Analysis Are we really an underperforming top 4 team?

[Janus]

Players Hawthorn had that were in the premiership zone (150 games plus) - 8 (Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Shaun Burgoyne, Jordan Lewis, Grant Birchall, Cyril Rioli, Josh Gibson, James Frawley)

Players Hawthorn had that had 100-150 games experience - 7 (Ben McEvoy, Benjamin Stratton, Liam Shiels, Paul Puopolo, Luke Bruest, Jack Gunston, Isaac Smith)

Players Hawthorn had that had 50-100 games experience - 2 (Bradley Hill, Taylor Duryea)

Players Hawthorn had that had less than 50 games experience - 5 (Jonathon Ceglar, Billy Hartung, James Sicilly, Daniel Howe, Kaiden Brand)

VS

Players Port had that were in the premiership zone (150 games plus) - 4 (Justin Westhoff, Jay Schulz, Travis Boak, Brad Ebert)

Players Port had that had 100-150 games experience - 5 (Robbie Gray, Jackson Trengove, Hamish Hartlett, Matthew Broadbent, Chad Wingard)

Players Port had that had 50-100 games experience - 6 (Jasper Pittard, Oliver Wines, Aaron Young, Cameron O'Shea, Charlie Dixon, Nathan Krakouer)

Players Port had that had less than 50 games experience - 7 (Jake Neade, Jarman Impey, Karl Amon, Kane Mitchell, Darcy Byrne-Jones, Tom Clurey, Logan Austin)

But hey, let's pack it in and rebuild so we can go through the same s**t again because you're all too impatient to develop a list.

 

[NEGAN]

I have no problems with KT calling us a top 4 team.

 

[Power Girl]

I would probably give a lot more weight to the missing players argument if I didn't see the malaise of the senior players who are still out there each week. If players such as Hartlett, Boak, Hoff, Wines, Wingard and even Gray were performing as we have come to expect, then not only would our results be different but I think any losses would be dissected in a more rational and reasonable manner.

It appears to be effort at times. You can see that Dixon, Jacko and DBJ give a crap. It doesn't always work for Dixon but he is still giving it his all. I like seeing our players give a crap.

 

[brogan_96]

Give him enough time in our system and he too will start missing them.

oh god here we go.... why don't you go become a cow fan if you hate port so much

 

[DaTBird187]

I would probably give a lot more weight to the missing players argument if I didn't see the malaise of the senior players who are still out there each week. If players such as Hartlett, Boak, Hoff, Wines, Wingard and even Gray were performing as we have come to expect, then not only would our results be different but I think any losses would be dissected in a more rational and reasonable manner.

It appears to be effort at times. You can see that Dixon, Jacko and DBJ give a crap. It doesn't always work for Dixon but he is still giving it his all. I like seeing our players give a crap.

Maybe they would be performing at the level expected, with the support of the players that are missing. I'd say it would be a lot easier to play elite football when you have guys with experience on every line, rather than have to make do with bit players and rookies, who wouldn't be playing if not got the current situation.

 

[Trewth]

We have the talent to be but the group doesn't have anywhere near the mental fortitude necessary. Neither do the coaches imo.

 

[NEGAN]

I would probably give a lot more weight to the missing players argument if I didn't see the malaise of the senior players who are still out there each week. If players such as Hartlett, Boak, Hoff, Wines, Wingard and even Gray were performing as we have come to expect, then not only would our results be different but I think any losses would be dissected in a more rational and reasonable manner.

It appears to be effort at times. You can see that Dixon, Jacko and DBJ give a crap. It doesn't always work for Dixon but he is still giving it his all. I like seeing our players give a crap.

Watching Dixon do his thing, makes me disappointed that we don't see one of seniors just charge and show any emotion that they want us to win.

 

[Willsy10]

No, we aren't even close anymore.

 

[klem22]

NO we are not.
Serious problems if changes dont continue to occur both at coaching and playing levels.

 

[Janus]

We have the talent to be but the group doesn't have anywhere near the mental fortitude necessary. Neither do the coaches imo.

Hawthorn went through the same thing. RussellEbertHandball made a good point about it in his Making Top 4 thread - it was when Hodge and Mitchell developed the mean streak they have now that they found the steely edge necessary to overcome that last mental hurdle - which is thinking that talent and endeavour will win you flags. It won't. Teams will smash into you and the umpires won't do a thing about it because they aren't actually infringing in the contest, only making the contest hard.

That's why premierships are won by sides that are older - they've been through the wringer and have become sufficiently hard enough to deal with adversity.

 

[MrMeaner]

Players Hawthorn had that were in the premiership zone (150 games plus) - 8 (Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Shaun Burgoyne, Jordan Lewis, Grant Birchall, Cyril Rioli, Josh Gibson, James Frawley)

Players Hawthorn had that had 100-150 games experience - 7 (Ben McEvoy, Benjamin Stratton, Liam Shiels, Paul Puopolo, Luke Bruest, Jack Gunston, Isaac Smith)

Players Hawthorn had that had 50-100 games experience - 2 (Bradley Hill, Taylor Duryea)

Players Hawthorn had that had less than 50 games experience - 5 (Jonathon Ceglar, Billy Hartung, James Sicilly, Daniel Howe, Kaiden Brand)

VS

Players Port had that were in the premiership zone (150 games plus) - 4 (Justin Westhoff, Jay Schulz, Travis Boak, Brad Ebert)

Players Port had that had 100-150 games experience - 5 (Robbie Gray, Jackson Trengove, Hamish Hartlett, Matthew Broadbent, Chad Wingard)

Players Port had that had 50-100 games experience - 6 (Jasper Pittard, Oliver Wines, Aaron Young, Cameron O'Shea, Charlie Dixon, Nathan Krakouer)

Players Port had that had less than 50 games experience - 7 (Jake Neade, Jarman Impey, Karl Amon, Kane Mitchell, Darcy Byrne-Jones, Tom Clurey, Logan Austin)

But hey, let's pack it in and rebuild so we can go through the same s**t again because you're all too impatient to develop a list.

But apart from DBJ and Austin, we need to completely write off our inexperienced players, don't we? Or at least just the indigenous ones.

 

[Us against the rest]

We are about 7-8 when we get suspended/injured players back.

If our skills/structure are the same we drop to 9th.

If we improve we could be a 5-6 team.

Ken will be gone at the end of 2017 if we are not in the 8.

Our structures will improve greatly when our players return because the outs this year play in the important positions, where you build a team around to have good structures. Our skills will have have to improve to make it all gel though.

 

[PAFC66]

Let's just wait till Ryder comes back. We need to aggressively trade though. Like I mentioned earlier there's about 6-7 players who are safe. Everyone else should be put on the table.

I'm not giving up on Bobby either. Needs a big preseason, HUGE like he did in 2012 or his career is over. Get hombsh back and our defense instantly looks better.

 

[Us against the rest]

You would be barking mad if you didn't think any or all of Ryder, Monfries, White, Polec, Schulz, Carlile, Hombsch or Lobbe would have had a positive influence on any of the games they have missed and we have lost by small margins.

What do you think Adelaide's record would be without Jacobs, Talia or Jenkins. Or some of their midfield depth in Riley Rory, Rory Riley, Rory Rory or Riley Riley.

What if North Melbourne for the first ten games didn't have Goldstein, Thompson, The Flying Farrito Brothers, Swallow, Wells.

Our personnel losses have been significant and delivered us 5 losses by less than 4 goals, which with a little rub of the green or even half the players above available we would have won. Nobody would then be starting threads like "I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley' or 'Are we really an underperforming top 4 team? '

There is very little rational thought on this forum and it is getting pretty tiring.

IMO it's just one of those years all teams have, everything that could go wrong did, we just have to deal with it. If next year we don't show our true potential then we make calls on the coaches and some of our highly rated players that may under perform. We have a good core group of players to build on, with Ryder, Dixon, Hombsch, and Jones through our spine and players like gray, Wingard and (Hartlett ??)

 

[Established1870]

IMO it's just one of those years all teams have,

Yes but this is the second year in a row that it's happened. I am honestly amazed that we haven't gotten more flak for our underachieving for the past 2 years. I don't think it's the players but the coaches who need to be looked at.

 

[PatientMental]

Yes but this is the second year in a row that it's happened. I am honestly amazed that we haven't gotten more flak for our underachieving for the past 2 years. I don't think it's the players but the coaches who need to be looked at.

We would be getting smashed in the media if it wasn't for Richmond being inexplicably Richmond once again, Collingwood becoming disenchanted with their coach and playing list, Gold Coast stinking it up again, Essendon literally not having any players, and the big one: Fremantle doing the good old 1st to bottom four tank.

 

[Established1870]

We would be getting smashed in the media if it wasn't for Richmond being inexplicably Richmond once again, Collingwood becoming disenchanted with their coach and playing list, Gold Coast stinking it up again, Essendon literally not having any players, and the big one: Fremantle doing the good old 1st to bottom four tank.

And I'm 100% grateful for all those sides making us looking like contenders for the flag with the years they're having (especially Freo/Richmond), but I think more media pressure would make people in the club (Koch, Ken) do more about our situation. It worked for Geelong in 06.

 

[Jonts]

Yes but this is the second year in a row that it's happened. I am honestly amazed that we haven't gotten more flak for our underachieving for the past 2 years. I don't think it's the players but the coaches who need to be looked at.

More flak? Amazed?
Do you live in Adelaide?

 

[Established1870]

More flak? Amazed?
Do you live in Adelaide?

Yes I do, but I've also been staying in Kingscote for the past few weeks so if I missed the more flak part then there's my excuse. But even before I left the mainland everyone in our local media was talking about the Pride of Nowhere more than they were us.

 

[mic59]

We have the list to be a top four team, there is no doubt about it. The result of the 2014 preliminary final shows that these players have the ability to gel together and play at a top finals level. But the under-performing bit also rings true. A lot of our close to elite players have not stood up this year. While it is true there have been injuries and the WADA suspension of Monfries and Ryder other teams have been able to overcome that kind of setback. The loss of Schulz and trying to slot Dixon in as the lone big forward has not worked. There have been injuries and losses of form that have come at inappropriate times. Lobbe with both of those, Sam Gray and Ah Chee not going on after the end of last year, Wingard losing form after nearly losing his head last year, Polec losing form after a long injury lay off. There are others, the only really positive stories from this year have been Jacko, Youngy and DBJ.
As we noticed against Hawthorn, we are only really good disposal off being a top 4 team. Getting the ball is pretty pointless if you bomb it out to an opponent. It will just come back, more likely than not with your players out of position.

 

[Jonts]

I'm all for older sides win flags

But you also need finals experience

 

[tribey]

^_^!

 

[DaTBird187]

^_^!

Ironically this is the post of yours I understand the most.

 

[nomisg]

Players Hawthorn had that were in the premiership zone (150 games plus) - 8 (Sam Mitchell, Luke Hodge, Shaun Burgoyne, Jordan Lewis, Grant Birchall, Cyril Rioli, Josh Gibson, James Frawley)

In another year or two our list looks more like the Hawks, but then again they started their run 5 years ago now, so not seeing the logic.

For me, we don't have the ball users to execute our own game plan, nor the commitment to work hard enough for each other. Last night, too many times we went on the switch, which was the correct idea, but our players didn't commit hard enough to make it work. Holding and using possession requires everyone without the ball working their asses off to get into space.

Thinking speed and talent will get you across the line is a fantasy

 

[PAFC66]

We were a overachieving top 8 side in 13,14.. we are where are meant to be now. We are probably where we all thought we would be at the moment if you were asked at the end of 2012..