Are there any vegetarian or vegan footballers?

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i have. i don't think you realise that he's using many studies that support veganism/vegetarianism to prove his point of how the studies are flawed and then using this same data to in fact reiterate the point he's making....happy to discuss further if you can be bothered to provide specifics. i'm not going to argue with someone who's going to go tribal and isn't going to have an open mind though.

I get the impression we're talking about completely different things here. I generally like to look at academic literature rather than lay summaries of it. Thus, when you provided the link to this guy's website (and thanks for that, by the way) I ignored most of his general topic summaries and went to the "Bibliography" pages under a couple of the headings I thought were more interesting (to be honest, not the ones relating to meat vs. non-meat diets; I think it's pretty clear that carefully-planned diets containing meat, and carefully-planned diets not containing meat, can both be about as healthy as any diet can be, so for me that's a non-issue). The first one I clicked on related to comparisons between the effectiveness of low-carb and low-fat diets. In this bibliography section, the website owner (I assume) has written single-sentence summaries of each article listed. Looking at a few of the articles, my impression was that his summaries and the conclusions of the authors were frequently different. This made me skeptical of the website, so I did a quick search about the author and discovered he's what I would consider to be a "fad-diet alternative-medicine" type of person. My original post in this thread was to warn others potentially looking at the website of this, in the hope that they wouldn't take the guy's word for it and thus be misled---basically, a suggestion to exercise skepticism regarding his claims.

In terms of specific examples of instances where I thought his summary of an article mismatched the researchers' conclusions, it was a few days ago that I looked into them so I can't remember which articles that led me to that conclusion (believe it or not, I'm not on Big Footy every day). However, to assess whether I had just (un)luckily clicked on some particularly bad ones, I took a look at the very first article he lists on the bibliography page, to see whether it also fits the pattern I remembered. The article is under the "Nutrient density and bioavailability" heading. This isn't the topic of the thread, or the discussion that's being conducted here, so I hope my assessment of it is pretty uncontroversial (and not, e.g., an indication of my "going tribal", whatever that means!). Here's what the website states concerning the article (website owner's comment in italics):

1. Kerstetter JE, Wall DE, O’Brien KO, Caseria DM, Insogna KL. Meat and soy protein affect calcium homeostasis in healthy women. J Nutr. 2006;136(7):1890–1895. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/7/1890/4664693.
Intestinal absorption of calcium is lower when soy protein is consumed instead of meat protein. The high phytic acid content of soy is responsible for decreased calcium bioavailability because phytate strongly chelates multivalent metal ions, including zinc, calcium, and iron.
The website owner's comment is clearly based on a couple of sentences in the second-last paragraph of the article (pp. 1894--1895):
If, in fact, intestinal calcium absorption is impaired during consumption of a soy-based diet, the high phytic acid content of the soy foods may play a role. Phytic acid, inositol hexaphos- phate, is a phosphorus-rich compound that occurs naturally at very high levels in soy foods. Phytic acid strongly chelates multivalent metal ions, particularly zinc, calcium, and iron, resulting in the formation of insoluble salts that are poorly absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract (28). Several investiga- tions showed that phytic acid interferes with iron (29–31), zinc (32,33), and probably calcium absorption (34,35).


Note that the researchers' statement is conditional. If intestinal absorption of calcium is lower following consumption of soy than meat protein, then this might be why. The reason it's conditional is that they didn't find a significant difference between the rates of intestinal absorption (there was a non-significant trend). Now, in this case, I wouldn't say that the website owner's summary actually contradicts the relevant article, but it sure doesn't provide an accurate characterisation of it. It also gets rid of any nuance---for instance, that the experiment involved using soy with all the isoflavones removed, because the researchers thought they might have been responsible for previous findings that protein from meat leads to greater calcium loss that protein from soy. It seems to me that either the website owner hasn't read the article, or that he just didn't understand it when summarising it, or that he's read it and understood it but deliberately misconstrued it for whatever reason one might have to deliberately misconstrue a scientific article.

I would say I'm happy to provide further examples, but as interesting as reading random articles about diets and nutrition can be, I read enough scientific literature in my job not to want to do too much of it after work (unless it's something really cool). I hope this gives you some idea of why the website you linked to raised my hackles, though.
 
I had another read, NOTHING of what you are writing is easily accessible in his summary, if people are expected to read all the way through the deep dive then it is misleading content.



And yet here is the table from the study which specifically shows control for smoking, BMI and other confounding factors.



The majority of soy worldwide is fed to livestock.

A person who follows a vegan diet produces the equivalent of 50% less carbon dioxide, uses 1/11th oil, 1/13th water, and 1/18th land compared to a meat-lover for their food.

I'm not sure where you're getting your picture of veganism. All the ethical and environmental arguments seem to me to be pretty heavily one sided, and the health arguments are at worst balanced. But **** me for wanting to have a less negative impact on the world.

I hate it when, in defending being an omnivore, you get forced into playing devil's advocate for the factory farming industry.

Modern agrarian practices in general are awful.

Also what you've said regarding the summary, that's not true - in writing the summary the author could either deliberately or inadvertently reach the wrong conclusion from their findings, and summarise it incorrectly. If you give enough of a crap you should be willing to actually sift through the data.
 

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I have tried veganism a few times but I fall off the wagon, it always seems such a hassle to find stuff to eat on it and a pain in the arse preparing it. I'm too lazy and conditioned to eating meat.

I also love the taste of meat when cooked well, although too much red meat does disagree with me so I stick to chicken and fish in the main.
 
Farmer pretends he's an expert on health and not motivated by whatever he can grow and flog.
This really is quite pathetic.

Someone who is avid fan of 'wrestling':$:$:$ and is a well known farmer HATER makes up sh!t as per usual.
I made no comment on health whatsoever.

What? I literally said there are weirdo among any group of people. Some people are ****** up mate. I'm not defending those people.

There are apparently 2 million vegans in Australia. Are you shocked there are some weirdos among them?

People like yourself who want to judge a group of people by their worst members are the ones that need to look at themselves.

Would you like to be judged by the worst people in your neighborhood or other group of people you could be a part of?

2 million my giddy aunt.
More lies.

Do you know what the protesters are protesting?

Yep, their public MO is all about 'animal welfare'.
So, what animal welfare issues did these cretins highlight in the recent, and ongoing, (and yes, they are ongoing but not being reported), farm invasions?

None. Zilch. nada.

Their ACTUAL MO is the total, 100%, cessation of all animal based agriculture and animal harvesting, such as commercial and recreational fishing.

Not all vegans are animal activists, but 100% of these farmer hating and invading scum are vegans.
 

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I have tried veganism a few times but I fall off the wagon, it always seems such a hassle to find stuff to eat on it and a pain in the arse preparing it. I'm too lazy and conditioned to eating meat.

I also love the taste of meat when cooked well, although too much red meat does disagree with me so I stick to chicken and fish in the main.

I don't think I'd ever go vego (and definitely not vegan) but I try source my meat as ethically as possible.

I keep my own free range chickens for eggs, and I order whole sides of free range, grass fed beef and pork direct from farmers who deliver it to Perth themselves.

I'm confident my whole food diet of meat/eggs, veggies, fruit and (non-milk) dairy is healthier than those vegans who eat all that processed faux food. My ex-GF was vegetarian and I ate a lot more veggies than her, she would be more accurately described a pasta-tarian and ate a ton of processed carbs.
 
I don't think I'd ever go vego (and definitely not vegan) but I try source my meat as ethically as possible.

I keep my own free range chickens for eggs, and I order whole sides of free range, grass fed beef and pork direct from farmers who deliver it to Perth themselves.

I'm confident my whole food diet of meat/eggs, veggies, fruit and (non-milk) dairy is healthier than those vegans who eat all that processed faux food. My ex-GF was vegetarian and I ate a lot more veggies than her, she would be more accurately described a pasta-tarian and ate a ton of processed carbs.
You're right about the food intake. A person can eat only twisties and drink coke all day and they are vegan but hardly healthy. The aim has to be a plant based diet.
 
And what would happen to the world if this happened?

Why don't you tell me?
And concentrate on Australia if you don't mind.
If we had to feed 25 million people on the small amount of arable land we have, with the undoubted limited water sources we have...just how would we feed them on a plant based diet?
Do you understand that intensive horticulture is the greatest contributor to a total monoculture on the face of the planet?
Everything, and I do mean everything, dies when you intensively cultivate for plant based foods.
What, exactly, would happen to the millions upon millions of acres of broadacre grazing land that then becomes useless?

I don't think I'd ever go vego (and definitely not vegan) but I try source my meat as ethically as possible.

I keep my own free range chickens for eggs, and I order whole sides of free range, grass fed beef and pork direct from farmers who deliver it to Perth themselves.

I'm confident my whole food diet of meat/eggs, veggies, fruit and (non-milk) dairy is healthier than those vegans who eat all that processed faux food. My ex-GF was vegetarian and I ate a lot more veggies than her, she would be more accurately described a pasta-tarian and ate a ton of processed carbs.


See, this is just feel-good bullsh!t.
Those cattle, sheep, pigs etc have been slaughtered in the exact same abattoirs that your average steak in Coles or Woolworths was.
The very same facilities which vegans lock themselves to whilst protesting.
I'd prefer to see which UNETHICAL farmers you would refuse to buy from, instead of falling for clever marketing.
 
See, this is just feel-good bullsh!t.
Those cattle, sheep, pigs etc have been slaughtered in the exact same abattoirs that your average steak in Coles or Woolworths was.
The very same facilities which vegans lock themselves to whilst protesting.
I'd prefer to see which UNETHICAL farmers you would refuse to buy from, instead of falling for clever marketing.

'Falling for'? Why wouldn't it be preferable to buy my food direct from farmers instead of going through those campaigners at Coles or Woolworths?

I never said anything about abattoirs, but this way I know exactly where my meat comes from, I know how it was raised, I know the farmers raising it personally, and I know my money all goes straight to them instead of some giant conglomerate middle-man taking a cut. And by buying a whole side only one animal has to die on my behalf and then I use it nose to tail lasting me the better part of a year.

The stuff I get from these farmers tastes miles better than meat I've had from supermarkets, so if you're saying all supermarket meat is raised in the same grass fed manner then something else is going wrong somewhere along the line to make it inferior.
 
Everything in Coles and Woolies comes from somewhere in the supply chain. Produce can theoretically be grown in Victoria, stored, trucked to Melbourne, stored, trucked to Perth, stored, trucked to a store then put on the shelf. Alternatively I could buy apples from a bloke with 30 acres of apple trees...

As far as meat goes the supermarkets don't get the best stuff and how many links in the chain before it gets there is anyone's guess. Better from butchers, better still if you know how it got there.
 
I once met a girl I liked.

They told me they were vegan, then put my penis in her mouth.

And then she was cured, loves meat. Not necessarily mine now but just about any she can take :drunk:
 
I have tried veganism a few times but I fall off the wagon, it always seems such a hassle to find stuff to eat on it and a pain in the arse preparing it.
Going vegan is tough, but Vegetarianism/Pescatarianism/etc > Vegan is way easier because you don't need to carry around a reference book.

For me, prepping food isn't too different because I still eat lots of the same dishes I ate before- there's heaps of asian/indian options if you're that way inclined.

I'm too lazy and conditioned to eating meat. I also love the taste of meat
Yeah I can't help you with this one.
 
Going vegan is tough, but Vegetarianism/Pescatarianism/etc > Vegan is way easier because you don't need to carry around a reference book.

For me, prepping food isn't too different because I still eat lots of the same dishes I ate before- there's heaps of asian/indian options if you're that way inclined.

Yeah I can't help you with this one.
I'm also trying to stay pretty low carb as well (verging on Keto) so haven't been eating rice or pasta. Difficult to go full on Vegan and Keto.
 
Why don't you tell me?
And concentrate on Australia if you don't mind.
If we had to feed 25 million people on the small amount of arable land we have, with the undoubted limited water sources we have...just how would we feed them on a plant based diet?
Do you understand that intensive horticulture is the greatest contributor to a total monoculture on the face of the planet?
Everything, and I do mean everything, dies when you intensively cultivate for plant based foods.
What, exactly, would happen to the millions upon millions of acres of broadac
I'll try and answer your questions one by one.
I can concentrate on Australia but deforestation for livestock production is undoubtedly one of THE biggest issues facing the planet and Australia is right up there in contributing to this issue.
The simple answer here is that once livestock is removed from the precious little arable land that we have, we can then grow food on that land. Livestock production is extremely inefficient in terms of calories in/out, so that one calorie of beef production(out) requires 7 calories of grain (in). Some estimates put livestock production as consuming 40% of the grain /corn grown on the planet. So feeding the country and the world is more than achievable on the land we have.
Yes, I understand the effects of intensive horticulture. It is however immeasurabley preferable in terms of environmental impact compared with intensive livestock production.
Hopefully the broadacre farms currently being used for livestock production that are unsuitable for horticulture can be returned to nature which will allow the land to return to its natural state. This will hopefully have the effect of allowing our native species to once again thrive, reversing the horrifying trend that places Australia in the top 5 countries for extinction of native plant and animal species.
Consuming a plant based diet is currently considered the best thing for the environment and is championed by many leading public figures.
Queensland is unfortunately one of the leading contributors to land clearing for livestock production, something I would imagine most Queenslanders are not proud of.
So a plant based diet will lead to a healthier diet, a better environment and better treatment of animals.
There is no other single action a person can take that so positively effects themselves, the environment and the animals on our planet.
The US beef council admits a 5% contribtion to greenhouse gases through livestock production, the most extreme environmental figure I found was 50%. If we take the difference as true (lets say 25% contribution), then that is our Paris agreement target right there. No treaties, agreements nothing. Each of us can make the difference required to save the planet. And we can make the changes right now. Today. Its really that simple.
 

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