Are Geelong making a mistake in giving Chris Scott a new contract extension?

[RedVest4]

stop with the equity you peasant.. ui just wonder at your coach's ability to bring everyone together
and then you stamp your foot and say why not now, why not us..

so stamp your foot and I'm sure scotty will do the same.

No idea what you're on about mate, have a read of what you write before clicking the post button...

 

[Pklz]

Am I right in saying they havent had a first round pick in the past two seasons? and they currently don't have one in the 2017 draft either after trading a future first rounder last year.

I don't know the Geelong list well enough to judge their youngest talent but from afar that is a cause for concern.

 

[javaguice]

Am I right in saying they havent had a first round pick in the past two seasons? and they currently don't have one in the 2017 draft either after trading a future first rounder last year.

I don't know the Geelong list well enough to judge their youngest talent but from afar that is a cause for concern.

A far as far as I know, champion

 

[Leeda]

No idea what you're on about mate, have a read of what you write before clicking the post button...

and I thought I could revolutionise the world by saying various things. according to you it is unprofessional to say what I want to say and that suddenly
you are designed to tell me that it is too different.

I don't always check nor do I need to.

check the lessons of the cats or even who you are speaking to in terms of whether I am allowed to speak or not.

rant over, and now you can return fire.

 

[Vdubs]

Inherited a great team so I just don't attribute that premiership to him. It's not like he built the side to achieve it.

Sure.
But go back and watch our 2010 finals performances, particularly v Pies- deplorable- too old, too slow was the catch-cry after that game, and then subtract the comp's best and MVP in G Ablett , and see if we were the flag faves coming into 2011. No way.
And he freely admitted he'd walked into an amazing place, gave credit to Bomber et al, but did with that team what Bomber dismally failed to do in 08 and 10. And after that 11 win, we have gradually lost most of those premiership heroes.

 

[Nightrain]

I think supporters of all teams are happy with this decision

 

[the harry]

Finals performance hasn't been what the club would have wanted post 2011, despite good H&A results.

Hard to see a club poaching him either. I couldn't name the coach before Ross who last bought by another club.

Just seems like an unnecessary decision to make at this time. If in a couple of years, after selling the farm for Danger, the best you get is a losing pre lim, do they back him to rebuild again?

 

[DelRe]

Winning premierships is hard - some sides go 60+ years between 'drinks' - I find it'll a little simple/dismissive to say Scott just inherited a flag. Plenty could have gone wrong after 2010, sure he had a better starting point than some, but he still had to harness what he had to win. Since then he's made finals 4/5 years with a H&A record of nearly 75%. It's a ridiculously underrated record to suggest he'd be fired unless there's more to it than that (the intangible 'losing the players etc').

But seeing as how he was dismissive of the Dogs flag in the media then he should be fired obviously which I assume is the reason this thread was started by a Dogs supporter.

 

[wcadams88]

Finals performance hasn't been what the club would have wanted post 2011, despite good H&A results.

Hard to see a club poaching him either. I couldn't name the coach before Ross who last bought by another club.

Just seems like an unnecessary decision to make at this time. If in a couple of years, after selling the farm for Danger, the best you get is a losing pre lim, do they back him to rebuild again?

Probably best to see what we actually gave to get Danger. Hint : It's not much

 

[Taylor]

Was it extended, or was he about to come out of contract?

I query why clubs sign coaches in March.

I look at it the other way, does a coach make bad long term decisions if they are trying to win enough games for a contract extension? Such as not playing a promising junior who would output less than the mature body who will retire in two years, to see the junior leave for more opportunity at the end of the season (post coach contract extension) etc

Where it might be beneficial to have a development year, wins not being important - but the coach has a clause that extends his contract if he wins more than 11 games, so club has a middling year and the coach is extended.

Or the coach pushes to spend a lot of money on bringing in some aging free agents for a push to cover for the lack of developing talent, perhaps due to the above and the club loses another player from the salary cap.

 

[Down at K Park]

Finals performance hasn't been what the club would have wanted post 2011, despite good H&A results.

Hard to see a club poaching him either. I couldn't name the coach before Ross who last bought by another club.

Just seems like an unnecessary decision to make at this time. If in a couple of years, after selling the farm for Danger, the best you get is a losing pre lim, do they back him to rebuild again?

A late first round pick, an average player who I don't think has even played a senior game for the crows, and paying him less than what he is worth for the best player in the game is selling the farm?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I look at it the other way, does a coach make bad long term decisions if they are trying to win enough games for a contract extension? Such as not playing a promising junior who would output less than the mature body who will retire in two years, to see the junior leave for more opportunity at the end of the season (post coach contract extension) etc

Where it might be beneficial to have a development year, wins not being important - but the coach has a clause that extends his contract if he wins more than 11 games, so club has a middling year and the coach is extended.

Or the coach pushes to spend a lot of money on bringing in some aging free agents for a push to cover for the lack of developing talent, perhaps due to the above and the club loses another player from the salary cap.

I'm thinking more on the basis that the coach hasn't had much chance to prove himself in the new year.


Critical Cat's fans go back to their last game, where they were mauled early in the Prelim when the coach openly told the media before the bounce that he had prepared the team and that there were some things he had put in place for the Swans so that they wouldn't have their way with his cat's like earlier in the year in Geelong.

Some cats fans, rightly or wrongly, think that Scott hasn't been able to get the best out of the group on a consistent basis(losses to St Kilda, Carlton and almost getting done by a lowly Tigers 2016), so the expectations set publicly prior to the Prelim not being met onfield were always going to cause some grievances.

I'm not surprised that some are perplexed at the timing of the extension.

 

[the harry]

Probably best to see what we actually gave to get Danger. Hint : It's not much

A late first round pick, an average player who I don't think has even played a senior game for the crows, and paying him less than what he is worth for the best player in the game is selling the farm?

Have to add in what you'll trade this season for that 1st round pick you need.

You don't want to need cash in a bank run.

 

[Benny78]

Let's not forget how insipid we were in that Sydney prelim. Once that becomes our standard every week we won't finish below 10th. Sometimes we're a top 4 side, and in finals we are generally witches hats and a laughing stock (not an overeaction at all). Players don't put their heart on the line nor even give it their all and it has been that way in essentially all of our finals under his tenure.

He's good and I guess you can't complain. So many what I feel are amateur decisions on game day when the team is getting outplayed. Last couple years he appears completely dumbstruck pulls out his red button and puts Taylor forward. When it's mattered around finals he just seems to get out-coached horrifically, to the point his decisions appear completely unqualified and worse than anybodys on this forum.

Our list had the potential to win it last year, if we found our peak form around finals time our list was probably better than all other sides. GWS will have a far better list than anyone from this season onwards and I don't see other sides being able to compete on paper. 2016 by far was our easiest chance. Sydney weren't even that great, we had a breeze run opposition-wise in finals yet choked our form against Sydney was not finals standard! We played poorly v Hawthorn and were lucky. We should've put our all into that prelim. Hawthorn/Sydney/Doggies was probably the easiest finals run any club could've got that year. Sydney were our only real threat. Doggies in comparison had far more difficult finals campaign and rose above every week to win the flag.

 

[Franc de Borges]

Inherited a great team so I just don't attribute that premiership to him. It's not like he built the side to achieve it.

A well worn point, but who do you attribute it to? A coach who was no longer there or a playing list that lost possibly the best teammate in history?

Either way, I don't see the point of resigning him right now.

 

[Franc de Borges]

and I thought I could revolutionise the world by saying various things. according to you it is unprofessional to say what I want to say and that suddenly
you are designed to tell me that it is too different.

I don't always check nor do I need to.

check the lessons of the cats or even who you are speaking to in terms of whether I am allowed to speak or not.

rant over, and now you can return fire.

How much for a gram?

 

[Benny78]

A well worn point, but who do you attribute it to? A coach who was no longer there or a playing list that lost possibly the best teammate in history?

Either way, I don't see the point of resigning him right now.

He's taken us in finals as witches hats for the last 6 years! First it was Fremantle and now it's Sydney! I wonder who he'll allow to pillage us when it matters this year.

Many people saying we won't make the 8 lol. Have they not learned how Scotts cats operate? We will place top 2 on the ladder. But have a zero percent chance of winning the flag and a 100% chance of going out in straight sets or the prelim if we're lucky.

71% winning rate and 2 prelims is great. Except that's as far as it will ever go. A H&A champion. His brother was the exact same with his club.

 

[Down at K Park]

Have to add in what you'll trade this season for that 1st round pick you need.

You don't want to need cash in a bank run.

We don't even need a first round pick. If you read the rule the penalty for not using 3 in 4 years or whatever it is is a ban from trading future first round picks. I'm sure we would happily take that "penalty".

 

[Franc de Borges]

He's taken us in finals as witches hats for the last 6 years! First it was Fremantle and now it's Sydney! I wonder who he'll allow to pillage us when it matters this year.

Many people saying we won't make the 8 lol. Have they not learned how Scotts cats operate? We will place top 2 on the ladder. But have a zero percent chance of winning the flag and a 100% chance of going out in straight sets or the prelim if we're lucky.

Some September performances have been very poor, but I still don't think Geelong were better than the teams that did progress in any of those years (except perhaps North in 2014). If anything, Scott has kept a side that's really no better than decent performing at a higher than expected level for several years.

 

[_Mike_]

Scott wont be going anywhere and will be at Geelong for another 3 years after this new contract, IMO

 

[Benny78]

Danger we got a good deal on. One first rounder instead of two or more.

It's the other trades. I guess pick 20 or so for Caddy is also a win for us (he's probably only worth a late 20's pick at best). But we traded two future picks for the likes of Tuohy and some other vanilla I can't even remember.

Don't like letting druggy clubs like Carlton and Richmond take advantage of us either (re Deledio not Caddy). Would've rather have shorted them and given Adelaide more.

 

[STPer18]

Danger we got a good deal on. One first rounder instead of two or more.

It's the other trades. I guess pick 20 or so for Caddy is also a win for us (he's probably only worth a late 20's pick at best). But we traded two future picks for the likes of Tuohy and some other vanilla I can't even remember.

Don't like letting druggy clubs like Carlton and Richmond take advantage of us either (re Deledio not Caddy). Would've rather have shorted them and given Adelaide more.

Henderson was a future first round which ended up being pick 17, and Tuohy was for our current future 1st while also receiving Calrton's future 2nd. If Carlton finish bottom 2 and we finish top 6, it'll end up being Smedts + pick 13-18 for Tuohy + pick 19-20.

 

[Benny78]

Henderson was a future first round which ended up being pick 17, and Tuohy was for our current future 1st while also receiving Calrton's future 2nd. If Carlton finish bottom 2 and we finish top 6, it'll end up being Smedts + pick 13-18 for Tuohy + pick 19-20.

Seeing as we're just too good to ever get a top 10 pick. We should be trading for at least a couple young first rounders. Instead of Tuohy we might've been able to get a recent first rounder in the off season. Like a Cam Mcarthy or someone more ideal. 17 other clubs half of them minnow projecting us to slide out of finals, a future first round pick is rather valuable, our club was devaluing it's worth and see's it as pick 18. While it probably will be pick 18 this year, so many other clubs have tipped us to slide and some would've seen it as a top 10 pick on the table.

Not so bad really, I believe our future pick might've had more currency to some other clubs. Provided Carlton place low and we place high I guess it really is fickle though.

 

[DrEvil_]

The Problem is he is a coach with a 71% win rate with a flag and 2 other prelim finals, he has turned over the list since Bomber left and has kept on winning.

I would want to wait and see but if you don't wrap him up he is a candidate to be poached by another club, as hard as that is for some people to believe.

Also ask yourself this is their something better out there for Geelong to go after, I would argue no they would have to sign an unproven coach.

Just like Hardwick?

 

[PatrickBateman]

Some September performances have been very poor, but I still don't think Geelong were better than the teams that did progress in any of those years (except perhaps North in 2014). If anything, Scott has kept a side that's really no better than decent performing at a higher than expected level for several years.

Fair summary.

The team's weakness is intent, hunger, drive. Teams get found out during finals if their intent at the footy / man / contest is not first rate. We've gotten found out since 2011, even with a great list in some of those years.

The Dogs are great example of the opposite - arguably not in the top 4 lists in the league talent wise, but just out hustled everyone in September.

Chris Scott has not managed to mitigate the clubs variability in intent throughout a game, it has the biggest range in the league if you ask me. I think he's too soft on under performing players, and hasn't built a culture where hard work and unrelenting aggression is a staple. The club likes it bruise free. This I don't like with regards to Scott. Especially since he was not that way as a player himself. He needs to extract consistency from the under performing mids (Guthrie, Blicavs, Duncan & Motlop), or he should be move on. That's where another flag could come from.