List Mgmt. Are our key position woes overblown?

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JimBob10

Debutant
Oct 7, 2011
107
178
AFL Club
Collingwood
It seems that the general consensus among the media and people on bigfooty that we have a terrible spine and very little depth in our key posts. IMO this is not as big an issue as people have made out and list wise we have good age profiles.

Firstly let me state for the record that 4-5 key positions in your 22 is the right number given the modern demands of footy being very much a running game.

Our stocks:

Back

Currently: Goldsack (30) & Dunn (30)
Depth: Reid (28) & Keeffe (27)
Developing: McLarty (19) & Schade (23)

Ruck

Currently: Grundy (23)
Depth: Cox (26)
Developing: McCarthy (19) & Lynch (18)

Forward

Currently: Moore (21) & Reid (28)
Depth: White (29), Cox (26) & Keeffe (27)
Developing: McCarthy (19) & Lynch (18)

All in all, I am reasonably happy with this list. Most positions are reasonably, well covered and those currently in the best 22 are playing well.

The two major queries of these lists are:

1. the age of Goldsack & Dunn

I am not too concerned with this as we have excellent cover in Reid (an former AA), Keeffe (a best 22 key back 2013-2104) and Schade (a mainstay during the first half of this season).

2. the lack of quality developing key forward

This is a genuine concern as there are no guarantees Lynch and McCarthy will make it and if they do, it is a while before they will play senior footy. Ideally I would love to have a Weideman type learning is craft in the VFL and playing the odd senior game when Moore or Reid misses.

To put our list in perspective, Richmond currently sit 5th on the ladder. Rance (27) is clearly the best key back in the comp and Riewoldt (28) for mine is a top 10 key forward in the comp with two coleman medals to his name. Outside of these two, can you name other key position players in their senior team? Astbury (26) and Nakervis (22) are serviceable but no better than most of our back ups. Also Rance and Riewoldt never miss games. How would Richmond go trying to cover these guys? In our case, almost all of our starting key position players have missed a lot of games through injury with the exception of Grundy.

My point is that yes our key position stocks can be improved but they are not the reason we are low on the ladder. The one glaring issue is the developing key forward which could be solved this draft by recruiting a Brander type with a top 6 pick.

But IMO I would try to downgrade this year's pick so that we can have a better pick in next years draft.

Maybe trade our pick 5 for Richmond's pick 15 and their 2018 first round pick.
or...trade our pick 5 for Brisbane's pick 14 and their 2018 first round pick.
 
A well reasoned post

I think like all clubs we could certainly add some depth to our KP stocks
S Reid will help and I've heard (rumour) we are deep in discussions with another

I agree it is not as dire as some on here would have everyone believe
 
It's the lack of Quality KP players.

Goldsack was a battler until this season.
Reid is made of paper mache and is a better defender than forward.
Dunn is undersized but a good stop gap until McLarty is ready.
White is finished.
Cox won't make it.
Schade was good in some games and heavily exposed in others.

On to the kids.

I like McLarty, think he will see senior footy early next year.
McCarthy going alright, but he is going to take some time.
Lynch at this stage will be no better than Corey Gault, but it's too early to tell.

We need a quality Key Forward, it's the one area we desperately need to address.

There are 22 key forwards that have kicked more goals than Darcy Moore this season. If we had 40 goal Key Forward along with Moore we would have the makings of a dangerous forward line, it would improve our structure immensely.
 

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Unknown Identity said:
It's the lack of Quality KP players.

Goldsack was a battler until this season.
Reid is made of paper mache and is a better defender than forward.
Dunn is undersized but a good stop gap until McLarty is ready.
White is finished.
Cox won't make it.
Schade was good in some games and heavily exposed in others.

On to the kids.

I like McLarty, think he will see senior footy early next year.
McCarthy going alright, but he is going to take some time.
Lynch at this stage will be no better than Corey Gault, but it's too early to tell.

We need a quality Key Forward, it's the one area we desperately need to address.

There are 22 key forwards that have kicked more goals than Darcy Moore this season. If we had 40 goal Key Forward along with Moore we would have the makings of a dangerous forward line, it would improve our structure immensely.
Click to expand...
I agree it's certainly quality, but our quantity isn't great either. Overall we've only got 12 key position players (backs - Goldsack, Dunn, Schade, McLarty; back/forwards - Reid, Keeffe; forward - Moore; forward/rucks - Cox, White, McCarthy; rucks - Grundy, Lynch), which isn't enough. Out of those 12 only Moore and Grundy are certainties to be on our list in 5 years on talent/performances. While we potentially could bring in other stop gaps it's clear we didn't future proof for the departures of Brown and Cloke and we need to bring in multiple young top end talents likely across multiple drafts to address this previous short sightedness and also plan for our older talls departing.

Sam Reid is an obvious solution and while he would offer more than a stop gap he's not going to provide much more than 5 years service, so we'd still young talent developing below him.



Backs -

Goldsack and Dunn are stop gaps as key position players despite the games shift to smaller talls. We'll be lucky to get another 2 years out of either

Keeffe looks preferred as a forward currently, while it's not something I agree with it's the clubs line. At 27 he's only once been a regular in the 22, which was for a short stint when we were decimated by injury. Handy depth, but like Goldsack and Dunn may not be on the list in 2 years; best case has 4 years left.

Reid's career has been destroyed by injury and for mine he won't play much beyond 30. Has 2 years left at best.

Schade, has fallen away dramatically after some early form. I can't see him offering more than Frost long term and we know how that worked out. Could be delisted at seasons end or could be maintained el la Gault due to our lack of height.

McLarty; I'm not as hot on him as some others. Great hands, but very lumbering. Could go either way.


Rucks -

Grundy; outstanding and still developing.

Cox would provide an adequate back up as a tap ruckman if Grundy got injured.

Lynch is very raw, something to work with, but a long term project and we won't know where he sits for a couple of years.

McCarthy like Lynch very raw, however he's only ever going to be a second ruck.


Forwards -

Moore shows huge potential. Will be a good forward, could be a great forward.

Reid, Keeffe see above.

White is out of favour and while I'd retain him for another year it's more likely the club will delist him. Handy depth, but we know his output.

Cox could yet be a good AFL forward, but needs to stick his marks more to mark that grade.

Lynch is a first ruck only

McCarthy very raw, could make a good forward ruck, won't know for a few years.
 
I'd like to see nick riewoldt on a Sam Mitchell type deal. Still good enough and the guy Darcy needs to play like. Similar attributes.


Reid, Darcy and riewoldt would make us extremely potent along side Elliot, fad and Kirby/sidebottom/daicos.

And we can use our first rounder for another young KPP who we can leave on the vflfor 1 season to develop.
 
spartan-magpie said:
I'd like to see nick riewoldt on a Sam Mitchell type deal. Still good enough and the guy Darcy needs to play like. Similar attributes.


Reid, Darcy and riewoldt would make us extremely potent along side Elliot, fad and Kirby/sidebottom/daicos.

And we can use our first rounder for another young KPP who we can leave on the vflfor 1 season to develop.
Click to expand...
I'd be up for Riewoldt on a Ben Hudson type deal. Player/ coach who isn't expected to be the missing piece of a premiership side or a stop gap solution to our forward line woes.
 
spartan-magpie said:
I'd like to see nick riewoldt on a Sam Mitchell type deal. Still good enough and the guy Darcy needs to play like. Similar attributes.


Reid, Darcy and riewoldt would make us extremely potent along side Elliot, fad and Kirby/sidebottom/daicos.

And we can use our first rounder for another young KPP who we can leave on the vflfor 1 season to develop.
Click to expand...
We certainly lack a mature forward to take pressure and attention off Moore; there's worse options than an aging Riewoldt.
 
perspective post which puts clarity on our current situation.
Large forward lines are gone, flexibility is key
we dont need a large forward we need a hit up forward , quick ,good skills ,tough in 1 on 1s , able to be a link man like Lynch (crows) membery ect
Mayne was that man, has proven though hes not got enough to play this spot. Whilst a new fresh recruit would be nice for the future.
We need to make finals ASAP
Nick Riewoldt or a casbolt but not Sam Reid (too inconsistent) for mine, maybe a rockliff as a free agent playing full forward perhaps, maybe even a Eddy from Port
 
Unknown Identity said:
It's the lack of Quality KP players.

Goldsack was a battler until this season.
Reid is made of paper mache and is a better defender than forward.
Dunn is undersized but a good stop gap until McLarty is ready.
White is finished.
Cox won't make it.
Schade was good in some games and heavily exposed in others.

On to the kids.

I like McLarty, think he will see senior footy early next year.
McCarthy going alright, but he is going to take some time.
Lynch at this stage will be no better than Corey Gault, but it's too early to tell.

We need a quality Key Forward, it's the one area we desperately need to address.

There are 22 key forwards that have kicked more goals than Darcy Moore this season. If we had 40 goal Key Forward along with Moore we would have the makings of a dangerous forward line, it would improve our structure immensely.
Click to expand...

Lynch is ruckman anyway.

We have a group of KPP in or around 30 years of age with only McClarty a lower end talent coming through, McCarthy promising athlete but is yet to do a whole lot at VFL level and finally Moore who is tracking well.

We need 1 KPF and 1 KPF defender imo remembering they take almost 3-5 years to come on in a lot of cases.
On top of this, KPP if they come on and we end up with "too many" hold great value on the trade table just ask GWS.

Edit: Another interesting thing is prior to this year Goldsack was not considered a KPP more of a 3rd tall.

Those banking on small fwd line "trend" set by dogs GF win, are barking up the wrong tree imo. Would of been interesting if Tom Boyd didn't have the game of his life as a CHF that day ( wont mention the umps).

Diversity of player type, ball movement and good forward systems is key and that includes having genuine KPFs.
 
Last edited:
Jasper84 said:
I'd be up for Riewoldt on a Ben Hudson type deal. Player/ coach who isn't expected to be the missing piece of a premiership side or a stop gap solution to our forward line woes.
Click to expand...

The sav / dermie set up works for me. Structure the forward line around Moore and have Riewoldt play the decoy.
 

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Good effort. It will depend on how some of these younger guys come on, who we recruit this year how they also come on.

Our woes are certainly overblown by some.on this forum.
 
TW Sherrin said:
Riewoldt could extend his career at Collingwood.

Saints play on the concrete at etihad which cant be great for his knee.
Click to expand...
Who do you think, you are kidding, Mr Hitler...
 
Baltimore Jack said:
A well reasoned post

I think like all clubs we could certainly add some depth to our KP stocks
S Reid will help and I've heard (rumour) we are deep in discussions with another

I agree it is not as dire as some on here would have everyone believe
Click to expand...

Who is the other you've heard we are interested in?
 
Keeffe and White will both be shown the door at seasons end. Don't count them are key position stocks are crap.

Goldsack performing well but undersized and old same with Dunn

Cox and Lynch are rucks not forwards

McLarty and McCarthy are a mile off but have shown signs and that is a positive

Moore will be a gun

Reid is quality when his body is right

Schade needs to shown something for mine he is average to good at most things but what's his point of difference? He needs to become very good elite in one or two facets of the game

Grundy is a gun
 
Worth mentioning that we have had more scoring shots in 2017 than Melbourne, crap conversion can make us look worse in the forward line. For us to move up the ladder we need:
* Elliot staying on the park, his goals per game is right up there
* Kick straighter
* Find one more player that can kick 30+ whilst still provide some defensive pressure (Daics?!?)


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