
For the past 25 years, there has been no change in the numbers of elite talent being drawn from NSW despite 10's of millions of dollars spent.

VFL/AFL Players from NSW-ACT Rams - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Like I said, flogging a dead horse.

 

[The_Wookie]

What's the point of increased junior participation if not to increase the amount of elite talent?

Elite talent is small part of the overall picture. 900 odd AFl players are a drop in the bucket compared then 390,000 that turn out each weekend for local club footy.

AFLW is quite obviously a female competition and not the subject of discussion.

Im sorry did I miss a memo somewhere that said the AFL was only spending money in Qld and NSW for the benefit of men and boys and the AFL?

One of the biggest knocks on expansion teams is that they dilute the talent pool of available players to the existing clubs. Conversely, the main argument against this is that these new teams will 'grow the game' in non traditional areas. An obvious indicator of this success is the development of draftable talent to the competition as a whole.

But not everything else that leads up to it apparently.

For the past 25 years, there has been no change in the numbers of elite talent being drawn from NSW despite 10's of millions of dollars spent.

VFL/AFL Players from NSW-ACT Rams - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Fortunately its not just about the AFL and the draft.

Like I said, flogging a dead horse.

Theres far more to growing the game than just being a feeding ground for AFL talent.

 

[Bicco]

Elite talent is small part of the overall picture. 900 odd AFl players are a drop in the bucket compared then 390,000 that turn out each weekend for local club footy.



Im sorry did I miss a memo somewhere that said the AFL was only spending money in Qld and NSW for the benefit of men and boys and the AFL?



But not everything else that leads up to it apparently.



Fortunately its not just about the AFL and the draft.



Theres far more to growing the game than just being a feeding ground for AFL talent.

My sarcastic comment was related to the amount of money the AFL has spent in NSW for the result of one drafted player from NSW in the 2021 draft. I posted it on this page because many of the discussions here are related to how little expenditure from the AFL Tasmania receives when compared to NSW. Tasmania also produced 1 player drafted with nowhere near the financial support over the last 10+ years. Yet the AFL is still struggling to see worth in investing an equal amount in Tasmania as it does in NSW. Especially relating to the establishment of a team.
To be clear, I think it's fantastic that more kids are playing AFL in NSW and QLD than previously. I do though think that this increase in junior participation should be leading to an increase of elite talent which in turn will mean more elite players and subsequently a better spectacle to watch. It is my opinion that if the same investment were to be made in Tasmania over the same time period, that Tasmania would be producing far more elite, draftable players than has been produced by NSW. Now or in the future. NSW and QLD both have huge populations with many, many talented athletes. It does seem though, that despite the financial investment by the AFL in these markets, that they are failing to attract these high end individuals to play the game. Thus, the investment in these markets is not improving the standards/spectacle of the elite men's competition of AFL. It is my opinion that if Tasmania was given the same support, that the state would produce more talent than has been by NSW or QLD, talent that would be spread through all clubs and subsequently lifting the overall standards of the men's AFL competition.

 

[Bjo187]

My sarcastic comment was related to the amount of money the AFL has spent in NSW for the result of one drafted player from NSW in the 2021 draft. I posted it on this page because many of the discussions here are related to how little expenditure from the AFL Tasmania receives when compared to NSW. Tasmania also produced 1 player drafted with nowhere near the financial support over the last 10+ years. Yet the AFL is still struggling to see worth in investing an equal amount in Tasmania as it does in NSW. Especially relating to the establishment of a team.
To be clear, I think it's fantastic that more kids are playing AFL in NSW and QLD than previously. I do though think that this increase in junior participation should be leading to an increase of elite talent which in turn will mean more elite players and subsequently a better spectacle to watch. It is my opinion that if the same investment were to be made in Tasmania over the same time period, that Tasmania would be producing far more elite, draftable players than has been produced by NSW. Now or in the future. NSW and QLD both have huge populations with many, many talented athletes. It does seem though, that despite the financial investment by the AFL in these markets, that they are failing to attract these high end individuals to play the game. Thus, the investment in these markets is not improving the standards/spectacle of the elite men's competition of AFL. It is my opinion that if Tasmania was given the same support, that the state would produce more talent than has been by NSW or QLD, talent that would be spread through all clubs and subsequently lifting the overall standards of the men's AFL competition.

Gotta say, what you say makes sense.

 

[jj15]

The Tas Gov really should be hiring 2-4 coaches in Tas right now that just work with 12-16 year olds full time.

 

[madmug]

The Tas Gov really should be hiring 2-4 coaches in Tas right now that just work with 12-16 year olds full time.

Perhaps the AFL should be looking after their own game better?

 

[jj15]

Perhaps the AFL should be looking after their own game better?

Yer for sure I was just thinking of things as a state we can do to keep momentum rolling.
There are only 22 Tasmanian players in the whole AFL left. Current projections will be 8-15 in the system in 5 years. We need more then that.

 

[Mr Taswegian]

Yer for sure I was just thinking of things as a state we can do to keep momentum rolling.
There are only 22 Tasmanian players in the whole AFL left. Current projections will be 8-15 in the system in 5 years. We need more then that.

Definitely need more than that,it just shows you how bad local footy has become in Tasmania.

 

[madmug]

Yer for sure I was just thinking of things as a state we can do to keep momentum rolling.
There are only 22 Tasmanian players in the whole AFL left. Current projections will be 8-15 in the system in 5 years. We need more then that.

Pushing for a professional club which is all about advertising the state for tourism, business & employment opportunities.

Getting kids to play the game is really up to the sport. Cricket, Basketball, netball, soccer do it. If the Government put big money into Football development, the others will demand the same sort of money.

 

[The_JHF_Clinic]

My sarcastic comment was related to the amount of money the AFL has spent in NSW for the result of one drafted player from NSW in the 2021 draft. I posted it on this page because many of the discussions here are related to how little expenditure from the AFL Tasmania receives when compared to NSW. Tasmania also produced 1 player drafted with nowhere near the financial support over the last 10+ years. Yet the AFL is still struggling to see worth in investing an equal amount in Tasmania as it does in NSW. Especially relating to the establishment of a team.
To be clear, I think it's fantastic that more kids are playing AFL in NSW and QLD than previously. I do though think that this increase in junior participation should be leading to an increase of elite talent which in turn will mean more elite players and subsequently a better spectacle to watch. It is my opinion that if the same investment were to be made in Tasmania over the same time period, that Tasmania would be producing far more elite, draftable players than has been produced by NSW. Now or in the future. NSW and QLD both have huge populations with many, many talented athletes. It does seem though, that despite the financial investment by the AFL in these markets, that they are failing to attract these high end individuals to play the game. Thus, the investment in these markets is not improving the standards/spectacle of the elite men's competition of AFL. It is my opinion that if Tasmania was given the same support, that the state would produce more talent than has been by NSW or QLD, talent that would be spread through all clubs and subsequently lifting the overall standards of the men's AFL competition.

I was involved in local footy in Tassie for almost 20 years and have done likewise in Qld since I moved here 4 years ago, a few of my observations:

- Growth in SE Qld junior footy has been huge since the introduction of the Suns. An AFLQ employee told me earlier this year that they’ve experienced 20% growth in SE Qld junior participation, every year for the past 5 years (the equivalent of 50-60 new junior teams). Those numbers cannot be dismissed and (IMO) justifies the investment because even if these kids don’t grow up to be elite players, hopefully they will be fans, members etc of AFL clubs and contribute to the growth of the game.

- With this huge growth it is difficult to obtain enough umpires, coaches etc for these additional junior teams. AFLQ are way better resourced than AFL Tas so they’re able to provide decent support in terms of umpire training, coach education etc. They also need to be doing this because the lack of football culture up here means there are less people willing to put their hand up to volunteer at local footy clubs.

- The Lions and Suns academies are doing great work in the elite talent space. I have no doubt that we will see some results from this in the coming years, but it might take another generation or two before the standard of competition in junior footy improves and we we see more draftees coming from Qld.

- Tassie is a completely different kettle of fish. I totally agree with you that they would produce more elite talent (right now) with composite investment, but that may not be the case in 20 years as SE Qld has 7x the population base of Tas.

- The neglect of Tasmanian footy from the AFL is shameful. 20 years ago, junior and local footy was so strong. Unfortunately, the administrators of the game have rested on their laurels and thought they could rely on the volunteers of local clubs doing all the heavy lifting for the sport in the state. Kids are playing less sport than they used to so the talent pool has shrunk. Also, junior basketball and soccer are attracting much bigger numbers in Tassie than they used to and I have no doubt that this is due to the greater emphasis they place on junior participation and development.

- Someone correct me if I’m wrong (I was too young to remember), but it seems to me that Tassie footy was in far better shape when it was administered by Football Tasmania (up until 2002). After this point in time it became AFL Tasmania and the sport has been in steady decline since then. Was this just an organisational name change or did it coincide with a change of leadership structure and greater control from the AFL?

- Having blow in AFL Tas CEO’s over the past decade has done nothing positive for the game in Tassie. Zero idea or care for the local context or challenges; moved on to new AFL roles at the first opportunity, and clearly didn’t challenge head office on the funding inequities that Tassie has suffered when compared with the Northern states. Personally, I think Tassie would be way better served by a local governing body like the SANFL or WAFC because when it comes to the AFL’s involvement in Tassie, everything they’ve touched turns to you know what.

 

[Bjo187]

I was involved in local footy in Tassie for almost 20 years and have done likewise in Qld since I moved here 4 years ago, a few of my observations:

- Growth in SE Qld junior footy has been huge since the introduction of the Suns. An AFLQ employee told me earlier this year that they’ve experienced 20% growth in SE Qld junior participation, every year for the past 5 years (the equivalent of 50-60 new junior teams). Those numbers cannot be dismissed and (IMO) justifies the investment because even if these kids don’t grow up to be elite players, hopefully they will be fans, members etc of AFL clubs and contribute to the growth of the game.

- With this huge growth it is difficult to obtain enough umpires, coaches etc for these additional junior teams. AFLQ are way better resourced than AFL Tas so they’re able to provide decent support in terms of umpire training, coach education etc. They also need to be doing this because the lack of football culture up here means there are less people willing to put their hand up to volunteer at local footy clubs.

- The Lions and Suns academies are doing great work in the elite talent space. I have no doubt that we will see some results from this in the coming years, but it might take another generation or two before the standard of competition in junior footy improves and we we see more draftees coming from Qld.

- Tassie is a completely different kettle of fish. I totally agree with you that they would produce more elite talent (right now) with composite investment, but that may not be the case in 20 years as SE Qld has 7x the population base of Tas.

- The neglect of Tasmanian footy from the AFL is shameful. 20 years ago, junior and local footy was so strong. Unfortunately, the administrators of the game have rested on their laurels and thought they could rely on the volunteers of local clubs doing all the heavy lifting for the sport in the state. Kids are playing less sport than they used to so the talent pool has shrunk. Also, junior basketball and soccer are attracting much bigger numbers in Tassie than they used to and I have no doubt that this is due to the greater emphasis they place on junior participation and development.

- Someone correct me if I’m wrong (I was too young to remember), but it seems to me that Tassie footy was in far better shape when it was administered by Football Tasmania (up until 2002). After this point in time it became AFL Tasmania and the sport has been in steady decline since then. Was this just an organisational name change or did it coincide with a change of leadership structure and greater control from the AFL?

- Having blow in AFL Tas CEO’s over the past decade has done nothing positive for the game in Tassie. Zero idea or care for the local context or challenges; moved on to new AFL roles at the first opportunity, and clearly didn’t challenge head office on the funding inequities that Tassie has suffered when compared with the Northern states. Personally, I think Tassie would be way better served by a local governing body like the SANFL or WAFC because when it comes to the AFL’s involvement in Tassie, everything they’ve touched turns to you know what.

Just a question though, by what means do you think the suns have contributed. Would this lift in participation have happened anyway if they just gave extra funding to grassroots in qld?