Are we a development team?

[sr36]

We are a regression team.

 

[12kilos]

Pert openly stated if we do not make the 8 this year it will be a huge failure simple?
Buckley has confused everyone supporters ! players! press! , i personally think now one knows what kind of a team we are?

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

Look at our list, not the 22 that played yesterday. We have a good mix of class, role-players and exciting youngsters. I don't think the football department had a plan to shape up to Carlton in round 7 2016 minus Swan, Elliot, Adams, Cloke, Varcoe, Brown, Williams, Ramsay, Sinclair and Shaz. I certainly don't think they planned to have a team that included all of Maynard, Cox, Smith and Crocker. The list is better than development stage IMO, the problem is the developing players should be developing in the VFL.

 

[TradeDraft]

We are a regression team.

Been the same ever since Bucks too over

 

[jackcass]

Buckley said yesterday that our profile is such that we choose to pick younger players such as Crocker, over experienced players such as Cloke. I read this as a pretty firm indication that we are still in rebuild mode. Do you think our recruitment and list development has been successful?

My post was a direct response to yours about developing A graders not about whether we're rebuilding or not.

I'm pretty vocal in my preference to go to the draft rather than trade but neither route is immune to grabbing a player who doesn't make the grade. I'm also on record as saying that we've been in a rebuild since the 2010 GF. I don't see it as some bolt from the blue.

 

[jackcass]

Then why has the Club Lied to us about where we are as a List and Club?

Dave, the evidence was there for all to see. Club made predictions based on who they thought would be available to play and how they expected them to play. Can't predict injuries to important players, important players doing stupid stuff and getting suspended, or senior players struggling with form. It's hardly a lie.

 

[jackcass]

Is there no merit in a 22 possession game from a centre half forward? Is there no merit in a guy working hard and crushing players with his tackles? Is there no merit in a forward generating 4 scoring opportunities? What is an acceptable performance from Cloke in your opinion?

Yep, even his last senior game he was the best performed forward and that's despite spending time in the ruck. 15-16 disposals, couple of goals. People gonna see what they want to see.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It's not Scharenberg's fault, and if we hadn't drafted him, we likely would have taken Aish anyway. But was thinking today, imagine if the Doggies had taken a tall and Bontompelli had slipped two more spots to us, and then Cripps had been there at pick 10, and both had played the way they have at the Dogs and Blues.

Having two top 10 picks in the 2013 draft be busts, on the back of Kennedy and Broomhead both being disappointments has absolutely rooted us.

This x 100

When you have top 10'picks you must nail them.
Maybe maybe Scharenberg can become Clement or maxwell like, maybe?

But like most things there can be light

De Goey and Moore may turnout pretty special talent longer term.

So trade Cloke and Others and bring in low draft picks and off we go again hoping we pick a few beauties.

The ONLY way to have sustained success is load up on elite talent supported by the medium talent.

Our list can look ok but really it's heavy on medium level talent.

so we are still building and whether people like it or hate it that's where we are.

So who is elite now and likely to be so in five years time.

Pendlebury, Treloar and maybe Moore, DeGoey, ....
Supported by better talent in Sidebottom and Adams and Scharenberg

That's something but we need to keep bringing in talent
Who knows maybe Grundy will join the above (hello ruck coach....)

 

[loki04]

People are talking as if Sharenberg is a walk up elite player.

Facts are he has played sweet FA footy going back to even before he was drafted, when he has played has look ok without showing any real elite ability (good for where he has come back from but far from where we need him to be).

He is going to take at least 2 seasons back playing before we know what player we have got.

Will it be the greatest jnr since carey? or will it be a a solid B to A player level of player? ie good without being elite.

 

[Gone Critical]

People are talking as if Sharenberg is a walk up elite player.

Facts are he has played sweet FA footy going back to even before he was drafted, when he has played has look ok without showing any real elite ability (good for where he has come back from but far from where we need him to be).

He is going to take at least 2 seasons back playing before we know what player we have got.

Will it be the greatest jnr since carey? or will it be a a solid B to A player level of player? ie good without being elite.

Agree Shaz is far from a walk up 22 unfortunately. He is not the top 10 draft pick we gained with great hopes to be elite. Now in his fourth season with 4 average games to his name. If he can become a best 22 player he will have done well. I think he will need development time in 2017 before he is ready for AFL footy. Realistically a solid B-C type is a fair expectation. To have missed so much footy over 4 seasons without ever having been a developed senior player makes it very tough to be much more than that.

 

[TheSierBear]

I don't think the recruitment needs an overhaul, but some guys need to be pushed out, and money needs to be splurged on someone like Wright, or whoever is at the Dogs. I also think the recruiting department needs a rejig on top of blokes getting pushed out.

 

[Mateyman]

The club said they had a plan to push for a flag in 2017. So what went wrong in the last 3 years?

Going hard in trade period meant that what is happening now has taking the club by surprise and now it's back to drawing board. The rebuild is just starting if you ask me

People keep saying we "went hard to top up" in the trade period. Who did we top up with? 20 and 22 year olds who'll be around for 10 years? Sounds fairly similar to a draftee to me

 

[Mateyman]

People are talking as if Sharenberg is a walk up elite player.

Facts are he has played sweet FA footy going back to even before he was drafted, when he has played has look ok without showing any real elite ability (good for where he has come back from but far from where we need him to be).

He is going to take at least 2 seasons back playing before we know what player we have got.

Will it be the greatest jnr since carey? or will it be a a solid B to A player level of player? ie good without being elite.

Are they really? Or are they saying he would probably be in our best 22 at present, which really, if you have halfway decent skills and are a defender shouldn't be that hard

 

[boxy99]

People keep saying we "went hard to top up" in the trade period. Who did we top up with? 20 and 22 year olds who'll be around for 10 years? Sounds fairly similar to a draftee to me

Howe 25. It's more what we gave up for them 2 seconds for aish and 2 first for treloar.

The club was obviously very happy with were the list was at.

 

[Mateyman]

Howe 25. It's more what we gave up for them 2 seconds for aish and 2 first for treloar.

The club was obviously very happy with were the list was at.

So a player at the beginning of their prime traded in... hardly topping up with old men. Also you have to give up good picks to get someone like Treloar because he is a proven jet, just as Brisbane would've given us 2 firsts for Beams had they been allowed to trade future picks - because you know that Treloar won't be a Toumpas/O'Rourke/Gumbleton etc. Haven't seen much out of Aish and haven't liked him so far but 2 picks in the 20s seems fair for a 3rd year pick 6 who was nearly the Rising star in his first year. People overrate draft picks

 

[Mateyman]

Agree Shaz is far from a walk up 22 unfortunately. He is not the top 10 draft pick we gained with great hopes to be elite. Now in his fourth season with 4 average games to his name. If he can become a best 22 player he will have done well. I think he will need development time in 2017 before he is ready for AFL footy. Realistically a solid B-C type is a fair expectation. To have missed so much footy over 4 seasons without ever having been a developed senior player makes it very tough to be much more than that.

Daniel Menzel's looking pretty good this year

 

[boxy99]

So a player at the beginning of their prime traded in... hardly topping up with old men. Also you have to give up good picks to get someone like Treloar because he is a proven jet, just as Brisbane would've given us 2 firsts for Beams had they been allowed to trade future picks - because you know that Treloar won't be a Toumpas/O'Rourke/Gumbleton etc. Haven't seen much out of Aish and haven't liked him so far but 2 picks in the 20s seems fair for a 3rd year pick 6 who was nearly the Rising star in his first year. People overrate draft picks

What we gave up for aish is massive overs he's small, slow and can't kick.

We gave up more for Treloar then what Geelong gave up for danger.

Trading away a future first means the club thinks there going to go pretty well

 

[spartan-magpie]

This x 100

When you have top 10'picks you must nail them.
Maybe maybe Scharenberg can become Clement or maxwell like, maybe?

But like most things there can be light

De Goey and Moore may turnout pretty special talent longer term.

So trade Cloke and Others and bring in low draft picks and off we go again hoping we pick a few beauties.

The ONLY way to have sustained success is load up on elite talent supported by the medium talent.

Our list can look ok but really it's heavy on medium level talent.

so we are still building and whether people like it or hate it that's where we are.

So who is elite now and likely to be so in five years time.

Pendlebury, Treloar and maybe Moore, DeGoey, ....
Supported by better talent in Sidebottom and Adams and Scharenberg

That's something but we need to keep bringing in talent
Who knows maybe Grundy will join the above (hello ruck coach....)

Good post. But you're wrong about Moore. No maybe when it comes to him... He will be a superstar. We've seen him now with a light frame, limited fitness and strength and crap delivery. This kid, in a year or 2, will be a bonafide superstar.

We better give him a 10 year deal, he's one to build the club around.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Good post. But you're wrong about Moore. No maybe when it comes to him... He will be a superstar. We've seen him now with a light frame, limited fitness and strength and crap delivery. This kid, in a year or 2, will be a bonafide superstar.

We better give him a 10 year deal, he's one to build the club around.

I think, am all but sure you're right about Moore.
But he still has to do it.
A sure he will

 

[TradeDraft]

Wheatly was right on 360.

We did not set out to be one but we turned into one.

That is a Team that Hit's Rock Bottom and Start Again

 

[TheSierBear]

Good post. But you're wrong about Moore. No maybe when it comes to him... He will be a superstar. We've seen him now with a light frame, limited fitness and strength and crap delivery. This kid, in a year or 2, will be a bonafide superstar.

We better give him a 10 year deal, he's one to build the club around.

Interesting you obviously rate him highly. Iin any order, the big five up and coming young forwards, who'd you have out of Moore, Daniher, Hogan, Lynch and Cameron, note all SEN commentators voted Lynch numero uno on this very subject.

For me, Moore is back in the pecking order for now, just because he doesn't get it enough as of yet, although I'd have him ahead of Daniher, but that can change quickly, and that can go both ways that change.

 

[Markfs]

evidently the afl has granted us development team status..... that's good news. We should improve from here...

 

[TradeDraft]

Interesting you obviously rate him highly. Iin any order, the big five up and coming young forwards, who'd you have out of Moore, Daniher, Hogan, Lynch and Cameron, note all SEN commentators voted Lynch numero uno on this very subject.

For me, Moore is back in the pecking order for now, just because he doesn't get it enough as of yet, although I'd have him ahead of Daniher, but that can change quickly, and that can go both ways that change.

Moore does not get Much of it because our Backline is Shit and our Midfield barley get's 1st Use of the Ball. At 19 he can do so much

 

[Mateyman]

What we gave up for aish is massive overs he's small, slow and can't kick.

Aish looks to be a spud at the moment but he's in his 3rd year in a terrible team at present so happy to give him some time. 2x2nd rounder for a pick 6 who's done well up untill being traded is not way overs at any rate.

We gave up more for Treloar then what Geelong gave up for danger.

That's because Geelong didn't realistically have any other trade currency once they had traded for Henderson, so Adelaide took the best offer they could get. This has very little to do with what he is actually worth. If you think Dangerfield is worth pick 9+change you need your head read. Geelong also didn't have any competition for Dangerfield's signature.

Trading away a future first means the club thinks there going to go pretty well

This is a pretty meaningless statement. Melbourne traded away this year's first rounder, they must've thought they were going to win the premiership or something.

 

[boxy99]

Aish looks to be a spud at the moment but he's in his 3rd year in a terrible team at present so happy to give him some time. 2x2nd rounder for a pick 6 who's done well up untill being traded is not way overs at any rate.

That's because Geelong didn't realistically have any other trade currency once they had traded for Henderson, so Adelaide took the best offer they could get. This has very little to do with what he is actually worth. If you think Dangerfield is worth pick 9+change you need your head read. Geelong also didn't have any competition for Dangerfield's signature.

This is a pretty meaningless statement. Melbourne traded away this year's first rounder, they must've thought they were going to win the premiership or something.

Once treloar nomination us there was no other competition.

What Melbourne did was trade away a first for a first they just identified a player they wanted so that argument doesn't stack up. If we thought we were going to be a bottom 4 side we don't do the trade.