Are Essendon the new Richmond?

Ron The Bear

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Based on your age profiles, what is an example of what these hard decision/s could be?
Dunno, haven't looked at it in detail. Maybe

- trade for a quality inside mid, inform Myers he's there for insurance only
- trade one of Leuenberger/Bellchambers, draft a cheap rookie for backup, groom a promising youngster
- play blokes who run both ways, the mids need more help from the forwards

There's probably not that much they could've done until now, but the picture should be a lot clearer. Play youth ahead of journeymen, even if it means the odd belting in 2018.
 

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Blue1980

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You have to question the talent, leadership, mental toughness and perhaps an even deeper look into their football program, recruiting and culture.

I don't know what Essendon stands for. Perhaps with the amount of positive spin that comes out of the club they are content with where they are at and winning finals isn't so much of a motivator as making everyone feel good about themselves (both players and members).

I think as long as they have a strong membership and matchday attendances the administration is satisfied.
As for their players, so many of them are continuously told how good they are and shown love by the supporters, perhaps that's enough for them.

I heard Woosha yesterday mention how the loss shouldn't wash over their wins in round 1 and on Anzac day.
If we got humiliated in a knockout final and Clarko brought up two early home and away wins (against bottom 10 teams) I would be livid. They clearly over-celebrate regular season victories and gloss over the defeats.
If only there was some way for them to try and get an edge over everyone....
 

Ron The Bear

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I am not claiming we have been in a full rebuild mode THIS season. As I explained we had a number of senior players returning from suspension and were figuring out exactly where we are at this year. We now know that we are significantly behind the best clubs. What I mean is that we will replace the older players with young ones and continue to rebuild via the draft.
And my entire point has been that our most important/core players going forward are not old at all. I couldn't really care less about the average age of our list/best 22.

And you are right we probably won't improve in 2018 and it is not important that we do so. We need to be a lot more patient than that. Our young mids need more time to develop and we need to bring in a couple more clearance mids as well. It's unrealistic to think that Essendon should be winning finals at this stage.
I have a hard time believing that this year was about "finding out where we are". Reckon Essendon was shooting for the moon, perhaps in the knowledge that the quality wasn't there, but hoping they might get lucky. Dropping the Brisbane game was criminal, and they should've beaten Sydney. I think they fell short of what they expected. Not buying the "satisfactory season" vibe.
 

Ischenko

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Sector 7G

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I have a hard time believing that this year was about "finding out where we are". Reckon Essendon was shooting for the moon, perhaps in the knowledge that the quality wasn't there, but hoping they might get lucky. Dropping the Brisbane game was criminal, and they should've beaten Sydney. I think they fell short of what they expected. Not buying the "satisfactory season" vibe.
I think they felt an obligation to at least give the banned players a go. Chances are Watson, Stanton, Hocking and Howlett wouldn't have been on the list if they played in 2016. Myers and Colyer were lucky to get as many games as they did this year. Suspect next year Wosha will be a less forgiving on the banned players with selection.
 

hk89

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North's 98 point EF margin in 2012 is bigger than any losing margin Essendon has ever had in finals.

Hence "new North" instead of "new Richmond", you moron.
Except that is not what you said is it? You said Richmond don't get Annihilated in finals, that is more a North thing. You didn't say Essendon was the new North, and it would be unfair for you to say so. Your finals record in the last 10 years is way worse than North (who have made it to prelims). Basically you are not really the new anything of recent times because your record is so bad you have no peer in this area.
 

juss

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It's different because their losses have been spread over a longer period, so it's not as magnified. 3 EFs in consecutive seasons really highlighted it for Richmond.
The Bombers would want to win a final next year though, or Worsfold could come under some pressure.
 
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I have a hard time believing that this year was about "finding out where we are". Reckon Essendon was shooting for the moon, perhaps in the knowledge that the quality wasn't there, but hoping they might get lucky. Dropping the Brisbane game was criminal, and they should've beaten Sydney. I think they fell short of what they expected. Not buying the "satisfactory season" vibe.
There obviously was a huge element of finding out our place in the comp. There was big question marks on Essendon as nobody knew how the returning players would go. The best 22 was unsettled and took time to find out. We probably were aiming to play finals since we were in that range for most of the season. But it's obvious now that we are behind the best teams and we will continue to keep building.
I completely disagree that we fell short of what was expected. From finishing 15th in 2015 and winning the spoon last year due to suspensions, I find it hard to believe that winning finals was the expectation (although maybe a goal).
The majority of the media had us missing finals and most neutrals on bigfooty too.
 

Ambrosia

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I think they felt an obligation to at least give the banned players a go. Chances are Watson, Stanton, Hocking and Howlett wouldn't have been on the list if they played in 2016. Myers and Colyer were lucky to get as many games as they did this year. Suspect next year Wosha will be a less forgiving on the banned players with selection.

You've hit the nail on the head. This year was more about just getting back to being a normal football club.
 

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Bunk Moreland

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Dunno, haven't looked at it in detail. Maybe

- trade for a quality inside mid, inform Myers he's there for insurance only
- trade one of Leuenberger/Bellchambers, draft a cheap rookie for backup, groom a promising youngster
- play blokes who run both ways, the mids need more help from the forwards

There's probably not that much they could've done until now, but the picture should be a lot clearer. Play youth ahead of journeymen, even if it means the odd belting in 2018.
Myers played his usual mix of VFL and AFL and that'll be the case again.

What do you think we'd get for Bellchambers or Leuenberger? Neither would net us anything decent in the trade window, and given their injury histories having both on the list is more important. We don't have a third ruck.

I'm sure we'll be active in trade and FA areas.

So basically we're doing what you say.
 

Ancient Tiger

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Myers played his usual mix of VFL and AFL and that'll be the case again.

What do you think we'd get for Bellchambers or Leuenberger? Neither would net us anything decent in the trade window, and given their injury histories having both on the list is more important. We don't have a third ruck.

I'm sure we'll be active in trade and FA areas.

So basically we're doing what you say.
You guys are OK.
You need inside mids and an adjusted game plan. Patience is the key.
 

emblurr

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I think its kinda reflected in the way they deal with other clubs at the trade table too....(carlton very similar) in that they seem to put an unreasonable high value on their players when looking to trade them out or if a player wants out .
They genuinely seem to rate (or in quite a few cases overate) their players trade worth badly and hence have ended up with a poor reputation at trade time . Still seems to be vey much of the old 'superior' vfl mentality prevalent in the club
Yeah we really overrated Paddy Ryder and Michael Hibberd. AA says hello. Jake Carlisle had a fantastic year. Even Melksham had a great year and Melbourne supporters are happy with him.
 

Ron The Bear

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Myers played his usual mix of VFL and AFL and that'll be the case again.

What do you think we'd get for Bellchambers or Leuenberger? Neither would net us anything decent in the trade window, and given their injury histories having both on the list is more important. We don't have a third ruck.

I'm sure we'll be active in trade and FA areas.

So basically we're doing what you say.
Goddard
Baguley
Hooker
Leuenberger/Bellchambers

is all that should be getting games from the 12 over-28's currently on the list, which is substantial change. Unlikely though, given other areas of the list will need pruning also. Maybe you can make a case for some of the others staying on.

Essendon can transition to a young side, with all the optimism that comes with it, without a full-scale rebuild. Unless they get everything right it will take more than one year, but I think that a year of sacrifice is needed in order to go forward.
 

Milanista28

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Francis(20) Ambrose(26) Ridley(19)
Gleeson(24) Hurley(27) McKenna(21)
Zaharakis(27) Heppell(25) Parish(20)
Fantasia(21) Daniher(23) Stewart(23)
Begley(19) Hooker(29) Tippa(24)
Belly(29) Merrett(22) McGrath(19)

Laverde(22) Mutch(19) Goddard(32) Langford(21)

Want to see this as our best 22 for next season(Before trades and FA).
 
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Francis(20) Ambrose(26) Ridley(19)
Gleeson(24) Hurley(27) McKenna(21)
Zaharakis(27) Heppell(25) Parish(20)
Fantasia(21) Daniher(23) Stewart(23)
Begley(19) Hooker(29) Tippa(24)
Belly(29) Merrett(22) McGrath(19)

Laverde(22) Mutch(19) Goddard(32) Langford(21)

Want to see this as our best 22 for next season(Before trades and FA).
Like the look of that team.

Could have had that team this year if we didn't have to welcome back some of the banned players.
 

Heaps of fun

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I think Watson retiring will make a huge difference to the changing room atmosphere, imagine the young blokes seeing this guy moping around, to-be-or-not-to-be-a-barista and all that, all year long.

With Jobe gone, they take another step further away from the short-cut/not my fault culture they've been mired in, can only be a good thing and see them move up the ladder in a serious sense, i.e. to actually make a contest in an Elim final.
They're still going to have a bunch of jelly babies stuck to their arse after their stretches though.
 
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Yeah we really overrated Paddy Ryder and Michael Hibberd. AA says hello. Jake Carlisle had a fantastic year. Even Melksham had a great year and Melbourne supporters are happy with him.
Opposition fans don't understand what a huge void Ryder and Hibberd left.

Those clubs took our best ruckman and best running back the club had every right to demand a fair trade.
 

King Brown

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Except that is not what you said is it? You said Richmond don't get Annihilated in finals, that is more a North thing. You didn't say Essendon was the new North, and it would be unfair for you to say so.
I would have thought that was obvious given the context of the thread, you nitwit. No wonder you are so verbose, you can't think in concise terms and everything has to be explained to you.
This time next year there will be adult Essendon fans watching the footy that were born after that event occurred.
Irrelevant.
 

hk89

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I would have thought that was obvious given the context of the thread, you nitwit. No wonder you are so verbose, you can't think in concise terms and everything has to be explained to you.
Typical Bomber fan. Resorts to trading insults when logic gets in the way of their reality distortion machine.

Irrelevant.
You're right. A final played in 2000 is irrelevant to the present discussion, I have no idea why you brought it up.
 

King Brown

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Typical Bomber fan. Resorts to trading insults when logic gets in the way of their reality distortion machine.
No reality distortion here, simply giving you some tips on basic comprehension.

You're right. A final played in 2000 is irrelevant to the present discussion, I have no idea why you brought it up.
When you're talking about 'new Richmond' or 'new North' the context is the full history of a recent era. What was Richmond known for? Finishing 9th at best in between dismal seasons. This has been the case since 1982. So why does that history count and not North's abysmal record at getting pumped in finals?

You're a simpleton.
 

hk89

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When you're talking about 'new Richmond' or 'new North' the context is the full history of a recent era. What was Richmond known for? Finishing 9th at best in between dismal seasons. This has been the case since 1982. So why does that history count and not North's abysmal record at getting pumped in finals?
'Ninethmond' is largely a myth. If we are talking about who is the new Richmond, Richmond won a final since the game 17 years ago that you are trying to use as some kind of evidence. North's record in finals since Richmond last won one prior to Friday night is a good deal less embarrassing than your own.

You're a simpleton.
So far, you've called me a nimwit, a simpleton and a moron. At least you have a good thesaurus. How about you apply your rigorous intellect to saying something sensible in this thread instead of throwing insults at those who disagree with you?
 
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