Rumour Are we going to lose Brett Ratten?

pebblesofsand

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Just on coaches (and coaching) does anyone else find it intriguing that the supposedly universally recognised best coach in the league, is sitting on a 5 wins 6 losses which is exactly the same as Richo.

And with a better list and less injuries.
 

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Mowman

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Just on coaches (and coaching) does anyone else find it intriguing that the supposedly universally recognised best coach in the league, is sitting on a 5 wins 6 losses which is exactly the same as Richo.

And with a better list and less injuries.
You dont think 4 flags since 2008 gives him a few credits in the bank
 

triggering bro

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Just on coaches (and coaching) does anyone else find it intriguing that the supposedly universally recognised best coach in the league, is sitting on a 5 wins 6 losses which is exactly the same as Richo.

And with a better list and less injuries.
Mitchell & Wingard fairly big injuries. I actually think they are about where they should be. Blokes like Burgoyne, Stratton & Roughy are at the back end of their careers. They are in rebuild mode & still remain competitive. They also finished the home & away season in the top 4 last year. Massive overachievement considering their list IMO.
 

mightymalaka

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Just on coaches (and coaching) does anyone else find it intriguing that the supposedly universally recognised best coach in the league, is sitting on a 5 wins 6 losses which is exactly the same as Richo.

And with a better list and less injuries.
Um cough cough Bullsh!t!
This theory that Hawthorn have a great list is just an old furphy! It's not 2015 anymore!
What he did last year to get them a double chance with that side proves to me the man is still at the top of his game!
For all the crap that is spewed out about how rubbish our list supposedly is, it's still better than Hawthorns currently!
They are at the beginning of a rebuild and he has still got them being competitive!
 

pebblesofsand

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You dont think 4 flags since 2008 gives him a few credits in the bank
No - irrelevant to todays outputs.

Personally I think he has had a slightly stronger list to work with this year (even before injuries) than Richo and therefore has to be considered to have underachieved.

I suppose the other option is that Richo has overachieved but I didn't want to mention that.
 

pebblesofsand

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Um cough cough Bullsh!t!
This theory that Hawthorn have a great list is just an old furphy! It's not 2015 anymore!
What he did last year to get them a double chance with that side proves to me the man is still at the top of his game!
For all the crap that is spewed out about how rubbish our list supposedly is, it's still better than Hawthorns currently!
They are at the beginning of a rebuild and he has still got them being competitive!
Yep they have an ordinary list but I think once you take injuries into account ours is worse - much worse so either Clarko has underachieved or Richo has overachieved this year.

As for the beginning of a rebuild - I'm not sure that picking up Wingard, Scully etc indicates a team that believes its in full rebuild mode. That said I reckon they might be next year especially after they lose Roughead, Burgoyne and maybe Frawley.

Not sure about the wisdom of signing Wingard on a 5 year $800k contract especially given his history of ongoing soft tissue injuries - and now has had two hammies and calf injury so far this season. (jeez - and we cop it for signing Hannebery)
 

Mowman

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No - irrelevant to todays outputs.

Personally I think he has had a slightly stronger list to work with this year (even before injuries) than Richo and therefore has to be considered to have underachieved.

I suppose the other option is that Richo has overachieved but I didn't want to mention that.
Hawks top 4 last year that was a huge over achievement imo I dont think anyone but Clarcko could've done that.
Each to their but i know who i would have if i had choice to coach the Saints
 

StCicatriz

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Is the hawks list seen as better than ours because they develop it and therefore perform better

Or is it because we don't and are therefore continually poor?

Perhaps hawthorn is seen as better because clarko and the club are just better.

Maybe if richo was better than clarko he'd also have taken a club to the top 4 recently.
 

plugger66

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Mitchell & Wingard fairly big injuries. I actually think they are about where they should be. Blokes like Burgoyne, Stratton & Roughy are at the back end of their careers. They are in rebuild mode & still remain competitive. They also finished the home & away season in the top 4 last year. Massive overachievement considering their list IMO.
All true but his point is this year only. Everyone knows he is best coach in the afl so that’s not in question. Proves if you don’t have the cattle sometimes you can’t fix it.
 

Mikka84

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Just on coaches (and coaching) does anyone else find it intriguing that the supposedly universally recognised best coach in the league, is sitting on a 5 wins 6 losses which is exactly the same as Richo.

And with a better list and less injuries.
He’s also won 4 flags, the side is debatable a better list, his best player has a broken leg and they made top 4 last year.
 

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plugger66

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He’s also won 4 flags, the side is debatable a better list, his best player has a broken leg and they made top 4 last year.
I’m unsure anyone is actually reading what he posted. Pretty sure pebbles knows his record. I reckon their list is slightly better when looking who has been available all year.
 

Mikka84

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All true but his point is this year only. Everyone knows he is best coach in the afl so that’s not in question. Proves if you don’t have the cattle sometimes you can’t fix it.
Richo has had some very good players go through his list and more importantly time to build a list. This hasn’t happened and we’ve stagnated. We need more than coaching changes that I agree. I don’t blame Richo for anything, but he has to be included as part of the problem.
 

gringo2011

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I think its a reset with the new coach, we also have been a bit unlucky with Robbo - Carlisle - Steven & Hannebury that would hurt most sides
I also strongly believe we need to have a good look at our development program

The only thing about development is that I can't see any player that just looks like a gun except for Marshall and probably Gresham still and Battle looks the goods. I remember hearing Joey on the radio when we drafted Jack Steven saying "watch this kid we picked up, he'll be the next Robert Harvey"... he was talking Jack Steven. Cripps was training at Carlton and the buzz started before he'd kicked a ball. We just never seem to uncover kids who just explode into greatness, we seem to have them take 4 years to play and handful of games then delist them.

Most development is basically skills training, match sim, VFL, senior experience and perhaps trying to iron out deficiencies. I'm not sure it's the difference between a spud and a champion myself. Perhaps having senior experience around kids shields them and builds confidence though.
 

gringo2011

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Richo has had some very good players go through his list and more importantly time to build a list. This hasn’t happened and we’ve stagnated. We need more than coaching changes that I agree. I don’t blame Richo for anything, but he has to be included as part of the problem.

Nathan Burke reckons we wouldn't let him have players he wanted.
 

Mikka84

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I’m unsure anyone is actually reading what he posted. Pretty sure pebbles knows his record. I reckon their list is slightly better when looking who has been available all year.
I don’t really think so. They have a very weak bottom 6. And their top players have been injured as well.
 

gringo2011

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You dont think 4 flags since 2008 gives him a few credits in the bank

It does for sure and that's why he's under no pressure. I still think Richo has had absolute poo to work with. I can see a huge turn around with any new coach realistically. We will be better if we get Hanners, Stuv and Carlisle back in the side but doubt we shoot up the ladder unless all our okay talent makes a miraculous jump in quality at the same time.

Richo's had a good run at it and he should move on but he's been sent to the Melbourne cup on a donkey.
 

plugger66

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Richo has had some very good players go through his list and more importantly time to build a list. This hasn’t happened and we’ve stagnated. We need more than coaching changes that I agree. I don’t blame Richo for anything, but he has to be included as part of the problem.
Well I wouldn’t be blaming anyone for paddy apart from recruiters. Bit early for coff and Clark. The only other top 10 was billings. Not sure he has reached full potential. We haven’t had great picks after those.
 

Mowman

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Richo has had some very good players go through his list and more importantly time to build a list. This hasn’t happened and we’ve stagnated. We need more than coaching changes that I agree. I don’t blame Richo for anything, but he has to be included as part of the problem.
He is the number 1 man and huge part of the problem imo.
6th year and struggle to see anything of significance that he has brought to the table
 

plugger66

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I don’t really think so. They have a very weak bottom 6. And their top players have been injured as well.
They have had injuries but nothing like us. Not sure our bottom 6 available are to flash.
 

gringo2011

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He’s also won 4 flags, the side is debatable a better list, his best player has a broken leg and they made top 4 last year.

Their side is much better than ours even injured. We go out desperate to win every game while Clarko might be developing for an assault next year or what ever. Our list would be nearly the worst side we have put up since the early 80s with our outs and probably only GC looks worse.
 

Mowman

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Well then Richo isn’t strong enough. I’ve never seen a strong coach or ceo let anyone dictate to them. Live by the sword and die by it.
Spot on
Have said the same thing myself about that
 

gringo2011

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He is the number 1 man and huge part of the problem imo.
6th year and struggle to see anything of significance that he has brought to the table

I agree, he's done nothing but it's not in isolation, the whole club has been pretty badly mismanaged. We took an eye of the footy department and had no real interest in anything but letting it run it's self with the belief that it was improving without evidence, we left them alone as long as they didn't ask for anything.
 
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