Are the Crows reaping what they have sown?

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At the end of last year a lot of people thought the Crows were burnt out because of their Wizard Cup winnning efforts. "Peaked too early" was a phrase often used.

Apparently, the coaching panel thought so too, if Macca's training reports were correct. They took a lot of the intensity and competitive work out of PS training this year.

Historically, the hallmarks of a Gary Ayres coached side have been their work rate and intensity. Their abilities to put pressure on the opposition, to get to a contest, to smother, to chase at all times, and to work into the free space are the normal attributes of this dour defender who coaches his team to play the same as he did. Remember the finals against Melbourne and Collingwood in '02?

Ignoring all the hysteria about gameplans for a moment, the most concerning thing for me was the almost complete absence of any of these.

So why did it happen?
Was it due to the low key preseason?
Are the players sick of listeneing to Ayres and "doing it tough"?
Or some other reason?
 

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Fergus

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#2
I'm not sure of the reason why but I agree 100% that this is the most worrying aspect of yesterdays performance. The relative success of recent years has been based on work rate more than any other reason. When we get ahead of ourselves and don't work hard, we get beaten.

Ayres has limitations as a coach but has in the past instilled a work ethic that we previously haven't had. It certainly disappeared yesterday.
 

macca23

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#3
Originally posted by naughty monkey
At the end of last year a lot of people thought the Crows were burnt out because of their Wizard Cup winnning efforts. "Peaked too early" was a phrase often used.

Apparently, the coaching panel thought so too, if Macca's training reports were correct. They took a lot of the intensity and competitive work out of PS training this year.

This year's pre-season was totally dull and boring compared to the one of 2003.

I used to marvel when watching them last year that we didn't maim half of our squad in those internal scratch matches - they were fierce. I mean fierce.

A milk-sop could have gotten through this year's pre-season from a physical point of view. The highlight - or was it a lowlight - was the complete lack of any intensity or physical presence whatsoever.

The coaching staff obviously did believe that we were up and running at full bore far too early last year as we faded badly at the end.

The downside is though that we have no real intensity about our game at the moment, and without we are a very ordinary side. Very ordinary.

I think if they could wind the clock back they would do it differently. Oh sorry, I forgot that it's Gary Ayres we're talking about. No, they wouldn't. :rolleyes:
 

dicko

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#6
No drama queens here

I dont think there are any drama queens here, but when will this team get a forward line.

We have struggled for the last 2 seasons at least with no real forward structure and relied on our midfield and back line to save the day

If this is an indication that these other two areas are strugling then its may be a pretty lean year, as it looks as though most other teams are on the way up ie the dogs, richmond (but they will self destruct by round 10) etc

I feel that we may have a few lean years as we will enter a rebuild phase. We have youth in some areas but apart from johncock I have not seen to many young stars emerging
 

tribey

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#9
Originally posted by Porthos
****, its just one game. You're a bunch of bloody drama queens.
Wouldn't be so bad if we'd erased the last 5 games of last year from our collective memories.

Apart from comfortably accounting for a lacklustre West Coast on our home turf in the Elimination Final, we were woeful against Collingwood, Kanagroos, Port Adelaide and Brisbane when it mattered. Let's not forget we threw away a top four finish (second after Round 19) to finish sixth.

So this summer we heard a lot of talk about how the media were wrong, the Crows are hungry blah blah blah, we'd see certain players back to their best, Roo's Club Champion acceptance speech was full of rhetoric about "unfinished business"... blah blah blah...

So what do we do? Come out with a full-strength team in Round 1 against an on the rise but mediocre North Melbourne and get smashed in every aspect of football and go down by 75 points.

Bravo.

No need for panic then.
 

Stiffy_18

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#10
Originally posted by dyertribe
Wouldn't be so bad if we'd erased the last 5 games of last year from our collective memories.

Apart from comfortably accounting for a lacklustre West Coast on our home turf in the Elimination Final, we were woeful against Collingwood, Kanagroos, Port Adelaide and Brisbane when it mattered. Let's not forget we threw away a top four finish (second after Round 19) to finish sixth.

So this summer we heard a lot of talk about how the media were wrong, the Crows are hungry blah blah blah, we'd see certain players back to their best, Roo's Club Champion acceptance speech was full of rhetoric about "unfinished business"... blah blah blah...

So what do we do? Come out with a full-strength team in Round 1 against an on the rise but mediocre North Melbourne and get smashed in every aspect of football and go down by 75 points.

Bravo.

No need for panic then.
Well said mate. Its not only one game it 5 of last 6. I agree with everything you said except that Roos are a mediocre side.
 

tribey

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#11
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I agree with everything you said except that Roos are a mediocre side.
Mediocre = moderate, middle of the road at present. ;)

There's no doubt they're a good young team who will be a real force in a couple of seasons time, but there's arguably 7 or 8 teams better than them at the moment.

Says a lot about us really, as Sunday proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that we're not one of them. And please no-one reply with the words "on paper"...
 

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PAfolwr

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#12
Yesterday was not a winnable game and if you win more than 4 or 5 games in your first half you have done ok.
Didn't see the game, but by the sounds of it the new plan B needs some work before it becomes effective.
Just put up with it for the time being. Without it you'll probably go crap for the whole year, if it works you will have a decent finish.
 

Stiffy_18

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#13
Originally posted by PAfolwr
Yesterday was not a winnable game and if you win more than 4 or 5 games in your first half you have done ok.
Didn't see the game, but by the sounds of it the new plan B needs some work before it becomes effective.
Just put up with it for the time being. Without it you'll probably go crap for the whole year, if it works you will have a decent finish.
I think Roos game was very much winable but we failed miserably.
 

Stiffy_18

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#14
Originally posted by dyertribe
Mediocre = moderate, middle of the road at present. ;)

There's no doubt they're a good young team who will be a real force in a couple of seasons time, but there's arguably 7 or 8 teams better than them at the moment.

Says a lot about us really, as Sunday proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that we're not one of them. And please no-one reply with the words "on paper"...
Well if you put it that way then i agree :)
 

macca23

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#15
Originally posted by PAfolwr
Yesterday was not a winnable game and if you win more than 4 or 5 games in your first half you have done ok.
Didn't see the game, but by the sounds of it the new plan B needs some work before it becomes effective.
Just put up with it for the time being. Without it you'll probably go crap for the whole year, if it works you will have a decent finish.
Kind words, but no gameplan works without a defined structure to work it within.

In the first quarter, Perrie was at CHF, with Hentschel at FF and Carey in the pocket floating around. We went inside the 50 easily and would have been 5 goals up with straight kicking.

In the 2nd quarter, Ayres took Perrie off and moved Carey to CHF. From that point on we struggled to get past HF. Carey can't get his arms up to compete for the high ball coming in - it's a lost cause.

Carey has value to the team, but it's close to goal, not at CHF.

We'll struggle all year if Ayres persists with Carey at CHF.
 

PAfolwr

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#16
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think Roos game was very much winable but we failed miserably.
IMO you'll be pushing to win any more than your home games in the first "round". This week's game is probably more winnable than last week's.

The point I was making I s'pose is that it is better to lose by 100 points knowing you are trying to improve (variation in game plan, players in different position, new players etc ) than to just plod along when you know that will not win you the flag. That unfortunately I know from experience.
IMO 2000 was a good year for Port. So far, this pre-season and our first game have also been very good from the same point of view, not because we won by 100 points. That happened mainly because Essendon players gave up in the end.
 

PAfolwr

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#17
Originally posted by macca23
Kind words, but no gameplan works without a defined structure to work it within.

In the first quarter, Perrie was at CHF, with Hentschel at FF and Carey in the pocket floating around. We went inside the 50 easily and would have been 5 goals up with straight kicking.

In the 2nd quarter, Ayres took Perrie off and moved Carey to CHF. From that point on we struggled to get past HF. Carey can't get his arms up to compete for the high ball coming in - it's a lost cause.

Carey has value to the team, but it's close to goal, not at CHF.

We'll struggle all year if Ayres persists with Carey at CHF.
The structure in the first quarter is the one that most on here have been asking for, or at least a similar one.
The other is the one that most on here feared.
Not sure what to say about that bit, but hardly surprising there are a few ****ed off people on here.
 

Stiffy_18

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#18
Originally posted by PAfolwr
IMO you'll be pushing to win any more than your home games in the first "round". This week's game is probably more winnable than last week's.

The point I was making I s'pose is that it is better to lose by 100 points knowing you are trying to improve (variation in game plan, players in different position, new players etc ) than to just plod along when you know that will not win you the flag. That unfortunately I know from experience.
IMO 2000 was a good year for Port. So far, this pre-season and our first game have also been very good from the same point of view, not because we won by 100 points. That happened mainly because Essendon players gave up in the end.
I think one thing we have been pretty good ever since Blighty came to the club is playing away from home. Lately we have become a very good travelling side and that why I don't take as much notice on where we play as some people do. Its true that its harder to win away from home but I think that playing a team like Kangaroos in Melbourne is an easier game than playing Brisbane at home.

No disrespect to Roos but Brisbane are a far superior side.
 

PAfolwr

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#19
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think one thing we have been pretty good ever since Blighty came to the club is playing away from home. Lately we have become a very good travelling side and that why I don't take as much notice on where we play as some people do. Its true that its harder to win away from home but I think that playing a team like Kangaroos in Melbourne is an easier game than playing Brisbane at home.

No disrespect to Roos but Brisbane are a far superior side.
Not sure I agree with all of that.

Over the last few years both Adelaide and Port Adelaide have benefited from the Melbourne blockbusters.
Because of the way the blockbusters are set up, then if the non-blockbuster teams are the weak ones we both benefit, and that can give a false impression of travelling better that one actually does.
This year some of those lesser teams will be a lot harder to beat on their home turf. North, Richmond and St Kilda will be very hard to beat barring injuries (not too sure about their depth)
The others apart from Carlton will also have their day.
Freo West Coast and Sydney are very tough now as well.

With Brisbane, their strength is their midfield. You are their bogey side as much as Sydney is ours. Match up well against them IMO.
 

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#20
Originally posted by PAfolwr
Not sure I agree with all of that.

Over the last few years both Adelaide and Port Adelaide have benefited from the Melbourne blockbusters.
Because of the way the blockbusters are set up, then if the non-blockbuster teams are the weak ones we both benefit, and that can give a false impression of travelling better that one actually does.
This year some of those lesser teams will be a lot harder to beat on their home turf. North, Richmond and St Kilda will be very hard to beat barring injuries (not too sure about their depth)
The others apart from Carlton will also have their day.
Freo West Coast and Sydney are very tough now as well.

With Brisbane, their strength is their midfield. You are their bogey side as much as Sydney is ours. Match up well against them IMO.
To be honest I can't remember the last time we beat Brisbane. It probably would have been back in 2002 when they had a few injuries and schell kicked 4 against Mal Michael.

We match up reasonably well on the field but these games are won and lost in the coaches box. Lynch has had a big day out against us for a while now and we are no closer in finding the right match up.

Midfield matches up OK but over the last couple of years we have lost Johnson and Bickley and haven't really replaced them. So really we have lost some of our midfield power.
 

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#21
Before the game I gave us, the Kangaroos, a 50/50 chance of beating Adelaide. Both our teams match up well around the ground. Generally the team who comes out and is switched on comes home with the points, our games are usually physical but fair and traditionally are relatively close games as both teams have good midfields.

Unfortunately for the crows they were not switched on for the four quarters, did not put enough scoreboard pressure on and that was combined with a complete drop-off of physical pressure. That turned what should of been a marginal loss into a rout.

I am not convinced that Adelaide has gone from a very good team last year to garbage. Ayres needs to utilise the players better and to rotate alot better when its really hot.

Perrie has done well against us at CHF in the past and Carey is much more dangerous at FF where he is not very often outmarked, that allows players like Welsh, Stiffy and others to crumb the pack in front of goal, not 60m out.

Adelaide just has to lift the intensity and go back to the hard aggressive attack on the ball. I give Adelaide a good chance of beating Brisbane this week. They do not travel well early in the year and traditionally do not make Lynch fly early on, even if fit. Voss may join that list.

You have a hard month ahead of you but I think Adelaide can show its true colours and win back the respect they lost during this game. Fans are fickle, if you end up winning the next five games you will all be talking premiership material. :p
 

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#22
Originally posted by Tas
They do not travel well early in the year and traditionally do not make Lynch fly early on, even if fit. Voss may join that list.
I hope that's the case. Lynch has kicked 20 goals in the last three games against us.
Voss may join that list.
Even better.
 

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#23
Originally posted by DaveW
I hope that's the case. Lynch has kicked 20 goals in the last three games against us.
Unfortunately I think that is the very reason that they will bring Lynch. He has a great record against us and I think they'll take a chance with him based on that, but I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Originally posted by Fergus
Unfortunately I think that is the very reason that they will bring Lynch. He has a great record against us and I think they'll take a chance with him based on that, but I hope I'm wrong.
Will be very interested to see what Brisbane do.
They have Collingwood at home next week. I wonder which match Lethal is more interested in winning?
May tell us a bit about Matthews' mindset atm.
 

Tas

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#25
Originally posted by naughty monkey
Will be very interested to see what Brisbane do.
They have Collingwood at home next week. I wonder which match Lethal is more interested in winning?
May tell us a bit about Matthews' mindset atm.
Yeah, I think Lethal would rather lose to Adelaide than risk losing to Collingwood. Its not so much the points but the psychological impact. He wouldn't want to give Collingwood any confidence by risking two vital players.

He knows Adelaide will have done some soul searching this week and would expect them to put a ton more physical pressure than a normal game. He has to have confidence in the depth of his list to cover two players, even if they are important players.

He may well lose Voss and Lynch at the end of the year so he might want to start looking for alternatives this year, particularly in away games where the expectation for a win is much lower.

I could be wrong though. :p
 
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