Training Apples' & Jen's Training Thread 2021 (Latest report #3590)

[Scodog10]

That's been the fashion, but have a look at the tigers team. About 6 blokes below 180. 6 blokes 180-185. 2 rucks. 4 talls. 4 186-192.

They've had hit after hit after hit late in the draft because they've picked blokes who other clubs considered too small.

What you’re missing here in the context of what I’m posting is that all of them would be better if they were taller. Hence height is a significant advantage. From there only Baker, Lambert and Short were “overlooked” the others were all 1st or second round picks.

 

[sr36]

Obviously not ones that are size dependent (martial arts with weight divisions, motor racing and jockeys the obvious exclusions) but yes in every sport it’s an advantage to be taller. I’m all ears for your comeback on this one because I’ve never played a sport where I’ve thought to myself “damn I’ve got a real advantage here being a short arse”!

Obviously not an advantage to be short. But it's where the draft bargains were for a fair while, because most clubs thought it was a much bigger disadvantage than it is. The bargains will dry up, becasue Tigers have been so successful from picking short guys.

 

[sr36]

They aren’t hits because they’re small though. They’re hits because they have those elite traits and all of them would be better if they were taller.

They were at that point of the draft becasue they were small and their success shows that it wasn't as big a disadvantage as thought. i"m not saying that it's great that Dibb or anyone else is short, just that it isn't a really big disadvantage and as it can favour agility and off the mark speed for some roles that's much more important than height.

 

[Matrix10]

I personally think the Tigers era of dominance is down to their recruiters not being worried about height and giving them a mosquito fleet - from late picks - that have created enormous pressure as well as creative attack.

Yes, and they target those with at least one elite trait to their game, be it kicking, running both ways all day,play in multiple positions, ie. mid, forward or back. preferably 2 of these elite qualities.

 

[sr36]

What you’re missing here in the context of what I’m posting is that all of them would be better if they were taller. Hence height is a significant advantage. From there only Baker, Lambert and Short were “overlooked” the others were all 1st or second round picks.

They'd all be better if they were taller and had the same football pace and agility. You get the occasional Chris Judd and they win brownlows, because pace and agility and height are all assets, but usually it's a trade off.

They all got to Richmond more cheaply because of their height and have become really valuable players.

 

[Kirby]

Obviously not ones that are size dependent (martial arts with weight divisions, motor racing and jockeys the obvious exclusions) but yes in every sport it’s an advantage to be taller. I’m all ears for your comeback on this one because I’ve never played a sport where I’ve thought to myself “damn I’ve got a real advantage here being a short arse”!

Why can I just sense in my bones that a mention of pennant squash is coming?

 

[Go Woods]

Was trying to decide where to put this. Guess I'll put all match reports (Nab league etc) here.



Nab League - Sandringham v Oakleigh. 2-15pm. April 5th, 2021.

This was my first time to a NAB League game, so I didn't know what to expect. There was a decent crowd, by the looks of it, its bigger than most weeks going by what people were saying. Likely because of Nick Daicos. Fair few pies fans down there today

Pies players such as IQ, Bianco, Mayne with his daughter were there. Saw Josh and his dad, Peter watching Nick in his first game.

Bumped into local sports writer for the HS, Paul Amy in the 2nd half, so we started chatting for the rest of the game.

I admit, the Sandringham team is pretty damn good. Especially Campbell Chesser and Josh Sinn whose efforts im the last quarter got them over the line. Their run and carry from the centre was pretty impressive. I dare so a fair few will be drafted from that team, and from the Oakleigh one as well.

As for the chargers. We had Nick, Dib and another academy player, Luke Kelvie playing.

• Nick - BOG for mine. Especially that first half. He was everywhere. Middle. Back. Forward. Kicked 3 goals, but given he missed a couple, it probably could have been a 5 gola reign. Even when he acquired a corkie on his thigh, he got back out there without hesitation and got on with the job at hand. They put him down deep forward in the 2nd half, with still stints in the middle, probably to minimise making it worse. Probably about 25+ touches. Nobody had any answers for him in the first half especially. Just a class above for this level.

Dib - Looked comfortable at half back. Kicked a goal after a 50 metre penalty pretty early on. In the 2nd half, think he also spent a little time in the middle, His tackle pressure was enormous. His body allows for it. Def looks like a player.​

And the one nobody knows anything about. Not even Google.

• Luke Kelvie - I didn't even know what he looked like. But pretty decent height, blonde hair, had part of it tied up. I don't know how he qualifies for the NGA, as he was white as haha. But also kicked a goal, and got his hands on the ball a bit. Played in defence. But looks like someone that could also play forward.

Chargers may have lost, but a lot to look forward to.

Bring on Saturday for game 2.








'

Gee looks as though it will be a very nice hall if we pick up all three.

 

[No SPIN]

Average height is 178 for males in AFL age range. It was a recruiting fashion trend. Recruiters decided guys below 180cm were undesirable about a decade age - thus not many were in the system. Because guys like Sydney's Josh Kennedy and the Freo mob were going to become the norm. Meanwhile, Lachie Neale is the reigning brownlow medallist and the reigning premiership team had these guys in it:

Liam Baker - 176
Shai Bolton - 175
Dion Prestia - 175
Jaidyn Short - 177
Daniel Rioli - 179
Kane Lambert- 178

Plus Edwards, Graham, Houli and Castagna 180-183

Recruiters have changed their mind and now guys who were thought to lack height a few years ago are getting recruited and performing again. Coupled with that, a lot of roles appear to be trending away from size and power and towards agility and speed.I wouldn't be at all worried about a prospect being a powerfully built 174cm. In fact if anything, it's the midsized utilities who were all the rage in the Hawthorn era, who should be getting worried - the mosquitoes are back in town big time.

I think Swans will have the new formula - taller fast mids, per their clear demolition of Rich.
So many sub 180 cm players was going to be a potential Achilles heal for Rich, but I didn’t expect it to occur so quickly.
I’m glad we’ve taken the Swans route by recruiting taller mids.

 

[Kirby]

I think Swans will have the new formula - taller fast mids, per their clear demolition of Rich.
So many sub 180 cm players was going to be a potential Achilles heal for Rich, but I didn’t expect it to occur so quickly.
I’m glad we’ve taken the Swans route by recruiting taller mids.

It's one game and they've won the flag 3 out of the last 4 years.

 

[No SPIN]

It's one game and they've won the flag 3 out of the last 4 years.

Sure, but the new rules didn’t apply in those years.
Now more one on ones means smaller bodies will be exposed.
We’ll just have to see what happens.

 

[Apex36]

I think Swans will have the new formula - taller fast mids, per their clear demolition of Rich.
So many sub 180 cm players was going to be a potential Achilles heal for Rich, but I didn’t expect it to occur so quickly.
I’m glad we’ve taken the Swans route by recruiting taller mids.

The Swans win over Richmond had little to do with player size and almost everything to do with superior structures to go with the new rules.

 

[sr36]

Sure, but the new rules didn’t apply in those years.
Now more one on ones means smaller bodies will be exposed.
We’ll just have to see what happens.

Is it more one on ones or more uncontested hit ups and running past for handballs. I think you're right though. There might be a sustained shift away from packs and thus ground level mopping up skills. Which could shift things away from the Tiges height profile and bring the inbetweeners back into vogue.

 

[Scodog10]

Why can I just sense in my bones that a mention of pennant squash is coming?

Ahoy hoy! Is that my in?

On a separate note to my search for a sport where being vertically challenged works in my favour I want to separate myself from talk of Richmond being recruiting savants because they selected short arses. What they targeted was traits. All I’m arguing is that if they had players available at their picks who were 10cm taller and shared the same traits as Baker, Short and Lambert those three would have been overlooked because being short is a disadvantage.

Here’s to hoping Dib nudges 180cm by the time the draft roles around and that he improves upon his Rd 1 performance.

 

[Kirby]

Ahoy hoy! Is that my in?

The poster you were quoting likes to mention his squash prowess and his cycling heroics despite being a shorty

That’s when he’s not shaking his fist at clouds

 

[Matrix10]

Is it more one on ones or more uncontested hit ups and running past for handballs. I think you're right though. There might be a sustained shift away from packs and thus ground level mopping up skills. Which could shift things away from the Tiges height profile and bring the inbetweeners back into vogue.

Hang on SR, you were just saying a few moments ago how the smalls of the Tigers was so effective, I`m confused

 

[Stripes B and W]

Obviously not ones that are size dependent (martial arts with weight divisions, motor racing and jockeys the obvious exclusions) but yes in every sport it’s an advantage to be taller. I’m all ears for your comeback on this one because I’ve never played a sport where I’ve thought to myself “damn I’ve got a real advantage here being a short arse”!

Sco re others sports and admittedly this is a bit indirect but there have been many elite of the elite footballers of the world game quite short. I say indirect because they have this incredible balance from LCG and lateral movement which is a huge plus in their sport. That's not to say being short guarantees you to be a world renowned striker of course!
Apart from keepers not too many, say, 195 cm plus as a rule either.

Its far from a sport but being a little challenged in the vertical dimension is ever so beneficial on an airplane!

 

[jonmacTrag]

Ahoy hoy! Is that my in?

On a separate note to my search for a sport where being vertically challenged works in my favour I want to separate myself from talk of Richmond being recruiting savants because they selected short arses. What they targeted was traits. All I’m arguing is that if they had players available at their picks who were 10cm taller and shared the same traits as Baker, Short and Lambert those three would have been overlooked because being short is a disadvantage.

Here’s to hoping Dib nudges 180cm by the time the draft roles around and that he improves upon his Rd 1 performance.

FMD Sco you really are heavily into height aren't you?

I won't continue because it seems to be a religion for you and I make it a point to avoid fanatics

 

[sr36]

Hang on SR, you were just saying a few moments ago how the smalls of the Tigers was so effective, I`m confused

They have been extremely effective., as have zoning webs and intercept marking kpds, but God knows how things will settle once everyone gets used to attacking and defending with the new rules.

My guess is that there will eventually be less trying to lock the ball into territory, easier transition, teams not pushing their defenders as high and pulling back quickly into defensive 50 and we'll go back to congested zones with attacking kpds and smalls retaining their value. But there are heaps of other ways that coaches may take it.

At the moment marking forwards have gained value since last year and smalls have probably lost a bit.

 

[Matrix10]

They have been extremely effective., as have zoning webs and intercept marking kpds, but God knows how things will settle once everyone gets used to attacking and defending with the new rules.

My guess is that there will eventually be less trying to lock the ball into territory, easier transition, teams not pushing their defenders as high and pulling back quickly into defensive 50 and we'll go back to congested zones with attacking kpds and smalls retaining their value. But there are heaps of other ways that coaches may take it.

At the moment marking forwards have gained value since last year and smalls have probably lost a bit.

My head is spinning now, Mamma Mia, here we go again , why why

 

[sr36]

My head is spinning now, Mamma Mia, here we go again , why why

I think it is exciting. Games opened up and noone knows who the good teams are yet. Coaches are going to earn their money this year. And recruiters who get the direction of the game right will set their clubs up in upcoming drafts. Bucks could be right with his dream of a forward line with 6 mobile generalists who seperate defenders.

 

[Matrix10]

I think it is exciting. Games opened up and noone knows who the good teams are yet. Coaches are going to earn their money this year.

Absolutely exciting , if the coaches have the colgnones to bring in the young first year players who are ready to rip , hello McCrae and McCreery

 

[legendstatus]

I think Apex likened Dib to Prestia which is close except Dib much quicker and in close decisions. Height won’t be an issue given his ability, very impressed with my first look at him.

Kelvie I didn’t know much about but do remember saying that Blonde guy in defence is pretty good, so if I have this right we might have a third player to look forward to in the draft!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sr36]

Ahoy hoy! Is that my in?

On a separate note to my search for a sport where being vertically challenged works in my favour I want to separate myself from talk of Richmond being recruiting savants because they selected short arses. What they targeted was traits. All I’m arguing is that if they had players available at their picks who were 10cm taller and shared the same traits as Baker, Short and Lambert those three would have been overlooked because being short is a disadvantage.

Here’s to hoping Dib nudges 180cm by the time the draft roles around and that he improves upon his Rd 1 performance.

But they got those traits - pace and skill really cheaply because they didn't turn their nose up at height, whilst other clubs were turning their noses up. It put them ahead of the pack because their criteria didn't devalue short players as much as other clubs criteria. It's obviously a disadvantage to be short, but the Tigers valued the disadvantage more accurately than other clubs.

An 185cm Shai Bolton goes top 5. 175cm one should go 10-15. They got him at 29.

Many other clubs wouldn't have touched Baker and Short, as they were short arses without x factor - despite good pace and excellent skills.

 

[Apex36]

I think Apex likened Dib to Prestia which is close except Dib much quicker and in close decisions. Height won’t be an issue given his ability, very impressed with my first look at him.

Kelvie I didn’t know much about but do remember saying that Blonde guy in defence is pretty good, so if I have this right we might have a third player to look forward to in the draft!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I likened his build, yes. No idea how he plays though as I haven’t seen him and have to rely on reports from others. All I really know is he’s short, strong and fast.

 

[Apex36]

But they got those traits - pace and skill really cheaply because they didn't turn their nose up at height, whilst other clubs were turning their noses up. It put them ahead of the pack because their criteria didn't devalue short players as much as other clubs criteria. It's obviously a disadvantage to be short, but the Tigers valued the disadvantage more accurately than other clubs.

An 185cm Shai Bolton goes top 5. 175cm one should go 10-15. They got him at 29.

Many other clubs wouldn't have touched Baker and Short, as they were short arses without x factor - despite good pace and excellent skills.

They got Prestia for pick 6 and Rioli in the first round too, not exactly cheap. Bolton was at 11 on our draft board fwiw.