Analysis Are we better in 2018 than in 2015?

Are we better in 2018 than in 2015?

  • Yes

  • No


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Candiru

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Jan 27, 2018
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We made the GF unexpectedly in 2015 and although it's early days in 2018, there does seem to be a top four berth up for grabs.

Richmond are the reigning premiers and seem to have improved further - or at least held their ground. But after that, which teams are definitively better than WC? Maybe GWS on paper? Maybe the Swans if it all clicks? Maybe the Crows? Pre-season, I'd have had Geelong and Port as the other sides in the top six bracket but we've beaten both of them, admittedly in Perth.

So how does the 2018 group compare to the 2015 team that went to the GF?

This was our 2015 GF squad:

B: Wellingham Schofield Hurn
HB: Ellis McGovern Sheppard
C: Rosa Priddis Yeo
HF: Gaff Darling Cripps
F: LeCras Kennedy Hill
R: Naitanui Sheed Shuey
Int: Masten Sinclair Hutchings Butler
Emer: McGinnity Selwood Lycett

There's been significant turnover in three years.

Gone: Wellingham, Ellis, Rosa, Priddis, Hill, Sinclair, Butler, Selwood, McGinnity
Probably not best 22: Schofield, Hutchings
In: Duggan, Barrass, Redden, Jetta, Waterman, Ryan, Rioli, Venables, Cole, Ah Chee, Nelson - depending how you cast the best 22 or best 25.

One note on that - Rosa really didn't need to leave. He thought he'd be unable to get a game. That was silly. He should have stayed.

That aside, it's crazy to consider, but on paper we might actually be a better balanced, more dynamic team in 2018. Certainly some of those young players in the 2015 side - Sheed, Yeo, McGovern - have improved in the three years since, and the veterans who are still there haven't lost much. Kennedy and Hurn, for example, are still top-liners. LeCras fell off a cliff but seems to have found his mojo again. And I think some of the ins are clear upgrades on the guys who have left.

I guess the tricky part of the equation is to know exactly what we'll get from the current crop of kids who've played only a handful of games. Waterman, Ryan, Rioli, Venables and Cole have played fewer than 10 games each but look the goods so far. But how confident should we be about that? Are they 100% bankable yet? Maybe not. But I can't remember a group of kids all coming in at once and all looking as ready to go as these guys. When was the last time we had 5-6 guys (include Petruccelle if you like) with fewer than 10 games played, all close to being best 22, all with considerable upside? Gaff and Darling were walk-up starts in their debut seasons but other than that I can't think of a comparable situation.

It could still go to s**t by the end of 2018, but we might actually be in better shape than in 2015, particularly if those new faces keep tracking the way they have been. Who'd have thought it two months ago?

I guess there are two takeaways from that: 1) what went wrong in 2016-17? 2) it will be bloody disappointing if we lose Gaff, McGovern and/or Lycett to free agency when we are actually pretty well-placed. We've got two or three years where we could reasonably expect to challenge, while still improving. Basically until Kennedy retires. Losing the likes of Gaff and/or McGovern would interfere with that, big time. That will suck balls should it happen. Hopefully they see it that way too and stick around.
 
Last edited:
Dec 18, 2005
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No, not yet.

We beat every single other team in 2015, we had career best years from Hill and Cripps to help out Lecras and JJK who were already in top form. Down back we also had Wellingham and Shephard play career best years for us to cover the loss of Mackenzie. It was Priddis' best year, even those who despised him shut up for the most part as he chose great handball options and was generally quite damaging (better than his brownlow year).

Not impossible, but still so much more to see, I wouldn't call it better this year.
 

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kaII

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Sep 9, 2015
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The signs are there, mostly due to the injection of pace / flare. If we can rectify our tendency to bomb to congestion i50 we'll be playing a better brand of footy imo. Plus I don't think we were as dominant in the middle in 2015 as we are this year.
 

Karim Abdul Yeo

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Bombing it i50 is ok as long as it’s not all the time.you can’t always kick with precision because of many factors.sometimes you don’t have time or you don’t have the lead.as long as the bombing i50 is balanced, I’ll take that.every team does it at some stage.my concern is JK focused, we have other options who can take a grab.other than that sometimes situations ask for quick kick to inside 50 or you get run down.
 
Sep 23, 2007
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As ugly as it is, bombing the ball long into our forwardline is quite an effective tactic.

It reduces the potential for turnovers across half-forward, which is a very hard part of the ground to defend.

Also, it forces the opposition to flood numbers back and enable us to set up behind the ball, thus getting the game played in our F50.

With NN, Lycett and McGovern covering the exits, it makes it hard for the opposition to play down the line out of their defence.
 
Jul 14, 2014
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Very early days, but as of now I’m quietly more confident that the team that runs out will get the job done compared to the teams of 2015-2017. It was always ‘if X goes down who covers him?’ Before, and maybe it’s been through the upside we’re seeing from all the young guys coming through, but I feel our depth is a lot better than it was in years prior.

The new stadium plays into our hands to a degree, closer to the MCG in width, and travelling teams have to adjust accordingly to that while also playing in (generally) warmer temps than over east. I get the feeling that if we play well over here our structures don’t need as much adaption and change as they did in years prior due to the closer ground dimensions between Os and the MCG.

The short of it? If we can nab a double chance this year anything is possible. Let’s not take the lid off just yet though.
 

Wadsworth

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Jul 21, 2015
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As ugly as it is, bombing the ball long into our forwardline is quite an effective tactic.

It reduces the potential for turnovers across half-forward, which is a very hard part of the ground to defend.

Also, it forces the opposition to flood numbers back and enable us to set up behind the ball, thus getting the game played in our F50.

With NN, Lycett and McGovern covering the exits, it makes it hard for the opposition to play down the line out of their defence.

‘Bombing it long’ sounds better if you refer to it as ‘getting a quick forward entry’ or something like that. I suspect there is something in the game plan that calls for quick ball movement forward, but some of the long kicks to disadvantage are really frustrating.
 

Luuuc

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Jun 26, 2011
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It's round 7. Chill
Ditto. Too soon to tell. Early season form is fickle, and we've had a fairly soft draw.
I voted no for now, but the potential is there to be a better team if we stop losing a player per game to injury. No glaring weaknesses in this team atm.
3 weeks from now we'll have played the Tigers (at home) and Hawks (Etihad) and will have a good gauge on where we are.
 

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Eagleboy68

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Jun 11, 2015
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I think we are better placed now than in 2015.

We have more pace across the ground which is sorely needed at the mcg.
Our depth is better and we don't have liabilities in our side defensively.

Edit: I'm referring directly to priddis which it seems we STILL aren't allowed to discuss on the board.

We also have X factor which you need in finals.
 
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Dec 19, 2007
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The signs are there, mostly due to the injection of pace / flare. If we can rectify our tendency to bomb to congestion i50 we'll be playing a better brand of footy imo. Plus I don't think we were as dominant in the middle in 2015 as we are this year.
Exactly K! We are a much better side than 2015.Once we sort out the forward bomb we will be formidable.When that happens we will have a side that on paper is starting to compare to the last great Hawks teams.Cmon Mitchell get in the ear of our forwards coach.
 
Way to early in the season to tell.

But what I would say is that we are a much more balanced side in 2018 than 2015.

How well our kids hold up and improve will have a great deal to do with answering this question.
 
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dajesmac

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23 yes votes to 9. Surely the majority cannot already believe we're better than we were in 2015? I'm optimistic as * but we're seven rounds in and have only left Perth 2/7 games.

We're not playing as well as we were in 2015, but there's a good chance we will improve on how we're playing now. I think we're a top four chance. If we pull that off and get games into the kids, it'll be a ******* great year.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Deroesfromgero
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23 yes votes to 9. Surely the majority cannot already believe we're better than we were in 2015? I'm optimistic as **** but we're seven rounds in and have only left Perth 2/7 games.

We're not playing as well as we were in 2015, but there's a good chance we will improve on how we're playing now. I think we're a top four chance. If we pull that off and get games into the kids, it'll be a ******* great year.
I feel the game against collingwood is the crux to our season

Win that and we hopefully get our mcg hoodoo of our backs - and get some serious self belief going - its over 20 years since we beat them there - thats the sort of thing that gets a team mentally in the space where they believe they can beat anyone.

Lose and it will be hard.
 

dajesmac

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I feel the game against collingwood is the crux to our season

Win that and we hopefully get our mcg hoodoo of our backs - and get some serious self belief going - its over 20 years since we beat them there - thats the sort of thing that gets a team mentally in the space where they believe they can beat anyone.

Lose and it will be hard.

That would be pretty big considering they appear to be a half decent side this year.

I think the other thing we need to prove is that we can win with key players missing. Naitanui is an obvious one, but someone like Shuey too. If we knock off 1/2 of GWS and Richmond without Shuey playing I think the lid might just come off.
 
But what I would say is that we are a much more balanced side in 2108 than 2015
So something for my great grandkids to look forward to you time traveling showpony, but what about 2018 vs 2015?
 
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