Opinion Are we on the verge of another period of dominance from teams not based in Melbourne?

Is the AFL about to be dominated by teams based outside of Melbourne?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

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VicBased

Club Legend
May 3, 2019
1,814
1,863
AFL Club
West Coast
Last time 2 Melbourne based clubs were 1 and 2 at end of H&A was 2000.

The H&A fixture favours teams who actually have a home ground.
2000, ess/carlton,
2008 gee/hawthorn,
2009 gee/WB,
2010 coll/gee,
2011coll/gee,
2013haw/gee,
2022 gee/melb
These are the teams that finished 1-2 since 2000.
 

VicBased

Club Legend
May 3, 2019
1,814
1,863
AFL Club
West Coast
Don't waste your time. They aren't worth it. Apparently if we don't like the bias coming out of the v AFL we shouldn't say anything and instead create a new competition.
Nawww, they would miss us if we went. They would only have themselves to argue with and a footy civil war would erupt in Melbourne.:cool:
 

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VicBased

Club Legend
May 3, 2019
1,814
1,863
AFL Club
West Coast
He’s not counting Geelong. Because it suits his argument better.
Oh, O.K, now i get it.
I guess he will come at me with some other rubbish stats, but Collingwood are not favoured and only play one TRUE home game. The other 13 are,well, just not home games.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
2000, ess/carlton,
2008 gee/hawthorn,
2009 gee/WB,
2010 coll/gee,
2011coll/gee,
2013haw/gee,
2022 gee/melb
These are the teams that finished 1-2 since 2000.
As I said, 2000 the last time two Melbourne teams finished top2.

The argument that Melbourne power brokers are cooking the books doesnt really hold does it?

Teams that retain a proper home ground advantage dominate the top 2 positions.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
He’s not counting Geelong. Because it suits his argument better.
Geelong are a team not based in Melbourne.

Geelong have a proper home ground advantage.

Why would Melbourne power brokers want Geelong to succeed over Melbourne based clubs?

Argument is pretty simple, home ground advantage is real.

In H&A there a select group of teams that enjoy a strong home advantage. 9 or 10 games with a real home ground advantage over their opponent.

Unsurprisingly, these teams dominate H&A ladder. These teams often go on to lose "home finals" to "lower ranked" teams.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
Oh, O.K, now i get it.
I guess he will come at me with some other rubbish stats, but Collingwood are not favoured and only play one TRUE home game. The other 13 are,well, just not home games.
Same consitent argument....home ground advantage is King during H&A.

Of the 14, normally 3-5 are with an actual home ground advantage over our opponent, SA/WA is ALWAYS 10 games with a home ground advantage.

WA/SA fans try to claim they travel for 10 so the home advantage games even out.

The WA/SA logic is that if you sell a game travel doesnt count and you still have a "home ground advantage" when travelling to different state that you may play just 2-3 times a year.

Melbourne based ground rationalisation has reduced the away disadvantage the non-Melbourne teams face.
 

Square Peg

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 20, 2014
7,607
16,943
Fremantle WA
AFL Club
Fremantle
Same consitent argument....home ground advantage is King during H&A.

Of the 14, normally 3-5 are with an actual home ground advantage over our opponent, SA/WA is ALWAYS 10 games with a home ground advantage.

WA/SA fans try to claim they travel for 10 so the home advantage games even out.

The WA/SA logic is that if you sell a game travel doesnt count and you still have a "home ground advantage" when travelling to different state that you may play just 2-3 times a year.

Melbourne based ground rationalisation has reduced the away disadvantage the non-Melbourne teams face.
Fine, the solution is simple.
Halve the number of Vic teams. Merge 10 into five, you can pick who you want to sleep with.
Two of the five teams can share MCG (like the WA and SA teams share), two can share Marvel, one can play at the alphabet in Geelong.
12 team comp, 2 in SA, 2 WA, one every other state.
All you Vics can travel interstate 7 times a year H&A.
There won't be a single non Vic dissenting voice, even though you get to drive to four away games a year and we get to drive to one.
BRING IT ON
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
Fine, the solution is simple.
Halve the number of Vic teams. Merge 10 into five, you can pick who you want to sleep with.
Two of the five teams can share MCG (like the WA and SA teams share), two can share Marvel, one can play at the alphabet in Geelong.
12 team comp, 2 in SA, 2 WA, one every other state.
All you Vics can travel interstate 7 times a year H&A.
There won't be a single non Vic dissenting voice, even though you get to drive to four away games a year and we get to drive to one.
BRING IT ON
Even if you revert to a 12 team comp as you suggest - 4 in Melbourne, 1 Geelong, 2 WA, 2 SA, 1 QLD, 1 NSW, 1 Tas - and you play all teams H&A it would still result in skewed travel.

11 trips for the QLD, NSW, Tas and Geel team
10 trips for WA teams
7 trips for Melbourne based

Is that really any different from current FIXture??

Currently it is 10 for your WA/SA/QLD/NSW teams, and Melbourne based teams having a range from 5-9.
 

VicBased

Club Legend
May 3, 2019
1,814
1,863
AFL Club
West Coast
Same consitent argument....home ground advantage is King during H&A.

Of the 14, normally 3-5 are with an actual home ground advantage over our opponent, SA/WA is ALWAYS 10 games with a home ground advantage.

WA/SA fans try to claim they travel for 10 so the home advantage games even out.

The WA/SA logic is that if you sell a game travel doesnt count and you still have a "home ground advantage" when travelling to different state that you may play just 2-3 times a year.

Melbourne based ground rationalisation has reduced the away disadvantage the non-Melbourne teams face.
With your argument that MCG tenants suffer with HGA advantage, I think it is flawed.
If Collingwood (as an example)is strong in any year they will be dominant on their home ground, even considering tenants are playing ok.
They make the Granny against a interstate team who finishes above them then they will have a decided advantage.
2018 was a prime example and WC only just sqeaked in.
Anyway let's agree to disagree and move on.
 

Square Peg

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 20, 2014
7,607
16,943
Fremantle WA
AFL Club
Fremantle
Even if you revert to a 12 team comp as you suggest - 4 in Melbourne, 1 Geelong, 2 WA, 2 SA, 1 QLD, 1 NSW, 1 Tas - and you play all teams H&A it would still result in skewed travel.

11 trips for the QLD, NSW, Tas and Geel team
10 trips for WA teams
7 trips for Melbourne based

Is that really any different from current FIXture??

Currently it is 10 for your WA/SA/QLD/NSW teams, and Melbourne based teams having a range from 5-9.
I have already said in this thread I don't give two hoots about skewed travel, it's our lot as a WA team. I'm trying to help you out with solutions to your ludicrous suggestion that Vic teams are disadvantaged by not having a home ground advantage. See, I want a fair even comp where each team plays every other team twice a year H&A. What do you want?
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
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Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
I have already said in this thread I don't give two hoots about skewed travel, it's our lot as a WA team.
Your view isnt shared by majority of WA fans.
I'm trying to help you out with solutions to your ludicrous suggestion that Vic teams are disadvantaged by not having a home ground advantage.
A less drastic approach would be for the AFL to change stadium deals so that Melbourne teams get to play their home games at their preferred home ground.
See, I want a fair even comp where each team plays every other team twice a year H&A. What do you want?
The reality of where our competition is, IMHO that isnt possible.

My preferred approach would be to re-look at the FIXture, you dont need to fixate on 22 rounds as shown this year.

Some principles

ensure all teams have a single preferred home ground

ensure all teams play the same number of home games on their home ground

i would lean toward less is more....one game against each team is more equitable than the current situation

if the AFL wants magic rounds and "development" games in different regions, ensure all teams have to play a certain number of these neutral games
 

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Freddy Swift

Team Captain
Jul 25, 2022
347
1,081
AFL Club
Richmond
2000, ess/carlton,
2008 gee/hawthorn,
2009 gee/WB,
2010 coll/gee,
2011coll/gee,
2013haw/gee,
2022 gee/melb
These are the teams that finished 1-2 since 2000.

Geelong are not from Melbourne. Just ask them, they will very quickly tell you in no uncertain terms that they are Geelong, they are not a Melbourne side.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
With your argument that MCG tenants suffer with HGA advantage, I think it is flawed.
My argument is teams who dont play home games at a single preferred home ground, suffer reduced home ground advantage.

Teams who have retained a unique home ground, thus enjoy a strong home ground advantage benefit during H&A.
If Collingwood (as an example)is strong in any year they will be dominant on their home ground, even considering tenants are playing ok.
The stats show that if non-Melbourne teams are strong, they finish top 2 in H&A.

Grand Finals in Aussie Rules competitions have historically been played at the biggest stadium available to the particular league, always biased towards satisfying majority of stakeholders.
 

Carringbush2010

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
16,285
9,762
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
Hard to give a definitive answer.

A few vic teams that could have sustained good periods, unfortunately the enemies in the blose, the dream-ons and the tigs. Could happily go seasons in a row of teams like Port, BL and Freo flagging if they stop the enemies.

It'd be nice if we actually stopped being a failure and won a couple too.
 

JackOutback

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2011
27,929
40,699
AFL Club
West Coast
Geelong are a team not based in Melbourne.

Geelong have a proper home ground advantage.

Why would Melbourne power brokers want Geelong to succeed over Melbourne based clubs?

Argument is pretty simple, home ground advantage is real.

In H&A there a select group of teams that enjoy a strong home advantage. 9 or 10 games with a real home ground advantage over their opponent.

Unsurprisingly, these teams dominate H&A ladder. These teams often go on to lose "home finals" to "lower ranked" teams.
It’s Vicbias, not Melbias.
 

FourthTimeAround

Club Legend
Jun 6, 2022
1,860
2,255
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Geelong are a team not based in Melbourne.

Geelong have a proper home ground advantage.

Why would Melbourne power brokers want Geelong to succeed over Melbourne based clubs?

Argument is pretty simple, home ground advantage is real.

In H&A there a select group of teams that enjoy a strong home advantage. 9 or 10 games with a real home ground advantage over their opponent.

Unsurprisingly, these teams dominate H&A ladder. These teams often go on to lose "home finals" to "lower ranked" teams.
This is a classic example of reviewing selected facts to arrive at a predetermined conclusion.

Eg Apparently these teams that have a home ground advantage during H&A against "lower ranked teams", often go on to lose home finals against those same "lower ranked teams"

Have a look at what you would say are dominant H&A seasons (19, 18, 17 wins?) , and see if you can spot the trend.

Hint. It's not about any specific team. But it's is about a specific region.
 

Blackas87

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 15, 2011
10,231
12,589
Kwan-li-so
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Orlando magic
There was an article in the herald sun, saying Dustin Martin resigned for Richmond because the big game exposure was worth 150k a year for him and his sponsors.

The same friday, Saturday night and national broadcast games.

Maybe if the game played in Vic was not national broadcast then the non Vic clubs would more room in the salary cap, and they spread the thursday, Friday games out.
Richmond get prime time games because they’ve kind of been a pretty good team to watch the last few years, Dustin is part of the reason they’ve been pretty good.

Dustin gets $150k a year in sponsors because he’s a star of the comp. He re-signed with the team he’s spent his whole career at and now that’s a problem? Fyfe has also re-signed with the club he’s spent his whole career at, what’s the difference?
 

go_the_dockers

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 11, 2008
11,313
8,104
Adelaide
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man Utd
Richmond get prime time games because they’ve kind of been a pretty good team to watch the last few years, Dustin is part of the reason they’ve been pretty good.

Dustin gets $150k a year in sponsors because he’s a star of the comp. He re-signed with the team he’s spent his whole career at and now that’s a problem? Fyfe has also re-signed with the club he’s spent his whole career at, what’s the difference?
Dustin gets 150k more from sponsors than he would get if he was at a mon vic side because he gets so many Friday night and national broadcast games.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,961
11,515
Putney
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Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
So......that's Collingwood. . ....Yeah?
Na, it is teams who enjoy a home ground adavantage against their opponents.

Collingwood play a glut of games against opponents who also call the G home, no advantage to either team.

Check which teams finished top2 at end of H&A ladder most often since 2000....Geelong, Port, Brisbane, WC, Adelaide

Non-Melbourne teams, those who retained their home ground and enjoy a significant home ground advantage in 9+ games per year