Are we in strife?

Passmore

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May 22, 2001
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Everyone is saying "Footy will never be the same", including Higgins. What exactly is meant by that I am not clear.
If all clubs are intact, then what?
I’ve been wondering about that. You could argue that footy has “never been the same” since the VFL started introducing new teams in 1910.

Player payments? The amount of hangers on grifting a living from the game who do SFA?


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shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
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Just thank christ we aren't like a few others who are already in that amount of debt.
Absolutely.

Thanks God we paid that debt off.

The admin since 2008 have saved the club twice IMO.
100%. I hate the Tassie games (especially them increasing) but as of today they have potentially saved us. Us being in better condition than many other clubs doesn't make us bullet proof - but it does make it basically impossible for head office to cut us loose. They'll need to treat all those struggling the same and we are in a much better space than several other clubs that won't be brought up in the media today.
 

The acurate one

Club Legend
Jan 23, 2019
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It was mentioned on Footy Classified tonight that some Clubs may have to merge next year. This was only speculation but
it indicates that it is being considered in some quarters.
She would know, I can see us sitting around thinking.... fu**, let's ring Caro and tell her we may have to merge.

Did anyone catch the breakdown of AFL finances on Talking Footy?

Annual distribution to Clubs was $315m, AFL administration was $149m.

What an absolute disgrace.

I noticed Gil’s salary is dropping from $60k per week to $50k, how will he survive? All whilst telling the players they should be making 79% cuts.

The AFL doesn’t deserve to survive, they have pissed this away like Nauru did with their phosphate wealth.

Surely you're shitting me about Nauru?
 

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SMaturin

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 27, 2010
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I’ve been wondering about that. You could argue that footy has “never been the same” since the VFL started introducing new teams in 1910.

Player payments? The amount of hangers on grifting a living from the game who do SFA?


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I’m optimistic that it will mean a return to old school tribalism and historic relevance with a fraction of the post modern corporate-pr wank.
Could be the saviour of the game.
 

The acurate one

Club Legend
Jan 23, 2019
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I think we may see changes in the future and I hope for the first time this wake up call for the perceived weaker clubs has them band together to either A) get more funds due to allowing the competition favourites take the cream of the fixture. B) Push hard for equalisation through the fixture. Who can recall the 70K plus that attended the Dogs V North back in 98. That should have been nurtured not dismissed.

The AFL has overblown its value and we've suffered, anyone with any marketing experience would tell you brand exposure equals growth, we've been hidden away for far to long.

Enough is enough. If the tele rights aint worth the current deal in an equal sporting world, cut your cloth to suit- ffs it aint that difficult.
 

Tectonic

Club Legend
Jul 11, 2017
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The players are flat out laughable.

How noble of them.

Their contracts start in October, they get paid the 27th of every month. So they've been paid 100% wages for Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March.

They essentially get front paid during pre-season, as club's don't recieve revenue from the AFL until the TV revenue comes in.

So they have already been paid 50% of their yearly contracts already and are proposing a 50% pay cut for just April/May despite sitting at home and the game recieving basically no revenue for the year yet?! :drunk::drunk:.

They should be stood down like the rest of staff with no pay. Given they have received 50% of their contracts already, for the entirety of the rest of the year in my opinion given the destruction of revenue for the game.

The salary cap should be cut in half next year to compensate clubs for the fact the players have been overpaid for 2020.


Hopefully this results in a shift in the next CBA, to scalable pay respective of when clubs receive their revenue.

#perspective
 

the big lebowski

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Oct 4, 2006
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I’ve been wondering about that. You could argue that footy has “never been the same” since the VFL started introducing new teams in 1910.

Player payments? The amount of hangers on grifting a living from the game who do SFA?


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I think the footy industry itself will reduce in size as the competition works tompay back the debt that this year will see it rack up. Footy depts will take years to get back to what they were. The key thing is that people will still want football and 18 teams bring in the most tv dollars. Gold coast and gws will survive because of this. So will the smaller vic clubs.

No way they would replace an existing team with a new team. Tassie will be pushed back until probably 2030.
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
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If you think, in a situation where the number of teams might be reduced, that they’ll consider much beyond the projected financial contributions and/or costs, then I think you might want to think again.

They might use history to justify or explain keeping Melbourne in the league, for example, but it won’t be a reason.

I can see them forcing mergers between us, Dogs, Saints, and GoDees, or saying “We’re only accepting 2 licenses, sort it out,” leaving us to enter into discussions or die.
Things get bad enough anything is possible but they'd be mad to kill off sources of revenue right now as things stand. We and all of those teams contribute to the coffers - in spite of the rhetoric about being on AFL support. Gold Coast & GWS are a massive drain to the AFL system right now.

Naaaaaaaaaah, no way, PR backlash would be lethal, just when they need to attract fans back bigly.
Political and community suicide for mine. Not saying it can't get to that if things go on long enough, but the idea that the AFL will just be able to decide how many licences there are is ridiculous. They would get carved to pieces by the community and Gov.

I think the footy industry itself will reduce in size as the competition works tompay back the debt that this year will see it rack up. Footy depts will take years to get back to what they were. The key thing is that people will still want football and 18 teams bring in the most tv dollars. Gold coast and gws will survive because of this. So will the smaller vic clubs.

No way they would replace an existing team with a new team. Tassie will be pushed back until probably 2030.
This idea that 18 teams bring in the most dollars is a fallacy. The TV networks are not paying significantly more to have GWS & GC in the comp today. In fact, I'd be amazed if the increase in TV money in any way comes close to the net cost of these clubs today. You're talking at least $70-80M minimum to support them each year. No way they are bringing in that in extra TV $$$ today. In 50 years... maybe, if they survive that long. They are a massive net drain on AFL finances, the networks and the other teams. I personally think we would have got more in the last deal if we hadn't forced the TV networks to show these teams for a perceived long term payback.
 

Kimbo

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 14, 2002
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Everyone is saying "Footy will never be the same", including Higgins. What exactly is meant by that I am not clear.
If all clubs are intact, then what?
Part of the 'new world order' is recognising that there won't be 'order.' Not being clear will be the order (sorry) of the day. Dealing with uncertainty and emergence and being resilient and adaptable in the face of that uncertainty, 'chaos' and emergence. We can't, for example, even assume all clubs will be intact. (I'd be betting they won't, along with many, many non-football related businesses, with some folding that may shock us.)

I’ve been wondering about that. You could argue that footy has “never been the same” since the VFL started introducing new teams in 1910.

Player payments? The amount of hangers on grifting a living from the game who do SFA?
Absolutamente! Nothing is more certain than change. It's changed before, it'll change again.

Albeit, this worldwide pandemic is HUGE, and to expect it not to change the landscape of the AFL is as fanciful as the AFL thinking they'd have an AFL season this year.

In the parlous economic situation we'll face post-pandemic (and during it) to assume our economy can support an AFL industry as 'fat' as the one we've had, is ludicrous. It'll be a fraction of the size. Broadcasters won't have money, fans won't have money, the AFL and the clubs that survive won't have money... at least not at the same levels as we've had. Do they go back to 12 teams, with a severe reduction in the number of Victorian teams (2 WA, 2 SA, 1 NSW, 7 VIC, for example) or, temporarily, revert to state leagues? We really don't know how bad it's going to get.

I’m optimistic that it will mean a return to old school tribalism and historic relevance with a fraction of the post modern corporate-pr wank.
Could be the saviour of the game.
Yes, but where will we be without your post modern wanky write ups? :p But seriously, yeah, nothing is off the table.
 

Kimbo

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 14, 2002
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Things get bad enough anything is possible but they'd be mad to kill off sources of revenue right now as things stand. We and all of those teams contribute to the coffers - in spite of the rhetoric about being on AFL support. Gold Coast & GWS are a massive drain to the AFL system right now.

Political and community suicide for mine. Not saying it can't get to that if things go on long enough, but the idea that the AFL will just be able to decide how many licences there are is ridiculous. They would get carved to pieces by the community and Gov.

This idea that 18 teams bring in the most dollars is a fallacy. The TV networks are not paying significantly more to have GWS & GC in the comp today. In fact, I'd be amazed if the increase in TV money in any way comes close to the net cost of these clubs today. You're talking at least $70-80M minimum to support them each year. No way they are bringing in that in extra TV $$$ today. In 50 years... maybe, if they survive that long. They are a massive net drain on AFL finances, the networks and the other teams. I personally think we would have got more in the last deal if we hadn't forced the TV networks to show these teams for a perceived long term payback.
They aren't going to act until their hand is forced, so they're not doing anything just yet. And, yeah, if we're seen to be an economic asset, and they can afford us, that'll be a factor. I'm saying that 'last in, first out' won't necessarily be a factor. I can imagine, however, the AFL treating this as an opportunity to save face on Gold Coast.
 

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Long Live the King

Club Legend
Feb 24, 2009
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For mine if this blows over I reckon the AFL will need to freeze significant spend whilst building a sinking fund so big it future proofs itself as best as possible.
The AFL and AFLPA will need to agree concessions such as salary caps in the lead up to the next media rights deal to build that fund. Im sure the post mortem / autopsy will be detailed and lengthy
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
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They aren't going to act until their hand is forced, so they're not doing anything just yet. And, yeah, if we're seen to be an economic asset, and they can afford us, that'll be a factor. I'm saying that 'last in, first out' won't necessarily be a factor. I can imagine, however, the AFL treating this as an opportunity to save face on Gold Coast.
We make them money. I know that's not the narrative but that's the reality. Every game we, Dogs, St K, Melbourne play against interstate teams - I'm not going to do the numbers but I'd hazard a guess we've played these teams 50% more than the other big Melbourne clubs over the last 2 decades. That leaves the AFL free to double up big clubs and creates market shortage / demand. Same reason WC can charge what they like and have a waiting list for years... None of that happens if Collingwood have to play in front of 25k more often.
 

Asifhe Givashe

Senior List
Jan 14, 2020
202
337
AFL Club
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Part of the 'new world order' is recognising that there won't be 'order.' Not being clear will be the order (sorry) of the day. Dealing with uncertainty and emergence and being resilient and adaptable in the face of that uncertainty, 'chaos' and emergence. We can't, for example, even assume all clubs will be intact. (I'd be betting they won't, along with many, many non-football related businesses, with some folding that may shock us.)


Absolutamente! Nothing is more certain than change. It's changed before, it'll change again.

Albeit, this worldwide pandemic is HUGE, and to expect it not to change the landscape of the AFL is as fanciful as the AFL thinking they'd have an AFL season this year.

In the parlous economic situation we'll face post-pandemic (and during it) to assume our economy can support an AFL industry as 'fat' as the one we've had, is ludicrous. It'll be a fraction of the size. Broadcasters won't have money, fans won't have money, the AFL and the clubs that survive won't have money... at least not at the same levels as we've had. Do they go back to 12 teams, with a severe reduction in the number of Victorian teams (2 WA, 2 SA, 1 NSW, 7 VIC, for example) or, temporarily, revert to state leagues? We really don't know how bad it's going to get.


Yes, but where will we be without your post modern wanky write ups? :p But seriously, yeah, nothing is off the table.
You need to lay off the Narcos, Pablo.
 

Horace

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Dec 2, 2001
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Allow for the lack of context though mate. He could just as easily be dropping hints for AFL assistance.
Yeah, I don't think his comments, or what I saw of them are all that bad. Are we, here, not also a little worried about our club?

I think Ben articulated that very well. I interpret his comments as along the lines of "Yes we will have to go back into some debt to get through but that's not the main concern. The main concern is to come out the other end, (whenever that may be) and then we go back to work on all fronts."

My view is that the AFL will not allow any club to go under, because they need 18 clubs to get the best possible TV Rights, when we are again back playing football. Also I would be amazed if the AFL, being a business, does not get some assistance from either or both Federal/State Governments, and along with the ability of the AFL to either borrow against Marvel Stadium, or use Marvel as security to guarantee individual clubs, find a way to get through this.

Bear in mind it is not so long ago that the State Government provided various levels of funds to assist Geelong build grandstands. Surely the survival of a club or clubs ranks above that in priority, so politically it would not be a good move if they don't come to the party here, unless it is beyond their financial resources.

In my opinion, the survival of football codes, though ranking way below the importance of physical health, does have a much greater significance from a mental health perspective.
 

Asifhe Givashe

Senior List
Jan 14, 2020
202
337
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Surely you're shitting me about Nauru?
Naturally, I wouldn’t think of sprouting anything but facts given you are the accurate one. Nauru once had the 2nd highest GDP per capita behind Saudi. They, like the AFL pissed all their money up the wall on Rolls’, private jets and West End musicals (the AFL equivalent of AFLX). Not only did they squander their phosphate wealth, they also mined the shit out of the Island leaving it unusable for future farming.

As a result they are on Australia’s teet housing our refugees for $40m a year.
 

Passmore

Brownlow Medallist
May 22, 2001
10,388
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The Gasometer Wing
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Yeah, I don't think his comments, or what I saw of them are all that bad. Are we, here, not also a little worried about our club?

I think Ben articulated that very well. I interpret his comments as along the lines of "Yes we will have to go back into some debt to get through but that's not the main concern. The main concern is to come out the other end, (whenever that may be) and then we go back to work on all fronts."

My view is that the AFL will not allow any club to go under, because they need 18 clubs to get the best possible TV Rights, when we are again back playing football. Also I would be amazed if the AFL, being a business, does not get some assistance from either or both Federal/State Governments, and along with the ability of the AFL to either borrow against Marvel Stadium, or use Marvel as security to guarantee individual clubs, find a way to get through this.

Bear in mind it is not so long ago that the State Government provided various levels of funds to assist Geelong build grandstands. Surely the survival of a club or clubs ranks above that in priority, so politically it would not be a good move if they don't come to the party here, unless it is beyond their financial resources.

In my opinion, the survival of football codes, though ranking way below the importance of physical health, does have a much greater significance from a mental health perspective.
Personally I’m not worried about our survival. We’ll get through as I believe all clubs. “Fearful” was a bad choice of words. Maybe from an assistant coaches perspective, but then I think the game will be ok if it’s leaner.


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The acurate one

Club Legend
Jan 23, 2019
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Naturally, I wouldn’t think of sprouting anything but facts given you are the accurate one. Nauru once had the 2nd highest GDP per capita behind Saudi. They, like the AFL pissed all their money up the wall on Rolls’, private jets and West End musicals (the AFL equivalent of AFLX). Not only did they squander their phosphate wealth, they also mined the shit out of the Island leaving it unusable for future farming.

As a result they are on Australia’s teet housing our refugees for $40m a year.
Yeah it's a sad state of affairs and just another example of what's currently wrong with the world. There's enough for everyone if we shared our resources. If we're equal there's also no need to attack anyone else either.

Just sayin'.
 

SMaturin

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 27, 2010
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Part of the 'new world order' is recognising that there won't be 'order.' Not being clear will be the order (sorry) of the day. Dealing with uncertainty and emergence and being resilient and adaptable in the face of that uncertainty, 'chaos' and emergence. We can't, for example, even assume all clubs will be intact. (I'd be betting they won't, along with many, many non-football related businesses, with some folding that may shock us.)


Absolutamente! Nothing is more certain than change. It's changed before, it'll change again.

Albeit, this worldwide pandemic is HUGE, and to expect it not to change the landscape of the AFL is as fanciful as the AFL thinking they'd have an AFL season this year.

In the parlous economic situation we'll face post-pandemic (and during it) to assume our economy can support an AFL industry as 'fat' as the one we've had, is ludicrous. It'll be a fraction of the size. Broadcasters won't have money, fans won't have money, the AFL and the clubs that survive won't have money... at least not at the same levels as we've had. Do they go back to 12 teams, with a severe reduction in the number of Victorian teams (2 WA, 2 SA, 1 NSW, 7 VIC, for example) or, temporarily, revert to state leagues? We really don't know how bad it's going to get.


Yes, but where will we be without your post modern wanky write ups? :p But seriously, yeah, nothing is off the table.
Campaigner my writing is Chaucer-esque in its timelessness!

Maybe we play games out of Arden St when things start up again...
 

Kimbo

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 14, 2002
19,049
28,045
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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Yeah, I don't think his comments, or what I saw of them are all that bad. Are we, here, not also a little worried about our club?

I think Ben articulated that very well. I interpret his comments as along the lines of "Yes we will have to go back into some debt to get through but that's not the main concern. The main concern is to come out the other end, (whenever that may be) and then we go back to work on all fronts."

My view is that the AFL will not allow any club to go under, because they need 18 clubs to get the best possible TV Rights, when we are again back playing football. Also I would be amazed if the AFL, being a business, does not get some assistance from either or both Federal/State Governments, and along with the ability of the AFL to either borrow against Marvel Stadium, or use Marvel as security to guarantee individual clubs, find a way to get through this.

Bear in mind it is not so long ago that the State Government provided various levels of funds to assist Geelong build grandstands. Surely the survival of a club or clubs ranks above that in priority, so politically it would not be a good move if they don't come to the party here, unless it is beyond their financial resources.

In my opinion, the survival of football codes, though ranking way below the importance of physical health, does have a much greater significance from a mental health perspective.
18 clubs for TV rights? Until now, yes. After, who knows?

What will Marvel be worth after this is all over? It may not be the asset you think it is. Precedents of any kind, may not be at all relevant in future.

IT’S GOING TO BE DIFFERENT!
 

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