Apples' Training Reports

[Scodog10]

I read this as he has maintained his fitness level (good or bad) between runs. 9 seconds is not a dramatic drop. If it was 30 seconds i may be concerned. But these are not professional runners and i would expect some fluctuation in times for players even if they have maintained the same fitness level.

Are you a gym goer? I’m not in any way professional about it, but I’m there a bit and Kirby is in what I would consider the honeymoon improvement phase. Even the most average of trainers will see rapid improvement early and then plateau. Pardon my lack of technical explanation, but it’s just how the human body reacts.

In relation to Kayle Kirby our Kirby was correct this is the time he should be improving incrementally every time he runs a TT. Not sure 10 seconds is an appropriate goal, but regression is unacceptable and certainly doesn’t warrant excuses.

If this is maintenance for him cut him now because he’ll never be fit enough to make it, but if this isn’t maintenance, which it isn’t, IMO, the club need to do something/ anything to start to see him improve. It’s not going to get easier to improve from here only harder...

I’m not expecting him to match Pendles either (far from it actually), but I am expecting improvement! We all should given we’re the club is at.

The irony of it for me is that the type of club that could afford to work on a guy like this is Adelaide. They’re a really professional organisation with a strong HP group, but the thing is Adelaide wouldn’t accept it. We all remember Shannon Cox, yes? I would bet my life savings that his fitness was clearly ahead of Kirby’s when he was cut. The best clubs don’t accept this type of stuff no matter how much talent you have. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. It’s time for tough love unfortunately.

 

[Finnishpie]

Are you a gym goer? I’m not in any way professional about it, but I’m there a bit and Kirby is in what I would consider the honeymoon improvement phase. Even the most average of trainers will see rapid improvement early and then plateau. Pardon my lack of technical explanation, but it’s just how the human body reacts.

In relation to Kayle Kirby our Kirby was correct this is the time he should be improving incrementally every time he runs a TT. Not sure 10 seconds is an appropriate goal, but regression is unacceptable and certainly doesn’t warrant excuses.

If this is maintenance for him cut him now because he’ll never be fit enough to make it, but if this isn’t maintenance, which it isn’t, IMO, the club need to do something/ anything to start to see him improve. It’s not going to get easier to improve from here only harder...

I’m not expecting him to match Pendles either (far from it actually), but I am expecting improvement! We all should given we’re the club is at.

The irony of it for me is that the type of club that could afford to work on a guy like this is Adelaide. They’re a really professional organisation with a strong HP group, but the thing is Adelaide wouldn’t accept it. We all remember Shannon Cox, yes? I would bet my life savings that his fitness was clearly ahead of Kirby’s when he was cut. The best clubs don’t accept this type of stuff no matter how much talent you have. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. It’s time for tough love unfortunately.

Yeah, all we can expect is his to be competing with himself - to improve over time. But still, compared to last year he has improved, and so that’s a plus. Hopefully by this time next year, he’ll really step it up. He’ll never be Philips, but he’s a more explosive athlete. I’m not too worried. I will be in there isn’t strides by next preseason.

 

[ClaytonM]

Are you a gym goer? The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. It’s time for tough love unfortunately.

Don’t think anyone is accepting the fitness level is right now. But he is a long way in front of where he was last year (not hard) and the club has not shown any indication that it has or will except his current fitness levels in the longer term. But making a call on two runs a couple of weeks apart which basically produce the same time is not the basis for making a decision on his future.

 

[Scodog10]

Don’t think anyone is accepting the fitness level is right now. But he is a long way in front of where he was last year (not hard) and the club has not shown any indication that it has or will except his current fitness levels in the longer term. But making a call on two runs a couple of weeks apart which basically produce basically the same time is not the basis for making a decision on his future.

See this is what I don’t get. It’s professional sport the standard he was at when he walked through the door was acceptable by park standards so improving on that was a monty. IMO, it would actually have been a greater challenge for him to regress from that level given the program he was on.

I also never said they’ve accepted his current shape? I only said that previously a guy was cut whilst in arguably better condition. For all I know there’s been discussions behind closed doors that he won’t be pulling on the jumper until he hits x, y and z benchmarks. My issue is that you’ve accepted it and challenged my POV by referring to his regression this pre-season as maintenance!

Like everyone on here I am hoping he can get over this hump and demonstrate why he’s worth persisting with, but the way I would now consider it is that if he were cut tomorrow and the club justified it by saying “Kayle wasn’t able to adapt to the the rigours of AFL footy” would anyone be all that surprised or question the club?..

 

[frizzle]

I think the time trail comparisons between December & now are a good indication on which players have a professional mindset & which players are simply getting by. I'm sure the club was hoping to see improvements in January's TT times. Seeing Kirby lose 10 seconds from December would have given the club a fair idea of how hard he worked over the Christmas break. When you are already timed at over 8 minutes it shouldn't be too hard to improve on that.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

I'd also be wary of reading too much into the results as an indicator of overall strength/endurance.

For instance - if KK has put on a few kg of muscle then naturally his time is going to drop and his legs will need time to adapt to endurance speed. Same with some of the other younger players.

More experienced/bigger-body players are likely to already be at optimum muscle mass and are just maintaining weight whilst increasing aerobic ability. So it's likely that they would be shaving off seconds while their bodies are adapting to the increased workload.

That's why a longer (2-3 month) sample time will be a better indicator of progress.

 

[Apex36]

I thought it was the Pioneers myself. Perhaps it was a metaphor or something?

Wow, brain fart. You’re right, he did play for the pioneers. Still, point stands. He wasn’t from outside the system. He did start late though iirc. Only played for about 4 years before being drafted.

 

[cleomenes]

2 Km running times are only one small part of fitness measurement. Plenty of posters have mentioned how different the requirements are in Kirby's role to those in say Phillips' job. There is no point in being critical of his fitness or his conditioning management when we know so little. Later in the year, when we have seen a few games, some comments may be in order, but right now, on the outside looking in, we are like Jon Snow. We know nothing.

 

[jackcass]

Are you a gym goer? I’m not in any way professional about it, but I’m there a bit and Kirby is in what I would consider the honeymoon improvement phase. Even the most average of trainers will see rapid improvement early and then plateau. Pardon my lack of technical explanation, but it’s just how the human body reacts.

In relation to Kayle Kirby our Kirby was correct this is the time he should be improving incrementally every time he runs a TT. Not sure 10 seconds is an appropriate goal, but regression is unacceptable and certainly doesn’t warrant excuses.

If this is maintenance for him cut him now because he’ll never be fit enough to make it, but if this isn’t maintenance, which it isn’t, IMO, the club need to do something/ anything to start to see him improve. It’s not going to get easier to improve from here only harder...

I’m not expecting him to match Pendles either (far from it actually), but I am expecting improvement! We all should given we’re the club is at.

The irony of it for me is that the type of club that could afford to work on a guy like this is Adelaide. They’re a really professional organisation with a strong HP group, but the thing is Adelaide wouldn’t accept it. We all remember Shannon Cox, yes? I would bet my life savings that his fitness was clearly ahead of Kirby’s when he was cut. The best clubs don’t accept this type of stuff no matter how much talent you have. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. It’s time for tough love unfortunately.

A tad over dramatic don't you think. He's contracted for 2018 so never going to be cut this late in the preseason, by any club. Not for dropping 10 seconds in comparative time trials 4-5 weeks apart. It's about 2 seconds a lap. Happy for you to point me to any player in their 2nd year of a 2 year contract who's been cut because he came back from the Christmas break slightly behind where he was prior to the break. If he'd come back looking like a beach ball and couldn't participate in the TT at all I could understand but it's far from that scenario.

 

[sr36]

Scodog, , his time dropped by 1 or 2 percent. Fluctuations like that are going to occur on a daily basis without it indicating a drop in the players general condition. Not to mention likely inaccuracies in the measurements of a supporter trying to get the times of 30guys in a race. These times are a rough indicator of where a players endurance is at and Kirby is in roughly the same position as where he left before the Christmas break. That suggests that he did do a bit of work over the break. All good in my opinion.

 

[Kirby]

The times showed that just about everyone else improved or did the same time. Kirby went 9 seconds slower. We can rely upon that as being a pretty accurate measure. He's the only bloke that's gone backwards and he had the easiest time to improve on.

Unless he was ill I'm suggesting he's not fairdinkum about his professionalism. Yes, I accept it's a small sample though.

 

[ClaytonM]

See this is what I don’t get. It’s professional sport the standard he was at when he walked through the door was acceptable by park standards so improving on that was a monty. IMO, it would actually have been a greater challenge for him to regress from that level given the program he was on.

I also never said they’ve accepted his current shape? I only said that previously a guy was cut whilst in arguably better condition. For all I know there’s been discussions behind closed doors that he won’t be pulling on the jumper until he hits x, y and z benchmarks. My issue is that you’ve accepted it and challenged my POV by referring to his regression this pre-season as maintenance!

Like everyone on here I am hoping he can get over this hump and demonstrate why he’s worth persisting with, but the way I would now consider it is that if he were cut tomorrow and the club justified it by saying “Kayle wasn’t able to adapt to the the rigours of AFL footy” would anyone be all that surprised or question the club?..

My simple point is that I do not think we should think he has regressed because his time slipped 9 seconds over Xmas.

You run a 2k on a number of consecutive days and I would suggest your times will fluctuate by 9 seconds or more. Professional distance runners times fluctuate from run to run. I suspect for other athletes it would fluctuate more because they wouild not be as adept at pacing themselves to get best possible time.

If his times don't improve over the longer term that is something to worry about, but not a few seconds over a Xmas break.

 

[Gambit78]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Kirby would have run a better time if the 2km run was held on Friday. It was interesting to hear the players talking about not starting the pre-season with a TT straight away, that it was a couple of sessions in, which allowed them to get into the groove of training first.

I feel Kirby is a momentum trainer, and by that I mean he needs routine and structure to build into his block of training. Just an impression, mind you, but if Collingwood delayed their TT, and Kirby got into a rhythm of training before hand, his time might've been different.

And lastly - The Grind has revealed that we have a real focus on power and explosiveness in our training. Not to say we're not looking at aerobic capacity, but maybe Kirby's individualised program has him building his power, repeat sprints and explosiveness because clearly that's where his strengths lie...maybe. I mean, the club stated that we're going to play to our strengths more, right?

 

[sr36]

My simple point is that I do not think we should think he has regressed because his time slipped 9 seconds over Xmas.

You run a 2k on a number of consecutive days and I would suggest your times will fluctuate by 9 seconds or more. Professional distance runners times fluctuate from run to run. I suspect for other athletes it would fluctuate more because they wouild not be as adept at pacing themselves to get best possible time.

If his times don't improve over the longer term that is something to worry about, but not a few seconds over a Xmas break.

Absolutely. For all we know, he may be in better condition but as a result tried to keep up with the group for too long and thus blown himself out earlier than last time. Creating conclusive dramas about this data is nonsensical.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Wow, brain fart. You’re right, he did play for the pioneers. Still, point stands. He wasn’t from outside the system. He did start late though iirc. Only played for about 4 years before being drafted.

Yeah that's the main thing. He was very late to the system with as far as I can tell his only access to the 'talent pathways' being in his draft year when he started playing TAC Cup. Compared to the elite juniors who get put into the talent pathways at 14/15 he seems like he's outside the system.

 

[Good_Old]

Not everyone is an early responder to exercise, most people are but there is a small amount of the population that isn't.

Fibre type plays an incredibly large part in what type of athlete you are which is set in stone by the second trimester. You can make fibre type act similarly to those you would like but you cannot change the fibre type and therefore training specificty only works to a point.

 

[frizzle]

Absolutely. For all we know, he may be in better condition but as a result tried to keep up with the group for too long and thus blown himself out earlier than last time. Creating conclusive dramas about this data is nonsensical.

Fair & reasonable response. That is a possibility.

 

[Apples]

Thanks for the report. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your marvellous pre-season work. BTW, what was your time in the time trial?

I was thrashed from the starting gate at Jolimont Station by a grey haired chap who was in the same carriage as me. He made it a good 90 seconds before me. Disappointing as I've worked hard the last 4 weeks.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Are the Murray Burshrangers outside the system now?

Bendigo wasn't it

 

[jackcass]

The times showed that just about everyone else improved or did the same time. Kirby went 9 seconds slower. We can rely upon that as being a pretty accurate measure. He's the only bloke that's gone backwards and he had the easiest time to improve on.

Unless he was ill I'm suggesting he's not fairdinkum about his professionalism. Yes, I accept it's a small sample though.

Caveat being that nearly 1/2 the squad (19 of 45 from memory of Neil's report) didn't even participate. Where do they place in the scheme of things? Is Kirby ahead of them?

 

[Kirby]

Caveat being that nearly 1/2 the squad (19 of 45 from memory of Neil's report) didn't even participate. Where do they place in the scheme of things? Is Kirby ahead of them?

I dunno but he's well behind all 19 he tested against!!

By a minute and going backwards too.

 

[Jasper84]

Caveat being that nearly 1/2 the squad (19 of 45 from memory of Neil's report) didn't even participate. Where do they place in the scheme of things? Is Kirby ahead of them?

With a time like that I'd say Elliott would have beaten him on crutches.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Imagine young Kirby is reading this....

He'd feel the love.
He'd feel the encouragement.
He'd feel the support.

But don't worry if (when) he's comes good, the band wagon will be very crowded with the back slappers.

 

[sloth6]

F*rk me - if he's kicking goals, laying tackles, getting multiple shots on goal, being in the right spots the majority of the time - who cares how fast he does a 2 km time trial. His job is to kick goals and that should be his focus - kicking goals!

 

[jackcass]

I dunno but he's well behind all 19 he tested against!!

By a minute and going backwards too.

It's not about who would have beaten him, but their relative times against the TT of 4-5 weeks ago or historically.