Training Apples' & Jen's Training Thread 2021 (Latest report #2785)

Remove this Banner Ad

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
22,465
30,680
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
They got Prestia for pick 6 and Rioli in the first round too, not exactly cheap. Bolton was at 11 on our draft board fwiw.
Prestia, like Lachie Neale, was a young high achieving mid. If they weren't short arses both would have gone for Dylan Shiel price - which they should have.
 

Apex36

Hall of Famer
Mar 26, 2014
31,662
59,426
AFL Club
Collingwood
Prestia, like Lachie Neale, was a young high achieving mid. If they weren't short arses both would have gone for Dylan Shiel price - which they should have.
No, Prestia came with indifferent form and a crook knee, that’s why he wasn’t Shiel price. It had nothing to do with his height.
Neale was traded with pick 30 for 6, 19 and 55. That’s pretty close to Shiel price tbh, and Neale wasn’t as highly regarded then as he is now, mostly because he was playing in a poor team.
 

grayza2018

Club Legend
Oct 31, 2017
1,557
1,428
The Cottage
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Fulham
Sorry I'm out of the loop a bit on Dib, we aren't expecting him to be top 20 in this year's draft, unless he tears it apart? By the sounds of it, his height could ensure he isn't pushing into round 1 draft territory?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
22,465
30,680
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
No, Prestia came with indifferent form and a crook knee, that’s why he wasn’t Shiel price. It had nothing to do with his height.
Neale was traded with pick 30 for 6, 19 and 55. That’s pretty close to Shiel price tbh, and Neale wasn’t as highly regarded then as he is now, mostly because he was playing in a poor team.
Have a look through there drafting of the last 6 years. Lots of late hits with short blokes. It seems pretty clear to me that they struck gold by not writing off blokes due to height, or in other words their criteria didn't de-value blokes based on height as much as other clubs did.

I don't believe that there are recruiters with a magic eye that are way better than other recruiters, but I do think that some clubs have a lot more success with their recruiting due to their criteria. These days all clubs will be recruiting based on criteria and some clubs have criteria that are better than other teams, and i think the criteria needs to change to suit the future changes in the game. To me it seems extremely likely that the tigers got a leg up on the competition when they targetted pace and skills without devaluing players due to a lack height as significantly as most other clubs did. In contrast, Dekka has spoken a lot about blokes being a good size.

I don't think it's a big deal - I just think that the tigers had better recruiting criteria than us - probably by reading the winning game style better. Clubs will follow the tigers and by the time they do, the game style will have changed again and perhaps height will matter again - I wouldn't be surprised if Bucks's seeming ideal of 6 mobile medium forwards who can take a mark and seperate and spread the defence becomes the way to go in the not too distant future.
 

jonmacTrag

Club Legend
May 27, 2020
1,682
1,794
AFL Club
Collingwood
So you end up with a list full of "best available" mid sized players and gaping holes in key positions? Sounds familiar
Too literal PN best available players regardless of size for that position - in other words a cm or so is not critical in KPP's - the days of the big bruisers are finished for the present with the new rules favouring more agile players - KPP's still need some height but a cm or so deficiency can be overcome with elite or near elite skills elsewhere.
 

Scodog10

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 25, 2008
19,373
29,014
The Linc
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Oakland Raiders
Sco re others sports and admittedly this is a bit indirect but there have been many elite of the elite footballers of the world game quite short. I say indirect because they have this incredible balance from LCG and lateral movement which is a huge plus in their sport. That's not to say being short guarantees you to be a world renowned striker of course!
Apart from keepers not too many, say, 195 cm plus as a rule either.

Its far from a sport but being a little challenged in the vertical dimension is ever so beneficial on an airplane!
My mind first went to Messi when I posted that. What I then come back to with soccer is that you will struggle as a defender if you’re short which suggests to me that it’s also a disadvantage there too. Albeit less so than other sports kind of like the opposite of Basketball. Where I think it works better is that the ball is on the ground more in soccer.

Another avenue to take with the discussion is to ask whether smaller players work better in Richmond’s system because they just move it on at all costs meaning it’s on the ground more often? Rather than those smalls just being nuggets of gold late in the draft...
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
22,465
30,680
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Another avenue to take with the discussion is to ask whether smaller players work better in Richmond’s system because they just move it on at all costs meaning it’s on the ground more often? Rather than those smalls just being nuggets of gold late in the draft...
That's a good point - clubs need to draft for how they want to play in a few years time. It worked for them because they got the playing style right. Those blokes would probably have been less effective in a team like Geelong who want to control things more.

On short guys in other sports - cricket - a lot of the great batsmen of history have been short. Obviously short pace bowlers have absolutely no hope.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

mwhop

Team Captain
Aug 13, 2014
370
514
AFL Club
Collingwood
Have a look through there drafting of the last 6 years. Lots of late hits with short blokes. It seems pretty clear to me that they struck gold by not writing off blokes due to height, or in other words their criteria didn't de-value blokes based on height as much as other clubs did.

I don't believe that there are recruiters with a magic eye that are way better than other recruiters, but I do think that some clubs have a lot more success with their recruiting due to their criteria. These days all clubs will be recruiting based on criteria and some clubs have criteria that are better than other teams, and i think the criteria needs to change to suit the future changes in the game. To me it seems extremely likely that the tigers got a leg up on the competition when they targetted pace and skills without devaluing players due to a lack height as significantly as most other clubs did. In contrast, Dekka has spoken a lot about blokes being a good size.

I don't think it's a big deal - I just think that the tigers had better recruiting criteria than us - probably by reading the winning game style better. Clubs will follow the tigers and by the time they do, the game style will have changed again and perhaps height will matter again - I wouldn't be surprised if Bucks's seeming ideal of 6 mobile medium forwards who can take a mark and seperate and spread the defence becomes the way to go in the not too distant future.
Its more that they recruit to suit their specific gameplan
Which allows for scrappy smalls on the ground

This is in contrast to us. Our recruiting and gameplan are not on the same page.
 

mwhop

Team Captain
Aug 13, 2014
370
514
AFL Club
Collingwood
That's a good point - clubs need to draft for how they want to play in a few years time. It worked for them because they got the playing style right. Those blokes would probably have been less effective in a team like Geelong who want to control things more.

On short guys in other sports - cricket - a lot of the great batsmen of history have been short. Obviously short pace bowlers have absolutely no hope.
I find myself agreeing with your posts time and time again sr36
 

Pistol Night

Premiership Player
Sep 3, 2019
3,121
8,757
AFL Club
Collingwood
That's a good point - clubs need to draft for how they want to play in a few years time. It worked for them because they got the playing style right. Those blokes would probably have been less effective in a team like Geelong who want to control things more.

On short guys in other sports - cricket - a lot of the great batsmen of history have been short. Obviously short pace bowlers have absolutely no hope.
Dale Steyn was only 179cm
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
22,465
30,680
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Its more that they recruit to suit their specific gameplan
Which allows for scrappy smalls on the ground

This is in contrast to us. Our recruiting and gameplan are not on the same page.
I don't think they can be on the same page, as I think with game plan we are pretty reactionary and change it a lot from year to year. Unlike the Tigers who have had a set and forget plan - with minor tweaks but the same fundamentals. Over the last 3 years, we've jumped from moving it with running and handball to chip kicks to safe and cautious and now to wheel and go.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
22,465
30,680
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Not many 1 on 1 physical contests in cricket though i guess where height is an advantage. :tearsofjoy:
I think I've now managed to establish that if covid restrictions result in the grand final being decided by a game of cricket, the tigers would be bloody hard to get out due to their plethora of short arses, but they'd need it to be a spinning deck or a green top to bowl the opposition out, as their bowlers would struggle to extract any bounce.
 

Remove this Banner Ad