Are Essendon the new Richmond?

PetterdHoisted

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#51
I think Watson retiring will make a huge difference to the changing room atmosphere, imagine the young blokes seeing this guy moping around, to-be-or-not-to-be-a-barista and all that, all year long.

With Jobe gone, they take another step further away from the short-cut/not my fault culture they've been mired in, can only be a good thing and see them move up the ladder in a serious sense, i.e. to actually make a contest in an Elim final.
 

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TheSierBear

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#52
History is history and they've made a lot of bad history for themselves the past 15 years - The James Hird years was unprecedented.
Not sure on Worsfold, I never watched the Toast closely back in the day and I do think Worsfold has overall done well and got the most the list he currently has, but as good as Sydney were Worsfold's match-ups were diabolical yesterday. Ambrose on Franklin? Hartley on Sinclair? And so on...

A lot of players with their pants pulled down and exposed. Heppell, Myers, Hartley, Z. Merrett, Tippa, all woeful.
There midfield lack grunt and there doesn't seem to be a solution in sight. Who is their raging bull? They take years to develop and they have none. Daniher aside they don't have many KPP's to replace Hooker and Hurley in the coming years. So their window should be open now but their clock is ticking.

They won't make finals next year IMO. And so the pressure will mount on what has been a club best described as a basket case over the journey. With all due respect to Richmond they didn't have a doping regime.
 
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#53
You have to question the talent, leadership, mental toughness and perhaps an even deeper look into their football program, recruiting and culture.

I don't know what Essendon stands for. Perhaps with the amount of positive spin that comes out of the club they are content with where they are at and winning finals isn't so much of a motivator as making everyone feel good about themselves (both players and members).

I think as long as they have a strong membership and matchday attendances the administration is satisfied.
As for their players, so many of them are continuously told how good they are and shown love by the supporters, perhaps that's enough for them.

I heard Woosha yesterday mention how the loss shouldn't wash over their wins in round 1 and on Anzac day.
If we got humiliated in a knockout final and Clarko brought up two early home and away wins (against bottom 10 teams) I would be livid. They clearly over-celebrate regular season victories and gloss over the defeats.
Lol
 

The Dice Man

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#54
I think in this day and age where equalisation is finally having it's effect, teams can go up or down in 1 off season very easily with smart trading and good development. Essendon did well to make the finals and probably had the hardest match-up in the first week. Tigers last year finished 13th, now into a prelim. Dogs last year won the comp, this year finish 10th.
 

Lsta062

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#55
2009 - Essendon sneaked into finals at 8th with 10 wins and a draw. Played Adelaide (14 wins) and got thrashed.
2011 - Essendon sneaked into finals at 8th with 11 wins and a draw. Played Carlton (14 wins and a draw) and got thrashed.
2014 - Essendon made finals at 7th with 12 wins and a draw. Played North Melbourne (14 wins) and lost.
2017 - Essendon sneaked into finals at 7th with 12 wins. Played Sydney (14 wins) and got thrashed.

Point is, I don't see losing a final at 7th or 8th as a choke against better teams. Only one that I think fits the "choke" label is the bolded one given that Essendon was up by a lot. Compare that to Richmond:

2013 - Richmond finished 5th with 15 wins. Played Carlton (11 wins) and lost.
2014 - Richmond sneaked into finals at 8th with 12 wins. Played Port Adelaide (14 wins) and got thrashed.
2015 - Richmond finished 5th with 15 wins. Played North Melbourne (13 wins) and lost.

In bolded are the losses that fit with the "choke" label.

Hence, Essendon's problem in the last decade is not choking in finals given that their post-season finish roughly correlates with their ladder position after the H&A season. It is that they do not penetrate enough into the 8 to be competitive and/or secure a home final, meaning that they haven't finished above 7th. So, their problem comes IN the H&A season, where they lose games to the bottom 6 and consequentially end up playing teams at the cusp of the top 4 in the EF (2009 Adelaide, 2011 Carlton and 2017 Sydney).
 

demondavey

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#56
I think this year it's fairly harsh to criticise them. They've bounced back really well from a disappointing last year, but in order to go the next level they need the following;

Another key midfielder to supplement Parish, Heppel and Merrett
Aaron Francis to come on
Probably another KD - Maybe Lever

I don't think they can be labelled the next Richmond. Richmond got that tag because they dropped 3 elimination finals consecutively between 13-15, no finals in 16, and top 4 this year. Essendon have shown nothing to suggest they're anywhere near a Richmond standard.
 

Cudi_420

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#57
Melbourne is firmly within reach of being Richmond of the 00s. Always underachieving, always choking, and then crumbling and crashing hard.

That said consideeing what Essendon has been through and who they've lost, this year was an achievement.
 
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#58
We've been a mediocre or worse club for a long while now. I think due to 2016 most will accept this as a pass mark, but next year the expectations will increase and another finals capitulation (if we even make it) won't be acceptable.

We need to make the finals consistently to get the experience and hunger up. One poor first week elemination every 2-3 years does no good.
 

Cudi_420

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#59
We've been a mediocre or worse club for a long while now. I think due to 2016 most will accept this as a pass mark, but next year the expectations will increase and another finals capitulation (if we even make it) won't be acceptable.

We need to make the finals consistently to get the experience and hunger up. One poor first week elemination every 2-3 years does no good.
Ironic thing is that the last finals match Essendon won was vs Melbourne in 2004, with James Hird beating the late Broadbridge to mark the ball and finish with it on the final siren. Eerie.
 

jwint43

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#60
They've sort of luckily avoided the spotlight for their poor finals record for a while so it's interesting to see the heat being applied a little. Frustratingly i'd imagine for Dons supporters they've had a fair of good seasons with some lower placed finals finishes but they really haven't had a great season or been considered a real contender really since 2001. Every time they've managed a good season and got themselves into the finals they follow it up with an inconsistent season and finish somewhere like 11th or 12th. I think some of those seasons where they have made finals have masked that they've been middle of the road now for quite some time, a position where a lot of clubs don't want to find themselves. Things look to be turning around with some excellent young talent brought in and will be interesting to see if they can push on and finally get themselves back into the 4 and really challenge in the next couple of years.
 

bombersfan4000

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#61
Last finals victory in 2004. Even Melbourne have won a final more recently. Longest drought of any team excl. Gold Coast who've only been going since 2011 anyway.

No finals victory coached by anyone other than Kevin Sheedy since 1968.

Three of the last four finals losses have been smashings. Jungle drums will be beating.
That is a amazing stat no finals win Since 1968 under any coach aside from sheedy. In fairness he was around in the coaching gig for a quarter of a decade...

Essendon were over achieved by just making the finals this year, with players like Watson and Stanton retiring and a good mix of youth coming through I'm sure there will be some chances coming up in the next few years to fix that I wanted record up
 

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Rimmer

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#64
We wont know for another 20 years, its been 37 since richmond last won one but only 17 since Essendon did it back in the glorious Sheedy years. I wonder, Sheedy won a premiership for Essendon every 7 years, they might have had one or two more if smarter minds been in control.
 

pazza

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#65
Craze has it about right.

Once I got over the anger and frustration from yesterday, I reflected today on it all and thought..you know what - this was just the very first step to the end game.

How we get there will be interesting.
 

evo

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#66
Essendon have been the new Richmond for ages. It's just that the media fluff them so much that only the astute had already noticed.

Harsh comparing Cotchin to the Sheepdog though. I swear I saw Heppel calling for the ball in the third row yesterday.
 

Ron The Bear

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#67
I don't see Essendon as the new anybody right now. They're in a unique situation and it's not all that great, in spite of the HS's frequent urgings. Their significant contingent of 28yo+ players can't carry the day, and their young talent (Daniher aside) isn't yet ready to step up and win games. Might be best suited to dropping back for a year.
 

QuietB

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#68
There's probably 17 other sides that would have lost to Sydney yesterday. I think most Essendon fans would be justifiably happy with the year they had.
Hawthorn wouldn't have. But they would have lost to Golf Coast :oops:

Essendon are building fine. Getting smashed is not ideal but Sydney are going well and Essendon are not as good as they think they are. But they are building.

Their current biggest problem is they are losing important players every year. Watson and Kelly this year. Goddard and Hooker coming up. These are hard to replace as Hawthorn and even Geelong are seeing.

But they are building. Just need big inside mids.
 

Komrade_Tiger

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#69
Last finals victory in 2004. Even Melbourne have won a final more recently. Longest drought of any team excl. Gold Coast who've only been going since 2011 anyway.

No finals victory coached by anyone other than Kevin Sheedy since 1968.

Three of the last four finals losses have been smashings. Jungle drums will be beating.
That is extremely damning, more so than richmonds poor record of years past.....
 

The Prosecutor

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#70
I don't see Essendon as the new anybody right now. They're in a unique situation and it's not all that great, in spite of the HS's frequent urgings. Their significant contingent of 28yo+ players can't carry the day, and their young talent (Daniher aside) isn't yet ready to step up and win games. Might be best suited to dropping back for a year.
This is a really uninformed post.

Apart from Goddard, who over the age of 28 are we reliant upon going forward?

As for young players winning games, Merrett? Fantasia? I would be backing Parish and McGrath to start fitting that bracket too.
 

NathanMX

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#71
2009 - Essendon sneaked into finals at 8th with 10 wins and a draw. Played Adelaide (14 wins) and got thrashed.
2011 - Essendon sneaked into finals at 8th with 11 wins and a draw. Played Carlton (14 wins and a draw) and got thrashed.
2014 - Essendon made finals at 7th with 12 wins and a draw. Played North Melbourne (14 wins) and lost.
2017 - Essendon sneaked into finals at 7th with 12 wins. Played Sydney (14 wins) and got thrashed.

Point is, I don't see losing a final at 7th or 8th as a choke against better teams. Only one that I think fits the "choke" label is the bolded one given that Essendon was up by a lot. Compare that to Richmond:
Would think that losing by 96 points in 2009 to the team that finished 5th is not exactly a good look either. Usually teams are 5th for a reason, re: Port Adelaide, and your mob twice.
 

JayJ20

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#72
You have to question the talent, leadership, mental toughness and perhaps an even deeper look into their football program, recruiting and culture.

I don't know what Essendon stands for. Perhaps with the amount of positive spin that comes out of the club they are content with where they are at and winning finals isn't so much of a motivator as making everyone feel good about themselves (both players and members).

I think as long as they have a strong membership and matchday attendances the administration is satisfied.
As for their players, so many of them are continuously told how good they are and shown love by the supporters, perhaps that's enough for them.

I heard Woosha yesterday mention how the loss shouldn't wash over their wins in round 1 and on Anzac day.
If we got humiliated in a knockout final and Clarko brought up two early home and away wins (against bottom 10 teams) I would be livid. They clearly over-celebrate regular season victories and gloss over the defeats.
I actually completely agree with that. Because our finals have been spread out, it feels like making a final is an achievement and that we should settle for it. Richmond were smashed by the media and everyone else for getting thrashed by Port back in 2014 when they scraped through. For us, I feel like we're made to feel like we should be content with having the pleasure of getting smashed by Sydney. I'm disappointed by the clubs response.

I didn't look at the 2nd quarter and think "wow Sydney are the best side I have ever seen".
Our senior players folded when it got too hard and there is no other way to go about it.
 

Ron The Bear

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#73
This is a really uninformed post.

Apart from Goddard, who over the age of 28 are we reliant upon going forward?
Kelly 34 next year retired
Watson 33 retired
Goddard 32/33
Stanton 31/32 retired
Baguley 30/31
Hocking 30
Leuenberger 29/30
Hooker 29
Howlett 29
Bird 29
Myers 28/29
Bellchambers 28/29

The point is that you can't rely on them. Most clubs vying for a high finish have a strong senior core. More pressure will fall on Heppell/Hurley/Merrett/Daniher and they will be doing well to hold their ground. Next bracket:

Brown 27
McKernan 27
Colyer 26
Dea 26
McNiece 26
Green 25
Jerrett 25

There is a lot of potential dead wood to be cleared out.

What pick does Essendon start at this year? #12? They're in mid-table limbo.
 
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#74
I actually completely agree with that. Because our finals have been spread out, it feels like making a final is an achievement and that we should settle for it. Richmond were smashed by the media and everyone else for getting thrashed by Port back in 2014 when they scraped through. For us, I feel like we're made to feel like we should be content with having the pleasure of getting smashed by Sydney. I'm disappointed by the clubs response.

I didn't look at the 2nd quarter and think "wow Sydney are the best side I have ever seen".
Our senior players folded when it got too hard and there is no other way to go about it.
Yeah I agree, the pressure Essendon applied in the first completely evaporated in that second quarter and the Swans players just waltzed through the Bomber defence
 

Jobe Watson

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#75
We've been the underdog in all of our finals. It'd be nice to win one, but we're hardly Richmond losing a final to 9th. We had a good season regardless.

Still confident we will win a flag within the next 2 years.
 
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