List Mgmt. Are our key position woes overblown?

[F_therest]

It seems that the general consensus among the media and people on bigfooty that we have a terrible spine and very little depth in our key posts. IMO this is not as big an issue as people have made out and list wise we have good age profiles.

Firstly let me state for the record that 4-5 key positions in your 22 is the right number given the modern demands of footy being very much a running game.

Our stocks:

Back

Currently: Goldsack (30) & Dunn (30)
Depth: Reid (28) & Keeffe (27)
Developing: McLarty (19) & Schade (23)

Ruck

Currently: Grundy (23)
Depth: Cox (26)
Developing: McCarthy (19) & Lynch (18)

Forward

Currently: Moore (21) & Reid (28)
Depth: White (29), Cox (26) & Keeffe (27)
Developing: McCarthy (19) & Lynch (18)

All in all, I am reasonably happy with this list. Most positions are reasonably, well covered and those currently in the best 22 are playing well.

I think you're being a wee bit generous.

Firstly i understand why you doubled up some players since they can play multiple positions, but in a list like this it makes it look like you have more options than you really do with the double ups.

Goldsack & Dunn are 30 and will need to be replaced soon.
Reid unfortunately is very injury prone.
White, Cox & Keeffe are listed as depth but really...not much quality there.
McLarty, Schade, Lynch & McCarthy are very much unknowns in terms of whether they'll make the grade.
Moore is young and promising, although hasn't had a big output this year.
Grundy is good.

Then got to also count the fact that KPP's that are drafted often take a couple of years before making meaningful contributions.

 

[pugsville]

I think we are reasonably well covered down back and pretty exposed up forward.

Ried, Dunn, Goldsack, Howe it's range of experienced defenders, a little undersized maybe but some strength, smart intercept marking , kicking skills it's a handy group. More and more defence is about reading the play, intercept marks and disposal.

McLarty promising but really unknown, need sth develop.
Schade are got some good pionts but been horrible at times, young but just filler unless he develops.
and then you could through in Keefe as backup CHB.

We can get by down back. Yeah we'd like a young developing gun, but overall it's reasonable.

Up front. It's Moore a great prospect, Elliot (not tall but so much of the forward line needs the guy) and a bunch of NQR, marginal, long shots.
Reid is an Ok stop gap.
,
Cox has strengths and weaknesses not a established AFL player handy backup, but needs to come on to be regular starter in a god side.
Keefe, White be surprised if both are around next year. either ahas demanded a place when we have so clearly been struggling. They are not nailing a spot in a team 14th of the ladder, so they are hardily going to lead us upwards. White is useful backup I'd keep him., Keefe has not looked anything like a forward, though a couple recent VFL matches he has progressed, but still isn't a good VFL forward (I had him down as hopeless to poor VFL forward , he's progress into poor to struggling average VFL forward from the ,limited stuff I've seen on the VFL)

Lynch & McCarthy are rookie long shots, to ever be AFL players, good luck to each of them

So we pretty badly need another good developing tallish forward talent and another who is ruck capable.

 

[Kappa]

It seems that the general consensus among the media and people on bigfooty that we have a terrible spine and very little depth in our key posts. IMO this is not as big an issue as people have made out and list wise we have good age profiles.

Firstly let me state for the record that 4-5 key positions in your 22 is the right number given the modern demands of footy being very much a running game.

Our stocks:

Back

Currently: Goldsack (30) & Dunn (30)
Depth: Reid (28) & Keeffe (27)
Developing: McLarty (19) & Schade (23)

Ruck

Currently: Grundy (23)
Depth: Cox (26)
Developing: McCarthy (19) & Lynch (18)

Forward

Currently: Moore (21) & Reid (28)
Depth: White (29), Cox (26) & Keeffe (27)
Developing: McCarthy (19) & Lynch (18)

All in all, I am reasonably happy with this list. Most positions are reasonably, well covered and those currently in the best 22 are playing well.

The two major queries of these lists are:

1. the age of Goldsack & Dunn

I am not too concerned with this as we have excellent cover in Reid (an former AA), Keeffe (a best 22 key back 2013-2104) and Schade (a mainstay during the first half of this season).

2. the lack of quality developing key forward

This is a genuine concern as there are no guarantees Lynch and McCarthy will make it and if they do, it is a while before they will play senior footy. Ideally I would love to have a Weideman type learning is craft in the VFL and playing the odd senior game when Moore or Reid misses.

To put our list in perspective, Richmond currently sit 5th on the ladder. Rance (27) is clearly the best key back in the comp and Riewoldt (28) for mine is a top 10 key forward in the comp with two coleman medals to his name. Outside of these two, can you name other key position players in their senior team? Astbury (26) and Nakervis (22) are serviceable but no better than most of our back ups. Also Rance and Riewoldt never miss games. How would Richmond go trying to cover these guys? In our case, almost all of our starting key position players have missed a lot of games through injury with the exception of Grundy.

My point is that yes our key position stocks can be improved but they are not the reason we are low on the ladder. The one glaring issue is the developing key forward which could be solved this draft by recruiting a Brander type with a top 6 pick.

But IMO I would try to downgrade this year's pick so that we can have a better pick in next years draft.

Maybe trade our pick 5 for Richmond's pick 15 and their 2018 first round pick.
or...trade our pick 5 for Brisbane's pick 14 and their 2018 first round pick.

You're happy with that list of KPP players despite it being bottom 4 in the AFL... interesting.

Name four clubs with worse KPP stocks than that.

 

[JimBob10]

You're happy with that list of KPP players despite it being bottom 4 in the AFL... interesting.

Name four clubs with worse KPP stocks than that.

West Coast's elite KPP did them a lot of good today

 

[DaVe86]

We have KPP issues. Today's win was great, but we arent going to win premierships with Goldsack as our full back.

I think we definitely needed a monster full back and another key forward.

We can make do without because we have a lot of goal kicking mids and also fas and elliot play tall. But in the end it would be good to have a Josh Kennedy kicking 6.

 

[saha]

I don't believe we have valued the investment in key position players enough. Clubs now have to either develop them from within, which takes time, or spend a bomb on one e.g. Franklin or a speculative T.Boyd-like poach. In recent memory can't recall many players like Jesse White who have come from other clubs cheaply and really proven to be game-changers at their new clubs. I'm happy to be corrected if you want to include players like Josh Bruce in that category. For me those types are still unproven.

Regarding Goldsack and players like Howe being brought into this discussion, realistically they are 'third talls' and can't be entrusted with manning guys like Kennedy, which we all saw today.

Despite all the 'best player' crap that we will hear in the lead-up to the Draft, I would quite simply pick the best tall player at our first pick unless it's clear in this apparent weak draft for talls that the top-end KPPs have been snapped up before our selection.

 

[PieBeast]

Surely this is a pisstake?

We're a solid KPD, KPF and another developing forward short at the bare minimum.

 

[anshell]

We definitely need another couple of key position players.West Coast thrashed us in the air today.If we had a couple of decent key position players we would have won that game easily today.

 

[loki04]

We definitely need another couple of key position players.West Coast thrashed us in the air today.If we had a couple of decent key position players we would have won that game easily today.

Groundhog day.

 

[sr36]

Groundhog day.

We took more contested marks than them. Kennedy and Darling took 5 marks between them. Aerial supremacy wasn't the difference.

 

[Shaneprice97]

We took more contested marks than them. Kennedy and Darling took 5 marks between them. Aerial supremacy wasn't the difference.

We actually had good games from all our talls except Cox and Roughead(who only had the resting ruck).

Moore, Mihocek, Howe(on Darling) and Grundy all played decent.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Medium term we need a full back and a key forward. Hopefully Kelly is one of those and maybe shaz the other albeit undersized slightly

Temporarily we are fine.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We took more contested marks than them. Kennedy and Darling took 5 marks between them. Aerial supremacy wasn't the difference.

Dont let the facts get in the way of a good whinge

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Article in the Age today after Maynard re-signed, says that most of our key players are now locked up until at least the end of next year.

Moore, Grundy and De Goey come out of contract end-2020, Crisp 2023 and WHE 2022. Maynard is now 2022.

There will be a new CBA end 2022, so hopefully the cap rises significantly and we can keep our guns.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Article in the Age today after Maynard re-signed, says that most of our key players are now locked up until at least the end of next year.

Moore, Grundy and De Goey come out of contract end-2020, Crisp 2023 and WHE 2022. Maynard is now 2022.

There will be a new CBA end 2022, so hopefully the cap rises significantly and we can keep our guns.

Reid Varcoe Greenwood Dunn Goldsack Wells Mayne Roughead Howe will be going or gone by then as well as Pendlebury and maybe Beams and Sidebottom at the end of their careers and on possibly a lower salary than current.

 

[sr36]

Reid Varcoe Greenwood Dunn Goldsack Wells Mayne Roughead Howe will be going or gone by then as well as Pendlebury and maybe Beams and Sidebottom at the end of their careers and on possibly a lower salary than current.

Mark my words. Sidey won't be going anywhere anytime soon. That guy will give 400 games a shake.

 

[Jafo]

T. Shaw says Buddy is a perfect fit for us

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Mark my words. Sidey won't be going anywhere anytime soon. That guy will give 400 games a shake.

Yep you’re probably right there.

 

[TheGreatSwan]

View attachment 656301
T. Shaw says Buddy is a perfect fit for us

His contract is very back-ended. We have higher priorities in retaining JDG, Grundy, Moore etc. Sydney would have to keep a significant amount of his contract on their books for it work. But will be 33 next year, so how much does he have left to give? Mental health issues and injuries. Not sure what he offers.

Signing up a player to such a big contract at the age of 26 was a huge risk which blew up bigtime! No premierships, probably stifled the development of other players, couldn't retain Nankervis/Mitchell and hasn't been able to attract any elite talent since Buddy joined. Eddie is a happy man!

 

[Jafo]

His contract is very back-ended. We have higher priorities in retaining JDG, Grundy, Moore etc. Sydney would have to keep a significant amount of his contract on their books for it work. But will be 33 next year, so how much does he have left to give? Mental health issues and injuries. Not sure what he offers.

Signing up a player to such a big contract at the age of 26 was a huge risk which blew up bigtime! No premierships, probably stifled the development of other players, couldn't retain Nankervis/Mitchell and hasn't been able to attract any elite talent since Buddy joined. Eddie is a happy man!

Maybe bring the Weid home to Pieland from Melbourne.

 

[Moeydw]

Maybe bring the Weid home to Pieland from Melbourne.

He's asking 650k at Melbourne, its a no from me.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Realistically only Wells Reid Goldsack Varcoe and Greenwood are coming off the books next year and would be on decent dosh. Dunn has been given a verbal commitment and Mayne has a year on his contract left. Anyone have an idea what those 5 would be on all up? just ball park?

Primary List
1 Crisp 2023
2 Hoskin-Elliott 2022
3 Sidebottom 2021
4 Howe 2021
5 Treloar 2021
6 Langdon 2021
7 Thomas 2021
8 Stephenson 2021
9 Pendlebury 2020
10 Mayne 2020
11 Beams 2020
12 Roughead 2020
13 Grundy 2020
14 Maynard 2020
15 De Goey 2020
16 Aish 2020
17 Moore 2020
18 Cox 2020
19 Scharenberg 2020
20 C Brown 2020
21 J Daicos 2020
22 Murphy 2020
23 T Brown 2020
24 Quaynor 2020
25 Kelly 2020
26 Bosenavulagi 2020
27 Sier 2019
28 Phillips 2019
29 Adams 2019
30 Elliott 2019
31 Dunn 2019
32 Crocker 2019
33 Greenwood 2019
34 Wills 2019
35 Reid 2019
36 Wells 2019
37 Varcoe 2019
38 Goldsack 2019


Category A Rookies

1 Mihocek 2020
2 Appleby 2020
3 Tohill 2020
4 Broomhead 2019
5 Murray 2019
6 Lynch 2019

Category B Rookies

1 Keane 2020
2 Madgen 2019


* = Uncontracted 2020

 

[Sea fog]

Maynard is now 2022.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Realistically only Wells Reid Goldsack Varcoe and Greenwood are coming off the books next year and would be on decent dosh. Dunn has been given a verbal commitment and Mayne has a year on his contract left. Anyone have an idea what those 5 would be on all up? just ball park?

Primary List
1 Crisp 2023
2 Hoskin-Elliott 2022
3 Sidebottom 2021
4 Howe 2021
5 Treloar 2021
6 Langdon 2021
7 Thomas 2021
8 Stephenson 2021
9 Pendlebury 2020
10 Mayne 2020
11 Beams 2020
12 Roughead 2020
13 Grundy 2020
14 Maynard 2020
15 De Goey 2020
16 Aish 2020
17 Moore 2020
18 Cox 2020
19 Scharenberg 2020
20 C Brown 2020
21 J Daicos 2020
22 Murphy 2020
23 T Brown 2020
24 Quaynor 2020
25 Kelly 2020
26 Bosenavulagi 2020
27 Sier 2019
28 Phillips 2019
29 Adams 2019
30 Elliott 2019
31 Dunn 2019
32 Crocker 2019
33 Greenwood 2019
34 Wills 2019
35 Reid 2019
36 Wells 2019
37 Varcoe 2019
38 Goldsack 2019


Category A Rookies

1 Mihocek 2020
2 Appleby 2020
3 Tohill 2020
4 Broomhead 2019
5 Murray 2019
6 Lynch 2019

Category B Rookies

1 Keane 2020
2 Madgen 2019


* = Uncontracted 2020

In terms of resigning I see our priorities as Adams Elliott Philips and Sier in that order. Then daylight. Can’t see any of them being a flight risk personally so hopefully contract season is smooth.

 

[Jafo]

He's asking 650k at Melbourne, its a no from me.

Cheaper option than Buddy?