Are We a Finals Side?

[Bee]

Have the Hawk fans replaced the Tiger fans infiltrating this board?
There seems to be a lot of interest from Hawthorn posters on here lately.

Where have all the Tigers gone?

 

[hawka_fan]

Someone posted a link to this thread on the hawks board, must be the reason.

 

[Beloved]

Oh god, another rival, whinging, copy thread thingo... Does it ever end?

 

[parrot]

Carlton lost the...

What you need to understand, is that the Hawks have been loading up with top-draft picks for about 8 years now, and as we saw in the last few games in season 2007, there are STILL some serious structural flaws in your list i.e. Franklin only forward line, a C-grade defense, a one-paced, one-dimensional midfield, and a no-plan-B coach. Over the past decade, The Hawks have received more top draft picks than anyone, so the only conclusion is poor player development and poor list development, and now Clarkson has hit the panic top-up-trading button e.g welcome 105+ kg of Dew. Even in this so called "boom era" for the Hawks, if you take the Tassie Government grant out of the equation, they had a loss in 2007. So, technically speaking the Hawks are currently commercially unviable. These are the realities. Jeff and Clarkson have put it on the public record, that the Hawks will win 2 flags over the next 4 years. But if you actually watch their last few games, you'll realise that in fact they are a long long way off. So, it's a bit of a classic Jeff PR scam. And haven't we all seen many of them in the past. lol.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Someone posted a link to this thread on the hawks board, must be the reason.

Read some of what was written, if the same crap was wrote about the tigers no wonder they came here to defend their team. Just as any good support of there afl team would.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I feel the love.
Can't wait for 2008.

ps. Tasmania is a lovely state for "importing" goods.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Someone posted a link to this thread on the hawks board, must be the reason.

Still it is interesting.

There seems to be some issues which are more emotive to certain supporters. This thread alone is not a bad one, asking the finals question. Even bottom sides have the right to wonder aloud about their prospects, that is what the offseason is for.

Tigers supporters seem to come out in numbers as part of a cellar dweller rivalry combined with our long term rivalry.

Carlton are seen as following the Hawks up the ladder, albeit a couple of years behind. Both went down, stocked up on draft picks to an extent and both are considered to have the youngest lists. I think this is where the Hawks interest lies, this youngest list title seems to have received way too much attention. The Hawks are seen as the youngest finals side, maybe set to be successful ahead of the usual age seen as the optimum for a premiership side. Another young side rising too fast would be seen as the competition for the Hawks. We are heading the same direction in the same era and we can see the 80s rivalry is about to be regenerated.

I think it has been largely a healthy rivalry between our clubs, one that I have fond memories of and a lot of respect for. I am hoping that the less than gracious BF element don't ruin that respectful rivalry ... on both sides.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

What you need to understand, is that the Hawks have been loading up with top-draft picks for about 8 years now, and as we saw in the last few games in season 2007, there are STILL some serious structural flaws in your list i.e. Franklin only forward line.

These are the realities. Jeff and Clarkson have put it on the public record, that the Hawks will win 2 flags over the next 4 years. But if you actually watch their last few games, you'll realise that in fact they are a long long way off. So, it's a bit of a classic Jeff PR scam. And haven't we all seen many of them in the past. lol.

FFS get it right, The Hawks didnt get the first picks for finishing last and winning the wooden spoon. We didnt win enough games in a season and got a few extra draft picks.

Correct me if im wrong but how many times has the blues been on the bottom? If your lot hadnt been penalized by the AFL for slalray cap breachs you would have more value to show dor your picks.

Our club didnt say the HAWKS will have two premierships in the next four years, they said we are aiming for!

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Still it is interesting.

There seems to be some issues which are more emotive to certain supporters. This thread alone is not a bad one, asking the finals question. Even bottom sides have the right to wonder aloud about their prospects, that is what the offseason is for.

Tigers supporters seem to come out in numbers as part of a cellar dweller rivalry combined with our long term rivalry.

Carlton are seen as following the Hawks up the ladder, albeit a couple of years behind. Both went down, stocked up on draft picks to an extent and both are considered to have the youngest lists. I think this is where the Hawks interest lies, this youngest list title seems to have received way too much attention. The Hawks are seen as the youngest finals side, maybe set to be successful ahead of the usual age seen as the optimum for a premiership side. Another young side rising too fast would be seen as the competition for the Hawks. We are heading the same direction in the same era and we can see the 80s rivalry is about to be regenerated.

I think it has been largely a healthy rivalry between our clubs, one that I have fond memories of and a lot of respect for. I am hoping that the less than gracious BF element don't ruin that respectful rivalry ... on both sides.

Well said..... and i for one agree

 

[parrot]

..The Hawks didnt get the first picks for finishing last ...

Bottom 4, same diff. The Hawks may have even surpassed the Saints at getting the greatest number of top-draft picks over the past 8 years. It was a HUGE number. Unprecedented. The question is, despite the massive draft handouts, the Hawks STILL have serious structural flaws on their list. They were even trying to trade away Roughead and Boyle to get even more top-draft picks! The problem is not draft picks, but B-grade list/player development, not helped by having a coach with limited capabilities i.e. no-Plan B, and a tendency to sook when things get tough.

 

[hawka_fan]

Franklin only forward line

What about my point before, we smashed you by 100 points without franklin. just so you understand. WITHOUT franklin. and he's our only forward apparently. just shows either a) you dont watch hawthorn play or b)carlton have a shocking defense. I'd say its both

a C-grade defense

Former AA CHb in croad, C.Brown, AA this year. Gilham young up and comer, same with Birchall.

Better then anything your defense has to show for it.

so the only conclusion is poor player development and poor list development

We have recruited some great youngsters and they have come along nicely.
How many 50 game players can kick winning goals in finals and play match winning games.

Lewis, franklin and roughead, 50 games each, all an important part of our team and matchwinners.
But they haven't been develpoed well
Make some sense and actually try to argue my points.
Also you think we had 8 years of draft picks?
We haven't finished last.
You've had 3 wooden spoons in 5 years.




EDIT - FFS we didnt try and trade Roughead!!!!!!! He is one of the most untradeable players on our list!

 

[Alpha1]

No we arent a finals side just yet maybe in 09 we will make the finals but not yet. We still have a lot of young bodies in there, yes Judd and co will help but one man wont get us to the finals.

 

[parrot]

..
Former AA CHb in croad, C.Brown, AA this year. Gilham young up and comer, same with Birchall..

My favourite Croad Moment. Brown is a good little player. Tough. The rest.....pass. Hey, and where's Zac? lol .

 

[hawka_fan]

My favourite Croad Moment. Brown is a good little player. Tough. The rest.....pass. Hey, and where's Zac? lol .

See you won't even argue my points, you just show me one clip of a player stuffing up. jeez thats never happened before

Setanta Ohailpin - nothing yet
Waite- will be good
Thornton - FB in worse defense in league, must be crap.

Croad = AA
Brown = AA

Judd is your only gun player, Fevola is if he gets his head right,
the rest......

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

A reminder to avoid disrespecting Carlton players here. I see the potential for overstepping the mark. An ongoing argument with one of our supporters does not change the fact that this is the Carlton board and all posts are privy to the board rules.

Feel free to get more vigorous on Bay 13.

 

[hawka_fan]

Ok I wont bag your players, but if he bags anymore of our players... I don't see any reason why I can't.

 

[parrot]

See you won't even argue my points, you just show me one clip of a player stuffing up...:

I think the point is you're missing the point. lol. I'm the first to admit our defence is currently our biggest weakness and needs improving, although we do finally have some impressive talent in the defensive half. But that's not the point. The point IS, that the Hawks have publically stated that they will win 2 flags over the next 4 years and yet still have serious structural flaws on their list despite an unprecedented number of AFL draft handouts, most notably their defence. Brown is a great small defender - one of the best in the AFL IMO. Croad is a C to B grader. Not tall, not fast, not that skillfull, usually overweight, just average. The rest aren't worthy of mention e.g. Zac,

 

[7zark7]

You are an absolute f****** wa**er! I don't care about red cards or anything.

Our list management off the rails? We have twice the talent you have.

Ineffective tactics? That is why we finsihed 5th.

Minus Franklin? We managed to beat you by 100 points without him. And btw he played the finals.

Roughead was not put up for trade! What the f*** are you talking about?

Kennet and Clarkson have a great relationship.

Geez you are delerious you Cartlon supporters.

Don't worry mate Hawthorn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carlton

Carlton are too young at the moment but will develop into a great team. The Hawks are already there.

Can I say that here? Last time I mentioned that Carlton might not win the next 14 premierships I got carded.

 

[Fat Tony]

Bottom 4, same diff. The Hawks may have even surpassed the Saints at getting the greatest number of top-draft picks over the past 8 years. It was a HUGE number. Unprecedented. The question is, despite the massive draft handouts, the Hawks STILL have serious structural flaws on their list. They were even trying to trade away Roughead and Boyle to get even more top-draft picks! The problem is not draft picks, but B-grade list/player development, not helped by having a coach with limited capabilities i.e. no-Plan B, and a tendency to sook when things get tough.

Structual flaws??? i didn't see any when we smashed u guys by 100 points this year. Sure we lost the last game to the Roos but that was most like due to the inevitable let down after the highly charged performance against the Crows.

What is important to remember about the Hawks is that we only failed to achieve a win against two side, sydney (we should have won the game at the MCG) and Freo at subi. The fact that we could beat sides like West coast and Geelong indicate that there is no structural problems, instead it highlights the issue of maintaining that level of performance throughout a season.

Also in regards to allegations that Clarksons is a sook and has no "plan B", prove it.

finally to answer the threads question, Carlton will probably become a finals side in 09 once a few of their younger players like Gibbs start to gain experience

 

[Bluebear]

Structual flaws??? i didn't see any when we smashed u guys by 100 points this year. Sure we lost the last game to the Roos but that was most like due to the inevitable let down after the highly charged performance against the Crows.

Why was it inevitable?
Lacking mental application down there?
Maybe if your boys played the ball instead of the man you might have done a bit better.

What is important to remember about the Hawks is that we only failed to achieve a win against two side, sydney (we should have won the game at the MCG) and Freo at subi. The fact that we could beat sides like West coast and Geelong indicate that there is no structural problems, instead it highlights the issue of maintaining that level of performance throughout a season.

So the FACT that we beat Port, the runners up...........means SFA........I wouldn't use this as evidence you have NO structural problems.
You still need 1 good tall defender (as indicated by your clubs annual attempts to lure Thornton) and a more consistent forward line.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ok I wont bag your players, but if he bags anymore of our players... I don't see any reason why I can't.

The reason is that you would be showing disrespect to our players on the Carlton board. He would be showing disrespect to Hawthorn players on the Carlton board. If he wrote the same thing over on the Hawthorn board, he is fair game to be infracted.

The answer is to be diplomatic and not get sucked into it on other team boards. Either ignore them or regenerate the argument elsewhere.

Cheers

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Bottom 4, same diff. The Hawks may have even surpassed the Saints at getting the greatest number of top-draft picks over the past 8 years. It was a HUGE number. Unprecedented. The question is, despite the massive draft handouts, the Hawks STILL have serious structural flaws on their list. They were even trying to trade away Roughead and Boyle to get even more top-draft picks! The problem is not draft picks, but B-grade list/player development, not helped by having a coach with limited capabilities i.e. no-Plan B, and a tendency to sook when things get tough.

Well that really depends on how you look at the situation Parrot (is the glass half full or half empty?)

The Hawks decided they pick something worthy for Boyle or Roughie and put the feeliers out on those two players, as they feel they could afford to lose one. We also have Mark williams, Buddy, (thorpe and Dowler both kkp goal kickers, yet to prove woth at afl level yet) and midfeild goal kickers in mitchell, young, lewis and sewell.

I dont rate our defence as stars, but it is very accountable and workman like and is effective. I think Croad (champ) , birchall, gilham, brown, osborne all do a fine job. Birchall will develope in to our next defensive star.

Once again our coach has room to develope and adapt, he has grown since the day he was appointed coach of the HFC.

But last time i checked this thread was more about Carlton than the hawks.

To be fair to your coach Brett Ratten (isnt it?), he hasn't even had one senior game yet, so we will take the wait and see approach! In saying that i like the way the 184 cm defender / midfeilder went about his game for the blues. So if the way is any inidaction on how he will coach, he and the team will be hard at.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_teams?tid1=103&tid2=108 look here for stats hawks verse blues.

In my view these are carltons great hopes;

Current proven players: Fevloa, Judd, Stevens,

theres still Hope: walker, cloke and bannister

Youngsters: Gibbs, kennedy, murphy, russell, waite, fisher

I havent included any 2007 draftees and they high picks so thats a nice sign. Time will tell, good luck in season 2008

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Can I say that here? Last time I mentioned that Carlton might not win the next 14 premierships I got carded.

Why do people make this stuff up?

Someone else called Gibbs shit. Another poster told him to enjoy his infraction. You then weighed in uninvited calling us communists. Might not have been much but then it was a 1 pointer from one of our mods. I would suggest that you interfering was unnecessary and having a shot at our board was disruptive.

Nothing to do with us winning the next 14 premierships. No wonder mods get so frustrated when people publicly lie about how and why they got infracted.

 

[hawka_fan]

I think the point is you're missing the point. lol. I'm the first to admit our defence is currently our biggest weakness and needs improving, although we do finally have some impressive talent in the defensive half. But that's not the point. The point IS, that the Hawks have publically stated that they will win 2 flags over the next 4 years and yet still have serious structural flaws on their list despite an unprecedented number of AFL draft handouts, most notably their defence. Brown is a great small defender - one of the best in the AFL IMO. Croad is a C to B grader. Not tall, not fast, not that skillfull, usually overweight, just average. The rest aren't worthy of mention e.g. Zac,

Our only structual flaw is our FB position, which Brown can handle well enough and Gilham will be groomed into.
Everything else is fine. Our ruck stocks are great with Bailey to come through.
We never said that we will win 2 flags in 4 years.

That is our aim.

We aim high instead of aiming for more priority picks

The reason is that you would be showing disrespect to our players on the Carlton board. He would be showing disrespect to Hawthorn players on the Carlton board. If he wrote the same thing over on the Hawthorn board, he is fair game to be infracted.

The answer is to be diplomatic and not get sucked into it on other team boards. Either ignore them or regenerate the argument elsewhere.

Cheers

No probs

 

[7zark7]

Why do people make this stuff up?

Someone else called Gibbs shit. Another poster told him to enjoy his infraction. You then weighed in uninvited calling us communists. Might not have been much but then it was a 1 pointer from one of our mods. I would suggest that you interfering was unnecessary and having a shot at our board was disruptive.

Nothing to do with us winning the next 14 premierships. No wonder mods get so frustrated when people publicly lie about how and why they got infracted.

You have a wicked memory mate