Are the Roos gone

[GOBBY1]

Have the Kanga's had there day.
Some signs are there but Im not sure.
Carey is definately carrying injuries and it is hard to see him playing another two full years. I think we may have seen the best of Carey, although valuable to the team I dont think we will see his match winning performances again. Like Dermy I think injuries are taking there toll.
I saw the game last week and that is the worst performance from North since Dennis took over. Maybe his motivation and speeches that once use to inspire the players is not there anymore. Time will tell, it was only last year the Bombers wanted to get rid of Sheedy look at them now.
I guess its hard the year after a premiership win every team plays better to try and beat you. The roos need a clean out though there is some old and dead wood there now. Every team needs to re build sooner or later and the Roos last year went for old players like Burton and Calthorpe.
What do you think are the Roos slowly going down, have we seen the best of Carey and from here he will just be a good player, or was it a bad day at the office against the Bombers and everyone is over reacting

 

[sainter]

Gobby,

I was about to start a topic regarding Denis Pagan and the article written by Robert Walls. Walls seems to cover much about what you asked.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/20000814/A4358-2000Aug14.html

He seems to think that Pagan has got all he can out of the roos and that his uncompromising coaching style has taken its toll on the players.

I was just wondering what the kangaroo and other supporters think about this.

I am particularly interested as his name has been linked towards the St Kilda coaching job for the past few weeks.

I know that if I had a choice of any coach in the league, Pagan would be my first choice. Not just because he is one of the best coaches in the league but that his tough, highly disciplined coaching style is EXACTLY what we need.

Having said that, I doubt he would leave the kangaroos and realise that Robert Walls is doing exactly what he is paid to do and that is to write controversial articles.

 

[chez]

North will benefit from a longer pre season. Seven months will be enough time to review players and the game plan. Carlton and Essendon have had times over the past few years when they finished out of the eight and they have had the luxury of a longer pre season. North have not been in this position for some time.

 

[Rooboy 96]

I think everyone is over-reacting, yes we have had our worst year in 8 years, and still managed to finished fourth (better then 12 other teams).

Some cleaning out needs to be done, but this has been happening since 1997, of the players on the list only Sholl and Scott should retire at the end of the year.

Players that I feel should be traded or delisted are, Chandler, Calthorpe, Dhurrkay(alredy retired), Kingsley, Hewitt, Spaull, Anderson, B.Stephens, and Hay. That is a quarter of the list gone. You would be very foolish to lose anymore players then that.

If the Kangaroos want some early draft picks for a change they may have to release one or two of their proven stars. This may be the way to go but in my opinion people like Mike (i hav a small dick) Sheahan, and Robert (I will coach anyone, for little success) Walls are just attacking a club they have not been able to since Adelaide beat North in a night match in early 1993.

[This message has been edited by Rooboy 96 (edited 15 August 2000).]

 

[Groucho]

Walls makes some reasonable points I suppose but , what's the point, he's not going to leave and the club will plan for the next season and trade,delist and draft players according to their perceived needs. There's some school of thought that North now needs an innovative,tactical orientated coach to bring fresh ideas to the club, but I'm not convinced that Pagan isn't those things and more.He's had a game plan that's worked brilliantly until just about now so he'll modify and update it in the off season and, assuming they can get some of the players they need,there's no reason to think North won't be a serious challenger next year. The off season last year was shorter by a month and that can make a lot of difference to a club thats just won the flag when you take into account celebrations,relaxations,operations and serious pre-season mode. The reports of our death are somewhat exaggerated and I think we deserve at least another season and then check the pulse again. By the way, I wish Walls would do his research better. He said this year was the worst for North under Pagan with 9 losses but in 1997 North had 11 losses including the prelim, so one of his indicators was wrong for a start.

 

[Pessimistic]

All in all it put the hawks on a hiding to nothing. If we win it will be something like "Hawks pick the bones of Roo smashed by big Black and Red bus" or if we lose "Hawks Teasing again"

One thing springs to mind. Pagan says he has already picked the team. How about publishing it then ?

Picking the weaknesses in hawthorn I would say they take a while to settle and geelong could have won the game in the first 20 mins on friday. If the roos don't do that then I fancy the Hawks to prevail.

 

[Shinboners]

Well, the Essendon fans out there should be very relieved that it was Robert Walls and not Mike Sheahan that wrote that article. With Sheahan's ability to get things wrong (remember the form turnarounds after he wrote articles writing off the Bulldogs, the North, and then Hawthorn?), you could have almost guaranteed that North would hit form and beat Hawthorn, Melbourne, and Essendon over the next three weeks.

Anyway, the Walls article....it's already in the rubbish bin.

 

[Pessimistic]

'The big tease' I think he called Hawthorn

The tease goes on...

 

[Peter Bell]

Not only are we gone, we left about 12 months ago.

As Forrest Gump said about us and our supporters

Stupid is as stupid does

Freo way to go...................

 

[GOBBY1]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96:
I think everyone is over-reacting, yes we have had our worst year in 8 years, and still managed to finished fourth (better then 12 other teams).

Some cleaning out needs to be done, but this has been happening since 1997, of the players on the list only Sholl and Scott should retire at the end of the year.

Players that I feel should be traded or delisted are, Chandler, Calthorpe, Dhurrkay(alredy retired), Kingsley, Hewitt, Spaull, Anderson, B.Stephens, and Hay. That is a quarter of the list gone. You would be very foolish to lose anymore players then that.

If the Kangaroos want some early draft picks for a change they may have to release one or two of their proven stars. This may be the way to go but in my opinion people like Mike (i hav a small dick) Sheahan, and Robert (I will coach anyone, for little success) Walls are just attacking a club they have not been able to since Adelaide beat North in a night match in early 1993.

[This message has been edited by Rooboy 96 (edited 15 August 2000).]

Agreed rooboy I would trade Cochrane too and Abraham

 

[Rooboy 96]

Gobby1,
I know everyone is saying get rid of Cochrane, but I truely think the boy has something to offer, I may be proven wrong but he has been at North for 5 seasons is only 21 , what would one more year hurt? I may be wrong.

Abraham did spring to mind, he has had a terrible 2000 but his skills are brilliant, and we should not be knee jerking (like walls "sack the coach") if he did go, you would want something for him.

 

[Bernie]

It has been covered before - and it's a no brainer BUT ... the Roos do require a match Plan B. Could they employ their one match strategy without Carey ? Last year's GF seemed to suggest that Carey need not dominate but I must say that this year other have just not stepped up. Should they force more responsibility onto others ?

The post-Carey view is not pretty, and in these days of club pressures, all the players must put their hand up NOW.

 

[GoEagles]

GOBBY1 - Brady Anderson is rumoured to be coming back to play for East Perth (the club he won the Sandover Medal with and attracted North Melbourne's attention)

As for Gary Dhurrkay he's been playing with South Fremantle and been averaging 3 or 4 goals a game with a few BOG performances, I wonder if he knew he was getting the chop from the kangas

 

[Schimma]

Football is a funny caper!

To write off Carey is just sheer stupidity.
Even to write off North is premature - they are still in the hunt whether making up the numbers or not.

But they are now clearly in damage control & season 2001 may well prove to be a watershed in their history.

Ten years of power footy is a fair innings.
But history shows that when there is a comprehensive changing of the guard as happened against Essendon (third belting this year if you include the Ansett Cup I think) it is very difficult for the top liners to regain their mantle.

Even with everything stacked in their favour the WCE found this out. Although Judge is NO Pagan.

But North's situation is made far worse by their off field woes. Forget the Fantaroos. The mere fact that for the past 9 years Hawthorn's poor onfield results sent them to the brink of merging & exposed the fairweather fans among them, 2001 will find them so financially superior to North it is quite simply remarkable.

Onfield North are beginning to feel the many ripples from the Colbert deal. His injuries & poor form have been a problem but so has what was given up to secure him at an aging club.
His paypacket also puts the squeeze on trying to keep Bell & King. I would give my left nad to just have one of the pair at Collingwood.
The reprecutions in trying to make these 2 happy enough to stay will be great.

So if you assume that North's better players will play to their optimum & they squeeze another year out of Martyn this is still a handy skeleton:

B: xxxxx Martyn xxxxx
HB:Archer McCartney Pickett
C: Harvey Grant Simpson
HF:Colbert Carey xxxxx
F: xxxxx McKernan xxxxx
R: Burton King Bell

INT: xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx

Maybe Pike & even old man Blakey can keep it up also but there are still a lot of gaps & a huge question mark over the current youngsters coming through.

They have lost ground at the pointy end of the biz. For their long term survival these 2 coming drafts are very important.

They definately need to beat Hawthorn.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Schimma, you seem to have an obsession with the Kangaroos considering you barrack for the icon of the 30's, I think you should look in your own backyard before you jump the fence.

I can only find 3 holes Schimma, they will be filled by some kids.

B: Pike Martyn Blakey
HB:Archer McCartney Pickett
C: Clayton Grant Simpson
HF:Colbert Carey xxxxx
F: Harvey McKernan Abraham
R: Burton King Bell

INT: Stevens Lange xxxxx xxxxx

 

[Schimma]

Forgot about Stevens.

Rooboy if you can't distinguish between serious comment & threads containing childish slurs so be it.

If you can't see it coming then so be it.
Maybe you're a bigger fool than I first thought.

But you're right, nothing bad could EVER happen to North because good players never grow old & if they do they're easily replaced right.

You must be worried though. Otherwise you wouldn't react to harmless comment in such a manner.

 

[Roo Recruitment Officer]

I dont know how you can say to get rid of Hewitt and Hay. Each of them are quite good. In my opinion Hewitt is better than McKernan but just isnt given the opportunity. Hay is also talented.
I reckon we are seriously missing Scotty Welsh in the side, and the Colbert move in general has been, and will be, a disaster both for the fact that team morale has dropped because of it and that he isnt ever going to be worth the money he is getting paid.
There are youngsters coming through like Ablett and the little goal sneak Farmer look alike. Im just afraid that by the time they make it to the seniors in a couple of years North will have decided to move to Sydney.

We have to delist Calthorpe, Cochrane, Spaull and Anderson. How many chances can Anderson get?
Its time North moved away from getting players like Bell (Even though he is a champ), Grant, Calthorpe etc and get some fast and relatively tall wingman type players like Rama from Essendon for instance.

Anyway, Norths fate will be sealed when Mickey retires. There are no good backman coming through, not only at Full Back but anywhere in the back six (Assuming Pickett becomes a midfield player).

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[5up4down]

I doesn't matter who Norff get. As long as some other club has made them what they are......Then we pounce!!!!!!!!