Are we a development team?

[jmac70]

We are in this position because we don't have a single player on the list who has developed into an A grader since 2012.

 

[Vicky Park]

Short answer is yes, we are now.

 

[TradeDraft]

Nah, you only get those types if you are going for a premiership crack, which we aren't next year for sure.

So stick to the age bracket I mentioned, 20-26, GWS is a good starting point, as are the Suns, plenty of excess talent on those lists.

But with the Big Trade of Treloar we can't get any real Guns from Suns or Giants

 

[DAWESOME!!]

No, no no, no more first round bloody picks.

Sorry to go off at you, but enough kids.

It's time to stop developing, and time to start doing what North, Hawthron, the Swans and the Eagles do so well, top up.

Josh Daicos and Callum Brown should be the only kids brought into this club next year. Everyone else should be of a mature age ready to play senior football.

So maybe I would trade Cloke and Brown for round 1 picks, but I'd then on trade them for players in our required age group (20-26).

We don't have the core that the Hawks did to recruit role players around (e.g. Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Lewis, Rioli, and initially Franklin). With Swan basically done, we have Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom and maybe Adams. Cloke isn't someone we can build a team around. Reid and Elliott have major injury issues, albeit Reid seems ok now. Moore and de Goey are kids.

I think we do need to keep trying to draft kids AND snag quality FAs. But there's a limit to what we can do in that regard, so it will take a while. A lot of this list won't be part of a premiership, or even at the club by the time we challenge.

We're heading into Melbourne "rebuild of the rebuild" territory. Because with the collapse in Cloke's form, and the failure of Broomhead, Kennedy, Scharenberg, Freeman to be able to establish themselves as AFL players, our previous rebuild has gone completely off the rails. Schaz and Broomy might still become something, but they aren't going to be the nucleus we were hoping they'd be.

If we start bolting on "canny" free agents and mature types onto this list at the expense of new young talent, we'll end up where Richmond is now. We've done a bit in this space in grabbing Treloar (equivalent to a Shaun Burgoyne recruitment in my mind), and Varcoe.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Think we are still in the very early stages of a rebuild to be honest. I think our list has a ton of potential. But I think the rebuild is only just beginning tbh and the team needs the right direction.

If what you're saying is true, then what on earth have we been doing for the last three years and why was much of the supporter base and the club itself during the pre-season pumping us up as being serious finals contenders?

I just have a feeling of revisionism here because things are not going to plan the way many had envisaged. A team in rebuild would be just worried about the development of a young team and any win (especially against good opposition) is one to cherish and lap up rather than speaking of finals and winning flags in 2017/2018.

If we need to continue rebuilding, then our current rebuild will be considered a failure sadly.

 

[Babylove]

The club cannot keep hiding behind the we're in 'development' or 'rebuild' excuse to stop supporters from rightfully questioning what's going on the field and whether the likes of Bucks and the coaching group need to be fairly scrutinised for our poor performances.

I've been as patient as the next supporter and was willing to write off 2014 and 2015 as development years as it was evident that our rebuild started at the end of 2013, but in 2016 we should be at the next stage now and really starting to show signs of improvement, and that we're heading in the right direction at this club under Bucks and this playing group.

I don't expect us to win flags or be top four by any means at this stage, but I do expect to see a level of progress when it comes to a game plan that will work and see the club naturally progress and improve in the right direction.

I think there's huge potential for this playing group if they're playing a good brand football and are properly developed but I'm starting to lose serious faith that Bucks and his assistants can take these guys to the promised land. My faith in Bucks being a premiership coach with us has rapidly evaporated.

The club has made big statements in the last few years and haven't delivered. At the start of 2014, Gary Pert said that we'd be expecting a premiership within three years and it's not going to happen, and Bucks' contract at the time was extended to the end of 2016 to allow this process to happen.

Towards the end of 2014, Bucks made promises and assurances that we'd better in 2015/2016 after a disappointing 2014 fade out but we've actually regressed. I thought 2015 was a relatively good year for us barring two or three shocking performances but this year we've been diabolical in all our games barring the Essendon match.

For what it's worth, I've always seen our premiership window opening up towards the end of the decade rather than in 2017 as most allude to but there comes a point when you have to question whether we have the right people in charge to allow this to flourish. I don't think Bucks is the long-term solution to our coaching structure and I just think we're delaying the inevitable with him.

The club would only sack him if there's no going back and he's been a dismal failure otherwise any doubts or divided supporter bases regarding his credentials won't push the club to make a tough call unless there's a clear sense that the supporter base no longer believes he's the right man for the job.

As Mattys123 rightfully points out, our age profile seems to suggest our window won't be open for another 3 to 4 years rather than next year as the club and many supporters have excitedly believed in, but I think our push to our next window can be accelerated with the right people in charge of coaching and that's why I have grave doubts about Bucks' credentials.

I agree with most of your points, but I should clarify, this talk is not coming from the club, Pert as recently as ANZAC Day still had finals this year as the minimum standard. And Bucks was not using this as an excuse when he mentioned the disparity between time together between us and other sides either, that was part of a broader discussion that he and Chris Scott were having. The discussion about us being a development side was started by the guys on AFL 360 as an independent observer, based on our demographic and player use this year.

As other supporters this year the age profile and number of players used has largely been brought about by form and injury. Our list of players out for these reasons isn't as extensive as someone like the Giants, but pretty much all the players on our injury & out of form list are when fit and in form, in our best 30 (not sure teams really have a best 22 anymore with so much selection from all teams horses for courses and match up influenced).

 

[TradeDraft]

We don't have the core that the Hawks did to recruit role players around (e.g. Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Lewis, Rioli, and initially Franklin). With Swan basically done, we have Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom and maybe Adams. Cloke isn't someone we can build a team around. Reid and Elliott have major injury issues, albeit Reid seems ok now. Moore and de Goey are kids.

I think we do need to keep trying to draft kids AND snag quality FAs. But there's a limit to what we can do in that regard, so it will take a while. A lot of this list won't be part of a premiership, or even at the club by the time we challenge.

We're heading into Melbourne "rebuild of the rebuild" territory. Because with the collapse in Cloke's form, and the failure of Broomhead, Kennedy, Scharenberg, Freeman to be able to establish themselves as AFL players, our previous rebuild has gone completely off the rails. Schaz and Broomy might still become something, but they aren't going to be the nucleus we were hoping they'd be.

If we start bolting on "canny" free agents and mature types onto this list at the expense of new young talent, we'll end up where Richmond is now. We've done a bit in this space in grabbing Treloar (equivalent to a Shaun Burgoyne recruitment in my mind), and Varcoe.

Harsh calling Broomhead a Fail and Schranberg and Freeman where Injuries. Kennedy was the only true Fail

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Nah, you only get those types if you are going for a premiership crack, which we aren't next year for sure.

So stick to the age bracket I mentioned, 20-26, GWS is a good starting point, as are the Suns, plenty of excess talent on those lists.

With GWS, we've done this already with Adams and Treloar. And they are two of the best young players on our list. But its cost us a heap as well. I don't know how much more trading of top shelf items we can do to keep plundering them before it becomes self-defeating. The Giants are too clever at the trade table for us to advance ourselves the way Essendon and Hawthorn did with Freo.

Speaking of Freo, that's a club we should be looking hard at to spring some talent from. Reckon more than a couple of players willbe thinking hard about whether they really want another 5 years of Ross the Boss and if they're going to get a McCarthy or Hogan, they're going to be short on cap space.

But the reality is, I don't think we're a destination club anymore the way we have been, let alone like a Geelong or Hawthorn.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Broomhead is on the border Dave! It's now or never with him and with the vast amount of injuries we're experiencing he has a massive chance to shine and prove his credentials this year.

If he cannot hold down a regular spot in the team this year, then I think he'll be very close to being considered a failure considering we drafted him on the border of a first round and second round pick in 2012.

 

[TheSierBear]

Yep, I love Broomhead on the wing, reckon still, on paper, we don't have a bad side. But, we need to be realistic with Broomhead. He hasn't taken his chances. He's been gifted a chance after a poor showing in a VFL game and played poorly last week in the seniors. Now is the time for Broomhead. Let's be honest, after his second year his value had increased, if you take into account the monetary value placed on Broomhead by PA and Adel. But, since then, for whatever reason he hasn't progressed. You can blame Bucks, the media can blame Bucks, we can balme injuries (freudian slip)stalling his development, but in the end, it's all between the ears for this guy. This should be seen as a break-out game. It's your time to shine Broomhead!!!

 

[Scodog10]

Copout for an underperforming club!

 

[PicaBoo]

We are in this position because we don't have a single player on the list who has developed into an A grader since 2012.

Fasolo ( started in 2011 but really got better in 2014/2015 ) Elliott, Williams. Berg and Freeman are 'potential' but we will never know what could have been.
What amazes me is that we still have players on the list that after years at the club still haven't demanded senior selection like Gault, Broomhead.

 

[jmac70]

Fasolo ( started in 2011 but really got better in 2014/2015 ) Elliott, Williams. Berg and Freeman are 'potential' but we will never know what could have been.
What amazes me is that we still have players on the list that after years at the club still haven't demanded senior selection like Gault, Broomhead.

No A graders there.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

The club said they had a plan to push for a flag in 2017. So what went wrong in the last 3 years?

Going hard in trade period meant that what is happening now has taking the club by surprise and now it's back to drawing board. The rebuild is just starting if you ask me

Agree.

The club have decided to pull the pin on finals after 2 rounds.

Plus, it's a great scapegoat!

 

[PieBeast]

Collingwood chief executive Gary Pert has heightened expectations at his powerful club, declaring the Magpies expect to win a premiership within the next three years.

Defending the club's decision to extend coach Nathan Buckley's contract until the end of 2016, Pert said it was important to have stability at the top, with football chief Rodney Eade also boasting a long-term deal.

"They have created a culture, they have created a list and team that we have very high expectations of,'' he said ahead of Collingwood's season-opening match against Fremantle on Friday night.
"I would suggest not only playing in finals for the next three years, but I would expect us to be top four and winning a premiership during that period of time.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...three-years-20140314-hviw8.html#ixzz47mXlxqDx


This is how they sold us Bucks' first contract extension at the start of '14

 

[jmac70]

Collingwood chief executive Gary Pert has heightened expectations at his powerful club, declaring the Magpies expect to win a premiership within the next three years.

Defending the club's decision to extend coach Nathan Buckley's contract until the end of 2016, Pert said it was important to have stability at the top, with football chief Rodney Eade also boasting a long-term deal.

"They have created a culture, they have created a list and team that we have very high expectations of,'' he said ahead of Collingwood's season-opening match against Fremantle on Friday night.
"I would suggest not only playing in finals for the next three years, but I would expect us to be top four and winning a premiership during that period of time.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...three-years-20140314-hviw8.html#ixzz47mXlxqDx


This is how they sold us Bucks' first contract extension at the start of '14

Embarrassing.

 

[bucksisbest]

We are, but we shouldn't be.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

It's not Scharenberg's fault, and if we hadn't drafted him, we likely would have taken Aish anyway. But was thinking today, imagine if the Doggies had taken a tall and Bontompelli had slipped two more spots to us, and then Cripps had been there at pick 10, and both had played the way they have at the Dogs and Blues.

Having two top 10 picks in the 2013 draft be busts, on the back of Kennedy and Broomhead both being disappointments has absolutely rooted us.

 

[HFF]

That's evident.
We are also quite a poor team, our poorly coached at least.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

To be a development team there would have to be signs of development though ...

 

[TradeDraft]

Copout for an underperforming club!

There shown how Overrated they Rated our List or How shit our Development has been

 

[TradeDraft]

Collingwood chief executive Gary Pert has heightened expectations at his powerful club, declaring the Magpies expect to win a premiership within the next three years.

Defending the club's decision to extend coach Nathan Buckley's contract until the end of 2016, Pert said it was important to have stability at the top, with football chief Rodney Eade also boasting a long-term deal.

"They have created a culture, they have created a list and team that we have very high expectations of,'' he said ahead of Collingwood's season-opening match against Fremantle on Friday night.
"I would suggest not only playing in finals for the next three years, but I would expect us to be top four and winning a premiership during that period of time.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...three-years-20140314-hviw8.html#ixzz47mXlxqDx


This is how they sold us Bucks' first contract extension at the start of '14

Do they mean they Destroyed the Culture?

Well it's been 2 years and not any closer so Next Year or Bust going by that

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Do they mean they Destroyed the Culture?

Well it's been 2 years and not any closer so Next Year or Bust going by that

But is it even meaningful to hold him or others to comments in March 2014?Back then in Scharenberg and Freeman we thought we'd brought in two key pieces who by now woild have played 30-40 games. We thought Cloke would recapture his form.

Injury and form slumps beyond what he could have expected have made the future he was describing unrealistic. Lots of that is the club's fault. But could he have known then that Scharenberg was going to do two knees? That Freeman would never play a game? Etc.

 

[Quicky]

No, no no, no more first round bloody picks.

Sorry to go off at you, but enough kids.

It's time to stop developing, and time to start doing what North, Hawthron, the Swans and the Eagles do so well, top up.

Josh Daicos and Callum Brown should be the only kids brought into this club next year. Everyone else should be of a mature age ready to play senior football.

So maybe I would trade Cloke and Brown for round 1 picks, but I'd then on trade them for players in our required age group (20-26).

I think there seem to be a few around the forum advocating for us to burn down the house when it comes to our senior players and wanting them traded. I think that would be disastrous. If we get rid of the few senior players we have we will destroy ourselves as we are a very young list already. We need to change our thinking towards how we get the best out of the senior players we have. Is that with Buckley? Is that with our current conditioning program? We need to look at this with an open mind.

 

[loki04]

Not even in question we are in full rebuild mode and have been for 3 years.