Roast Are the Barham fans happy?

[knightwheelrqr]

If he had of been include ahead of Lockyer, I would've been absolutely ropable.

You have an uncanny knack of making the ordinary allegedly extraordinary, whereas battle-hardened veterans are simply tossed to the scrapheap in your little world.

Collingwood coach 2020? I ****ing hope not.

I have nothing against Lockyer and I have no doubt that he will feature in more games this season. Most? Probably not. But he will certainly feature in our plans for the rest of the season without a doubt.

Kicked the all important final goal when we most needed it and stoped what otherwise would have been a Melbourne victory. So his efforts this afternoon were certainly commendable because he performed when he needed to most.

I don't think anyone should be "simply tossed to the scrapheap" and it would be foolish to do so. O'Bree, Lockyer, Fraser, Prestigiacomo, Johnson, they will all continue to get games. Just not play in every single game.

I believe both players to be part of our rotation of 30 players all to be battle ready come finals time.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I have nothing against Lockyer and I have no doubt that he will feature in more games this season. Most? Probably not. But he will certainly feature in our plans for the rest of the season without a doubt.

Kicked the all important final goal when we most needed it and stoped what otherwise would have been a Melbourne victory. So his efforts this afternoon were certainly commendable because he performed when he needed to most.

I don't think anyone should be "simply tossed to the scrapheap" and it would be foolish to do so. O'Bree, Lockyer, Fraser, Prestigiacomo, Johnson, they will all continue to get games. Just not play in every single game.

I believe both players to be part of our rotation of 30 players all to be battle ready come finals time.

Sorry, I should've clarified re the Lockyer comment, that wasn't directed at you... I was talking more about the selection committees decisions in the past few weeks. That said, Lockyer well and truly proved his worth. Three critical tackles and a goal in the last capping off 23 touches, 7 tackles, 8 marks and a few score assists.

Re: the rest, it was more your "appreciation" of Barham. We're all allowed to have favourites, but I'm becoming more and more irked at the attitude across the board that our young, developing guys showing glimpses at a lower standard are going to become consistent 22 players that "should play every game regardless of form etc." (Not your words, but someone else posted something to this effect earlier). Tonight just proved why the over-optimism in our younger guys is so critically misplaced, and why the continually pessimistic comments towards our older blokes shits me.

I don't any of expect Lockyer, Johnson, Prestigiacomo, Brown and Fraser to play every game for the rest of the season, but I do expect at least four of the five to feature heavily in September, because they do offer their own respective skills to the side - and I believe, often, superior skills to those on the cusp. Davis/Medhurst playing one good game in every four yet drawing support from posters on this board because they happen to be a year or two younger than the aforementioned is a pet hate of mine. Especially when it only takes one solid game from the veterans for them to get flamed by our supporters. I can categorically state that in my opinion Brown was not in our worst half a dozen, yet already people are calling for him to be dropped for an overhyped youngster who most view through rose coloured glasses. Age shouldn't be a pretense for selection in our side - the best 22 should play.

It's a frustration thing more than anything with attitudes on this board for me - but thanks for addressing my queries, despite the ill directed nature of them.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

The Brisbane game last year is the only time i've seen him play in the flesh and he was like an animal with his attack on the ball and especially tackling. Didn't get to see that part of his game today.

Yes, in his role we didn't get to see that today unfortunately. Not so sure he is suited to the defencive role he was in today. His attacking flair in the VFL has certainly been a highlight to the extent that in recent weeks the opposition clubs have been giving him the no.1 tag.

He certainly has a long way to go, but essentially the role he played today I think was for education purposes to further develop his defencive skills in the way that we did with Thomas last year to make him a more rounded player who is more than a "one trick pony".

 

[Stifler's mom]

The problem for Barham is he will not make it as a outside mid due to having atrocious disposal, his only hope at AFL is as a tagger.

He has the pace and endurance but does he have the mental toughness to keep at it on an opponent and not give an inch.

Spot on loki04.

KS has as much idea about Barham's prospects as an AFL player as my 4 year old son.

Certain to be delisted.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Got to be worried when he's turning the ball over even without kicking it. Very disappointing outing today for Jaxson.

 

[KissStephanie]

Yep, he does seem to lack composure when stepping up in the seniors. I would like to see him get an extended run in the side to allow him time to get used to the speed and standard as it is a massive step up from the VFL to AFL.

Absolutely. His disposal has improved in the VFL this season apparently, and he has not been used as a tagger, so it was a big ask of him to be given the job of tagging Aaron Davey in his first senior appearance of the season. He was not good, but he is better than that, and he will be useful to the team at times in the future.

Of Barham's senior games that was far from his best. He has had several quality outings in the seniors before and should come back fresh and ready to fire after the break.

He wasn't good against Melbourne unfortunately, but he has played better than that, and depending on player availability, he should play against Sydney.

Has been good in big crunch games and showed that on debut against Brisbane last season. I don't think we have seen the end of Barham. Get a few more games into him and he will be fine.

He won a rising star nomination in his debut match, and there will be times when he plays well in the seniors again.

I'm still confident he can still make it at AFL level.

I think so too.

 

[Mickaman]

This spud today showed he is a poor mans Danny Stanley. O'Bree absolutely shits on him and you had people on here wishing O'Bree would get injured at training so Barham could play. Well, I hope that you are happy.

Agree not up to AFL standard. Deserves to be dropped. Turns it over nearly every time he gets the ball.

 

[Buena]

Can't help but feel he will never play for the seniors again.
Wasn't up for it at all. Is he contracted for next year? If not, i doubt he will be offered a new one. If so, he may get another chance. Maybe two.

 

[Daz_go_pies]

This post definitely makes me laugh. Do the majority of you have ANY idea about football at all? This is the kids first game this season and he has one bad game. Did anyone play outstanding anyhow?
He has been performing with at times 40 plus possessions in the MIDFIELD at the VFL and then he is thrown into the AFL as a tagging position (one he has no experience with) against one of the competitions best, Davey: how many goals did Davey kick? Oh, none.
You lot are all sad, and can I even say unfaithful to your club. If Barham was all that bad he would not have recieved the NAB rising star vote last year.
Just wait until he plays a great game and the lot of you jump on his badwagon, because that will happen.
And for those of you saying to delist him? Ha ha ha

 

[Old Spice]

Schadenfreude.

A poor game for sure, though by no means alone. I think the criticism of this game is justified, but calls for delistings, congenital defects is almost professional wankology.

Barham certainly did himself no favours yesterday and given some of the rich talent coming through, he might have buried himself. GC and veteran retirements might save his bacon.

 

[HeavyPop]

He wasn't very good, but I'd still give him another game where he isn't tagging someone.

 

[shawthing09]

I was optimistic with major doubts prior to the game and in that game a lot of my optimism has been sapped.

Tagging may not have been his role in the VFL but it's his main selling point at senior level. It's something that I bring out at length but if your going to be an extremely outside player, which Jaxon is and always will be, then you neede to be extremely damaging with your disposals. At the moment Jaxon is so well below that it is impossible to imagine it being even close to where it needs to be. It's not just the execution which is terrible but it's the decision making too. They are both very poor.

That said I was optimistic that someone with his level of attack and his pace would be able to develop some good core strength to be our tagging option. Being beaten by Davey would not have been so bad. If he put Davey under pressure and Davey was too good. If Davey had to work extremely hard for his touches. It wasn't the case. He didn't have the fitness and awareness to go with him. He maybe improve with more time tagging but till then his game was not anywhere near where it needs to be.

Handball revieces are infact the exact sort of thing that a tagger is supposed to stop. It's the reason why outside players are so much more commonly tagged out of the game then inside players. It's the reason teams don't bother tagging guys like Bartel or Mitchell. Davey didn't need to be stopped but for a guy to have so much space when he is supposedly being tagged is crazy.

On that note I wonder why Toovey or Heater wasn't switched to Davey in the second half. It was painfully clear Melbourne where making a concious effort to find Davey before switching inside. Heater was horrible and it may have been worth sending him to do the defensive foward job that Dunn was doing. He could not have been worse personally nor could he have been worse then Jaxson was. Toovey is our best small defender and has done the job as a defensive foward before. When your getting torn up by a single player something needs to be done.

 

[Mickaman]

I was optimistic with major doubts prior to the game and in that game a lot of my optimism has been sapped.

Tagging may not have been his role in the VFL but it's his main selling point at senior level. It's something that I bring out at length but if your going to be an extremely outside player, which Jaxon is and always will be, then you neede to be extremely damaging with your disposals. At the moment Jaxon is so well below that it is impossible to imagine it being even close to where it needs to be. It's not just the execution which is terrible but it's the decision making too. They are both very poor.

That said I was optimistic that someone with his level of attack and his pace would be able to develop some good core strength to be our tagging option. Being beaten by Davey would not have been so bad. If he put Davey under pressure and Davey was too good. If Davey had to work extremely hard for his touches. It wasn't the case. He didn't have the fitness and awareness to go with him. He maybe improve with more time tagging but till then his game was not anywhere near where it needs to be.

Handball revieces are infact the exact sort of thing that a tagger is supposed to stop. It's the reason why outside players are so much more commonly tagged out of the game then inside players. It's the reason teams don't bother tagging guys like Bartel or Mitchell. Davey didn't need to be stopped but for a guy to have so much space when he is supposedly being tagged is crazy.

On that note I wonder why Toovey or Heater wasn't switched to Davey in the second half. It was painfully clear Melbourne where making a concious effort to find Davey before switching inside. Heater was horrible and it may have been worth sending him to do the defensive foward job that Dunn was doing. He could not have been worse personally nor could he have been worse then Jaxson was. Toovey is our best small defender and has done the job as a defensive foward before. When your getting torn up by a single player something needs to be done.

I am by no means a MM hater like many others on this board. But I findthis to be one of the flaws of his coaching that he either does not make changes or changes it too late when there is a player that is carving us up. I agree I think Toovey should have played the tagging role on Davey.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Long way off yet like any player give him time. You cannot ride him off yet

 

[Go_Brad_Dick]

Long way off yet like any player give him time. You cannot ride him off yet

No you're very wrong. Unko players like this, with no football smarts, don't get smarter or more skillfull. They get fitter and stronger, and can take a role as a tackling scrapper, but remain the weak link in the chain their whole careers. Write him off and let another more desperate team develop him and suffer through years of klangers and costly turnovers.
Players that show composure, skill and intelligence are worth keeping, like Dayne Beams, Wellingham, Sidebottom etc.. Barham is a mongrel riding on his fathers name, he should be traded asap.
Never want to see him again.

 

[Daz_go_pies]

No you're very wrong. Unko players like this, with no football smarts, don't get smarter or more skillfull. They get fitter and stronger, and can take a role as a tackling scrapper, but remain the weak link in the chain their whole careers. Write him off and let another more desperate team develop him and suffer through years of klangers and costly turnovers.
Players that show composure, skill and intelligence are worth keeping, like Dayne Beams, Wellingham, Sidebottom etc.. Barham is a mongrel riding on his fathers name, he should be traded asap.
Never want to see him again.

you obviously have no footballing knowledge or background what-so-ever.
How you can even call him a mongrel is a joke, your judging him from one bad game. Your actually making a fool of yourself.
You will jump on his band wagon as soon as he steps up and plays well.
but until then pipe down

 

[Yam yam]

you obviously have no footballing knowledge or background what-so-ever.
How you can even call him a mongrel is a joke, your judging him from one bad game. Your actually making a fool of yourself.
You will jump on his band wagon as soon as he steps up and plays well.
but until then pipe down

Yep. Sick of all these people calling for dislistings one week, then praising the same players the next. Give Barham a few more chances. Who say's footy smart's can't be drummed in?

With some aging players in the squad and GC arriving, I think it's worthwhile keeping him.

 

[DaVe86]

Make him tag at VFL level. It's no use having him rack up 30 touches a week, then ask him to come in and tag Aaron Davey.

We need a tagger, and Barham fits the mould. But tagging is an art that requires practice and training.


Send Barham back to VFL to play predominantly as a tagger. His skills aren't good enough to be a 30 disposal a game player anyway.


Unfortunately, what will happen is he'll go back, play attacking and continue to press for selection due to the fact he is getting 30 touches a game. Then he'll come into the senior team where he'll have his pants pulled down by another star player.


I thought his job on Davey was ok in the first half. Davey was still good, but was contained. He blew Barham away in the 2nd half.


You need extreme fitness to be a tagger. It's one thing to run hard all day attackingly. But to chase a guy as quick as Davey all day requires a different skills set and fitness base altogether.



My appeal to Mick....stop playing guys out of position when they come into the AFL team. If they have broken into the side, then its because they have been dominating a certain position. Either play them in that position or don't play them at all.

Last year we saw Reid go into attack despite playing forward all year. Danny Stanley debuted at full back on Russel Robertson. Rusling is playing Full Back when at senior level he made his name as a forward. Macaffer played either back pocket or forward...but has been made a run with back flanker and is not getting involved. Goldsack played his footy as a defensive forward last year despite earning his spot due to his impressive work in the backline.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Fantastic post shawthing09, I think you covered it masterfully.

 

[Invigoration]

Probably a bit harsh singling the bloke out like this , but just to back up what ST is saying in regards to the handball receives and just generally how loosely he 'tagged' Davey. 3 times within a 10 minute space he let Davey do the exact same thing, it just wasn't good enough. He continually lost touch on him and in every one of these situations Melbourne gained an easy 50+ms of rebound coming out of defence.

16 minute mark








10 minute mark










6 minute mark - Toovey's spoil on Bate at the end of this Davey kick is brilliant though









Would have happened another 5 or 6 times later in the match as well, I just noticed these especially because of the close time frame they all occurred in.

 

[Scodog10]

Have people been watching his performances in the VFL? He hasn't been impressive at all. He hangs out the back for cheap handballs, after then getting said cheapy he will handball to another player under pressure who will give it back to him and then he will blaze away thus creating another turnover... Thus he receives 2 possesions but the net result is negative for us and he does this at least 10 times a game so thats a garaunteed 20 touches right there.

So to be blunt his kicking is so poor he makes himself about as useful as an accountant that can't count! Get rid of him now because an extended stay in the seniors wont do his kicking any good and it won't aid the team in any way.

 

[Kirby]

Nice work Invigoration!!

He really badly lost touch with Davey in each of those instances. It shows to me that he is either lacking in fitness or lacks the concentration needed to perform a tagging role.

ShawThing really summed up the issues with Barham well in his post.

 

[Daz_go_pies]

Have people been watching his performances in the VFL? He hasn't been impressive at all. He hangs out the back for cheap handballs, after then getting said cheapy he will handball to another player under pressure who will give it back to him and then he will blaze away thus creating another turnover... Thus he receives 2 possesions but the net result is negative for us and he does this at least 10 times a game so thats a garaunteed 20 touches right there.

So to be blunt his kicking is so poor he makes himself about as useful as an accountant that can't count! Get rid of him now because an extended stay in the seniors wont do his kicking any good and it won't aid the team in any way.

Obviously your watching a different game of vfl cos that is so untrue??

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Have people been watching his performances in the VFL? He hasn't been impressive at all. He hangs out the back for cheap handballs, after then getting said cheapy he will handball to another player under pressure who will give it back to him and then he will blaze away thus creating another turnover... Thus he receives 2 possesions but the net result is negative for us and he does this at least 10 times a game so thats a garaunteed 20 touches right there.

In VFL he plays the Ben Johnson/Aaron Davey role, rather than being the guy to negate it, so it was a bit of an ask for him to step in and do that job. As Invig points out (with pics!) though, he wasn't anywhere near Davey on far too many occasions. The other grave concern is that as an outside, run-and-carry, handball receiving player, his footskills aren't up to standard and he turns the ball over far too often. He has the running ability, the evasiveness, the speed... not the footskills or decision making.

 

[shawthing09]

He let himself down by hand too, As others have mentioned it is one thing to have the fitness base to play as an attacking option and another entirely to have the fitness base and concentration to tag. Taggers need to be willing to go whereever there man goes which requires a higher work rate because the offensive player will no doubt try to stay in motion as much as possible.

Taggers need to be relentless in their focus on denying their opponent, the moment you get caught ball watching or consider going into a contest that your man isn't going too is all it takes for a good player (especially one with the first step pace of Davey) to put enough distance to create headaches. In reality the only time you should not be within arms length of your man is if your side has the ball and you've made the decision to create or if the ball is in a contested area and your confident you are going to actually win the ball yourself.

Tagging is nowhere near as simple as it seems and I hope Jaxon and more importantly the selection pannel learnt from this and do not try to thrust a player into an important tagging role when they have not been playing in that way.