Are we cursed?

[Hardas]

Aw man, you've given me another conundrum to think about.

I'm still struggling with how long is a piece of string & now this!!!

Two wins, two draws and twelve (yes, 12) losses in my lifetime... I definitely feel that panda's angst...but, mostly, I feel numb... no nerve endings left, I guess.

 

[magpie_marty]

Luck plays its part for certain, but if we had been better on the day those things would never have mattered.

We have had our share of misfortune for sure but we have also had chances which we failed to capitalize on.

The only 2 causes of misfortune in our GF's I have seen was '70 with Tuddy and the 79 bulls**t with Harmes.

The rest was somewhat within our control.

I am not sure if this term luck is real,It is what it is.
Greg Norman had a 6 stroke lead and lost to Faldo 5 shots.
Or if Larry Mize did not chip in during that play of was that Luck?
Bob Tway holed a bunker shot in 1986 again Luck?

Sumich missing a set shot for goal was that luck?
Milne and that evil bounce was that luck?

It's not luck it's life.
jonbe54

 

[Tarkyn_24]

LMAO.

**** Collingwood. Pricks

 

[DWil6]

4 losses in 5 years between 77-81 was seriously painful. If we took our chances in GF’s we’d be so far ahead in the Premiership race that it wouldn’t even be a contest. We may not be cursed, but you can’t deny when it comes to GF’s we aren’t very good!

 

[domus]

What screams cowardice to me is the constant whingeing about umpires, luck not going our way, the media ect, ect. Those with courage recognise their shortcomings and do something about it. Not bang on about blaming everything else except themselves. If we had of had a few GF stuff ups you might say it's luck. With Collingwood it's a trend.

Lose after being 44 pts up at half time in 1970, after being 27 points up at 3/4 time in 1977, after kicking the first 5 goals of the game in 1979 and in 2018. No other club comes even close in terms of stuff ups.

Stop using excuses, it is the realm of the loser, the fool and the coward.

More of the same pompous waffle. So brave and such a realist. I've seen us lose plenty of finals and grand finals when I've happily acknowledged we were beaten by a better side. You and others can lecture those of us who believe we have been on the losing end of some appallingly bad luck but you have not responded to my post where I listed 8 grand finals we have lost by margins under ten points or drawn. Each one of these games could have gone either way right up until the last minute. Your argument that it's all a matter of us not being good enough is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that the sides who drew with us or won by less than a kick were clearly our superior and more deserving of their win than us even though they were behind with minutes remaining in the grand final? Why weren't these superior teams leading us by comfortable margins? Did they plan to keep it close to the bone to make the game more exciting?

As far as having big leads fritted away, I have to laugh. On Saturday night we stormed home and had we won you (if you are consistent) would have been disgusted by the fact that we were 33 points down to begin with. Nothing but bad luck (it certainly wasn't good football by the Giants) prevented us from going into the record books for record finals comebacks but no- we hit the post and skim an elbow. If it was Carlton, the Lions, the Eagles or Richmond in finals gone by, they would have missed the post by five centimetres and missed that pointy elbow.

I am gutted by our latest exit, particularly given the pathetic effort by the Giants. No-one will ever convince me we are not an unlucky club, including Buckley who spouts the nonsense "You get what you deserve" If that is true then clearly we deserve injuries to key players every year and we deserve to lose finals and grand finals by less than a kick. I suppose Shaz deserves four knee reconstructions and we deserve out heartache. Does Bucks apply that same philosophy to every day life? You get cancer, you dive into a pool and break your neck, you win tattslotto when you already live a comfortable life….while the bloke down the street trying to keep his head above water gets retrenched?

You get what you deserve. What utter tosh.

I don't know any Collingwood fan who doesn't know in their heart of hearts when we have been beaten by a clearly better team. When Geelong and Richmond pumped us in GF's I happily congratulated the opposition fans around me even though it hurt. It's those games when you know deep in your gut, that we lost what was within our grasp due to one moment-a poor ump decision, a terrible bounce which turned what was a golden chance to score into an attacking move for your opponent or a piece of play where an opposition player wins the game with a play he couldn't replicate again. All of these moments are not a result of our ineptitude but a matter of something entirely out of our control which breaks our hearts.

This has happened to us too many times.

 

[Help My Club]

Richmond 2/3

The true cost of wasted opportunities is becoming more stark.

 

[PieLebo87]

Richmond 2/3

The true cost of wasted opportunities is becoming more stark.

In a 20 year stretch where we’ve played off in 5 Grand Finals, played off in 9 Prelims and won 1 flag, the Tigers have 2 flags in 3 years. They clearly WEREN’T the better side in that 20 year period yet they’ve got 1 more flag than we do.

No, we’re not cursed

 

[domus]

Good post. There was a toughness and camaraderie about the Brisbane team that I’ve never seen before or since. They were bulletproof. They gave the impression of being unstoppable. GWS bullied us in that game in July, and other teams may have watched that and learned that we can be knocked around the ball and our players need to do the same back and meet/exceed their level of aggression. I don’t have a clue how you train that though if it’s not in their nature. John ‘The Hitman’ Noble doesn’t quite work.

They didn't look bullet proof with ten minutes remaining in the 2002 grand final against a team of battlers who just had a go. I think we tend to overhype teams when we look back to the past. Human nature.

 

[Help My Club]

In a 20 year stretch where we’ve played off in 5 Grand Finals, played off in 9 Prelims and won 1 flag, the Tigers have 2 flags in 3 years. They clearly WEREN’T the better side in that 20 year period yet they’ve got 1 more flag than we do.

No, we’re not cursed

And there it is mate. Whatever the club has being doing over the past 20 odd years (in a 16 and then 18 team competition), one flag is not a satisfactory nor acceptable return. Richmond's 2/3 is a "kick in the guts" reminder that it is completely unacceptable, or should be.

So how many more years and how much more evidence is required before material change is considered and then effected? And the obvious extension to this is - are we/you confident that the current regime at Collingwood, from top to bottom, are capable of effecting/implementing such change?

Or, the counter argument is that it is simply continued bad luck as a result of umpires, injuries, suspensions etc. etc. etc.

 

[jmac70]

And there it is mate. Whatever the club has being doing over the past 20 odd years (in a 16 and then 18 team competition), one flag is not a satisfactory nor acceptable return. Richmond's 2/3 is a "kick in the guts" reminder that it is completely unacceptable, or should be.

So how many more years and how much more evidence is required before material change is considered and then effected? And the obvious extension to this is - are we/you confident that the current regime at Collingwood, from top to bottom, are capable of effecting/implementing such change?

Or, the counter argument is that it is simply continued bad luck as a result of umpires, injuries, suspensions etc. etc. etc.

There has been material change during that period. What more could we have done?

 

[PieLebo87]

And there it is mate. Whatever the club has being doing over the past 20 odd years (in a 16 and then 18 team competition), one flag is not a satisfactory nor acceptable return. Richmond's 2/3 is a "kick in the guts" reminder that it is completely unacceptable, or should be.

So how many more years and how much more evidence is required before material change is considered and then effected? And the obvious extension to this is - are we/you confident that the current regime at Collingwood, from top to bottom, are capable of effecting/implementing such change?

Or, the counter argument is that it is simply continued bad luck as a result of umpires, injuries, suspensions etc. etc. etc.

What more can a club do when it’s getting itself into a position of playing off in 9 Prelims and 5 Grand Finals in 18 years?

 

[jonbe54]

I am not sure if this term luck is real,It is what it is.
Greg Norman had a 6 stroke lead and lost to Faldo 5 shots.
Or if Larry Mize did not chip in during that play of was that Luck?
Bob Tway holed a bunker shot in 1986 again Luck?

Sumich missing a set shot for goal was that luck?
Milne and that evil bounce was that luck?

It's not luck it's life.
jonbe54

There is such a thing as good and bad fortune - living in the house that an airliner crashes into for instance - or living one block over.

But in general we should all take ownership that we are the masters of our own fate and behave accordingly.

 

[jonbe54]

And there it is mate. Whatever the club has being doing over the past 20 odd years (in a 16 and then 18 team competition), one flag is not a satisfactory nor acceptable return. Richmond's 2/3 is a "kick in the guts" reminder that it is completely unacceptable, or should be.

So how many more years and how much more evidence is required before material change is considered and then effected? And the obvious extension to this is - are we/you confident that the current regime at Collingwood, from top to bottom, are capable of effecting/implementing such change?

Or, the counter argument is that it is simply continued bad luck as a result of umpires, injuries, suspensions etc. etc. etc.

Your grasp of sheer numbers and the applicable odds when combined with compromised drafts and over favourable conditions for expansion clubs is woefully inadequate.

1 premiership in 20 years amongst 17 other competitors by itself without any other factors is at the low end of satisfactory - or what? Did you imagine this competition is a level playing field?

If so you need to join the real world.

 

[jonbe54]

There has been material change during that period. What more could we have done?

Lost cause mate some people just want to watch the world burn.

 

[Toecrusher]

It really comes down to getting everything possible right, in every area.

Would we go and recruit Faz again? Absolutely not, yet there would be club members with a soft spot for him.
Just as Faz would be a mistake, the soft spot some hold for Beamsy wasn't justified in the eyes of a huge number of supporters.

Just as Hawthorn is ruthless with their list management, we'll never win premierships until we start getting smarter and more ruthless. We needed a key forward and still do, instead we got a hack with a expired use by date (sorry Beamsy, I hope 2020 proves me wrong).

Smart decisions in recruiting is a must.

 

[Help My Club]

There has been material change during that period. What more could we have done?

I'm talking culturally - we are the biggest/best/most hated/side by side/us against them mindsets. That hasn't changed in the slightest and I believe that has had a profound negative impact on this club in an ever evolving competition. You can choose to disagree and that is absolutely your right - I make no judgements there and I would hope you would reciprocate.

But the reality is we are certainly no longer the most successful in terms of ultimate on field performance and haven't been for a long time. We may still be the biggest and most financial. Personally I'd rather the club be lower down in the money stakes and higher up in the flag stakes. We are still the only club to have a past champion player as senior coach (no personal disrespect to Buckley) and after some 9 years, no ultimate return.

What more could we have done? Well I suspect a complete revamping of the club would not sit well with the bulk of supporters so I will hold back at the moment on what that might look like.

So do you feel that our 1/20 vs Richmond's 2/3 is simply down to bad luck in the form of umpires, injuries, suspensions etc. etc. etc? Do you think that this club could not have learned or adopted some of the processes of recent successful clubs such as Hawthorn, Geelong and now Richmond? Would you ever acknowledge that these clubs are better managed than Collingwood in the modern football environment? Or again is it simply a bad luck issue, time after time after time?

 

[jmac70]

I'm talking culturally - we are the biggest/best/most hated/side by side/us against them mindsets. That hasn't changed in the slightest and I believe that has had a profound negative impact on this club in an ever evolving competition. You can choose to disagree and that is absolutely your right - I make no judgements there and I would hope you would reciprocate.

But the reality is we are certainly no longer the most successful in terms of ultimate on field performance and haven't been for a long time. We may still be the biggest and most financial. Personally I'd rather the club be lower down in the money stakes and higher up in the flag stakes. We are still the only club to have a past champion player as senior coach (no personal disrespect to Buckley) and after some 9 years, no ultimate return.

What more could we have done? Well I suspect a complete revamping of the club would not sit well with the bulk of supporters so I will hold back at the moment on what that might look like.

So do you feel that our 1/20 vs Richmond's 2/3 is simply down to bad luck in the form of umpires, injuries, suspensions etc. etc. etc? Do you think that this club could not have learned or adopted some of the processes of recent successful clubs such as Hawthorn, Geelong and now Richmond? Would you ever acknowledge that these clubs are better managed than Collingwood in the modern football environment? Or again is it simply a bad luck issue, time after time after time?

Could you please tell us what we should have done differently?

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Could you please tell us what we should have done differently?

Dafuq? You can't think of anything yourself? Even with hindsight?

 

[Help My Club]

Your grasp of sheer numbers and the applicable odds when combined with compromised drafts and over favourable conditions for expansion clubs is woefully inadequate.

1 premiership in 20 years amongst 17 other competitors by itself without any other factors is at the low end of satisfactory - or what? Did you imagine this competition is a level playing field?

If so you need to join the real world.

Oh sorry. You mean the real world where other Victorian based clubs such as Hawthorn have won 4, Geelong 3 and now Richmond 2? Is that the same world of compromised drafts, overly favourable conditions for expansion clubs that you're referring to? Just checking.

 

[Help My Club]

Could you please tell us what we should have done differently?

In all sincerity I will but you aint gonna like it.

Can you give me till tomorrow because I'm starving and need to eat. Till then my fellow Pies supporter.

 

[Help My Club]

But JMac

If you've already eaten and have the time, I'd love to hear what material change has been implemented that has bettered the club, particularly in terms of ultimate on field success. Cheers!

 

[jmac70]

In all sincerity I will but you aint gonna like it.

Can you give me till tomorrow because I'm starving and need to eat. Till then my fellow Pies supporter.

Sure thing. Let me give you a question to ponder while you eat.
Was recruiting Malthouse the right move?

 

[Visions]

Could you please tell us what we should have done differently?

Better recruiting for starters. Many examples over recent times.

Not botching the Tom Lynch deal last year would have helped.

 

[Help My Club]

Sure thing. Let me give you a question to ponder while you eat.
Was recruiting Malthouse the right move?

I think so but let's touch base tomorrow. That answer needs further explanation and context and there is alot more to this discussion than Malthouse vs Buckley of course.

Now I gotta eat. Chou Chou!

 

[domus]

There is such a thing as good and bad fortune - living in the house that an airliner crashes into for instance - or living one block over.

But in general we should all take ownership that we are the masters of our own fate and behave accordingly.

If that helps you to sleep better at night, believe it by all means. I think all we can do is control the way we respond to what fate brings us.