Opinion Are we really that far behind the Suns?

[BarryAglett]

I used to think that, and then we got Kelly and WHE showed what he can do.

With Kelly, WHE and Scully, we can track back and burn through the center on a turnover like no-ones buisiness

Yeah, they played with excellent spread and run. Especially in the second half of the season.

 

[Danny88]

Hey All - New member alert.
I think that the Giants have a different game style to the Suns; that makes it hard to compare unless you look at straight win/loss ratios. We are all about contested ball first, polish second. Suns look more like a skillful outside running team. Even though this was our breakout year I expect that the Giants attacking side will go up another level. 8 wins and a % of 85-90 sounds about right.

But they are so limited if their key inside mids aren't firing (or get injured) as their outside runners have no ball that way....

 

[TheSunGod]

But they are so limited if their key inside mids aren't firing (or get injured) as their outside runners have no ball that way....

That's a very good point and something I've noticed about the Suns. If we are not winning the ball at the coal face, the whole team is starved whereas GWS have contested ball winners all over the ground.

 

[IanW]

That's a very good point and something I've noticed about the Suns. If we are not winning the ball at the coal face, the whole team is starved whereas GWS have contested ball winners all over the ground.

We also have ball butchers in several positions

 

[BarryAglett]

That's a very good point and something I've noticed about the Suns. If we are not winning the ball at the coal face, the whole team is starved whereas GWS have contested ball winners all over the ground.

Probably why the blowtorch in on Bluey at the moment.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

If this is on the money then the gap between the suns and us might get even closer, will the suns show they are more then 1 player now? they will need to

 

[Determinant]

If this is on the money then the gap between the suns and us might get even closer, will the suns show they are more then 1 player now? they will need to

You'd think so, if true they will do a pre-season without relying on him for anything more than moral support, it's not like the other 40 odd guys are bad, they simply are not Ablett and they were over-relying on him.

 

[Mullayo]

Last year I compared our two teams using AFL Ratings - which may be flawed but shows some obvious trends.
I believe you need to be under roughly 300 (18team X 18 players = 324) to be a starter-calibre player.
They have the top player but only 4 under 200 while we had 8 and both around 14-16 around the mythical 300 mark.
Which does indeed show we are a better balanced side but they have Ablett.
I think I'll do an update to see if there have been any changes.


Rating Player Position Points

1 Gary Ablett Midfielder 720
27 Harley Bennel lMidfielder 476

117 Dion Prestia Defender 379

146 Jarrod Harbrow Defender 361



216 David Swallow Midfielder 308
217 Danny Stanley Defender 307
228 Trent McKenzie Defender 299
229 Greg Broughton Defender 297
247 Charlie Dixon Ruck 281
261 Rory Thompson Defender 274
264 Jared Brennan Midfielder 271
281 Matt Shaw Defender 260
293 Aaron Hall Forward 252
296 Jaeger O'Meara Midfielder 249
303 Campbell Brow Forward 244
305 Sam Day Forward 243



333 Michael Rischitell Midfielder 215
341 Tom Murphy Defender 210
346 Steven May Forward 206
347 Luke Russell Defender 206
349 Brandon Matera Forward 202
351 Zac Smith Ruck 201
367 Tom Lynch Forward 188
378 Matthew Warnock Defender 177



400 Karmichael Hunt Midfielder 162
472 Kyal Horsley Midfielder 109
480 Sebastian Tape Defender 103
514 Joel Wilkinson Defender 88


GWS

29 Callan Ward Midfielder 475
55 Heath Shaw 444
124 Dylan Shiel Midfielder 374

149 Shane Mumford Ruck 357
151 Jonathan Giles Ruck 354
160 Jeremy Cameron Forward 349
164 Adam Treloar Midfielder 347
188 Tom Scully Midfielder 325
215 Toby Greene Midfielder 308
218 Josh Hunt Defender 305
231 Devon Smith Midfielder 296



276 Tim Mohr Defender 265
287 Phil Davis Defender 256


322 Stephen Coniglio Midfielder 226


356 Rhys Palmer Midfielder 197
366 Curtly Hampton Defender 188
371 Adam Kennedy Defender 186
375 Tomas Bugg Defender 181
379 Dylan Addison Defender 179
401 Lachie Whitfield Midfielder 162
427 Stephen Gilham Defender 143
441 Adam Tomlinson Forward 134
451 Will Hoskin-Elliott Midfielder 124
494 Nicholas Haynes Midfielder 99
510 Zachary Williams Midfielder 89
529 Matthew Buntine Defender 79
553 Jed Lamb
554 Jonathon Patton

 

[Mullayo]

I believe you need to be under roughly 300 (18team X 18 players = 324) to be a starter-calibre player.
Last year they had the top player but only 4 under 200 while we had 8 and both had 14-16 players around the mythical 300 mark. Overall it showed we were a better balanced side.

A year later they have an almost full 17 starter level players while we have 12 and will probably lose Giles.
However we have 5 incl injured Davis close enough who should make the leap this year plus a couple of rookies who will make a big leap (Kelly and Boyd).
They have 11 under 200 (good players) to our 8.
After 300 the advantage is all with us. Seems the Gold Coast has a lot of unpromising players (apart from 4 rookies Martin, Kolodjashnij, Lemmens and Leslie) on the back end of their list.

RANK--NAME--------2014--------NAME--RANK

1Gary Ablett---------------------Callan Ward22

35Dion Prestia-----------------Adam Treloar61

53Jaeger O'Meara--------------Devon Smith86

81Harley Bennell------------Shane Mumford94

90David Swallow----------------Heath Shaw99

-------------------100 mark---------------------

114Jarrod Harbrow-------------Dylan Shiel122

143Trent McKenzie-------------Tom Scully153

162Rory Thompson---------Jeremy Cameron182

------------------------------GWS 200 mark---

170Steven May-------------Jonathan Giles215

183Charlie Dixon-------------Toby Greene219

190Tom Lynch-------------Lachlan Whitfield262

GS 200 mark-------------------------------------

203Aaron Hall-------------Stephen Coniglio265

-----------------------------------GWS300 mark

231Sam Day-------------------Rhys Palmer303

238Michael Rischitelli-------------Tim Mohr306

242Danny Stanley---------------Josh Hunt310

248Greg Broughton---------Will Hoskin-Elliott312

269Matt Shaw-----------------Adam Kennedy331

GS 300 mark----------------------------------------

302Brandon Matera-----------Curtly Hampton333

381Luke Russell-------------Adam Tomlinson362

390Zac Smith-----------------------Phil Davis383

GS 400 mark----------------------------------------

408Tom Murphy-------------Jonathon Patton391

439Kade Kolodjashnij-------------Tomas Bugg400

-----------------------------------GWS400 mark--

453Tom Nicholls-----------------Nick Haynes414

484Campbell Brown-------------Zac Williams422

491Alex Sexton-----------------Joshua Kelly436

498Sean Lemmens----------------Sam Frost451

GS 500 mark----------------------------------------

505Daniel Gorringe-----------Stephen Gilham476

514Jesse Lonergan------------------Jed Lamb478

518Matthew Warnock------------Matt Buntine 481

527Timmy Sumner------------Lachie Plowman485

535Jack Martin-----------------Dylan Addison494

-----------------------------------GWS500 mark--

556Seb Tape-----------------------Aidan Corr526

578Jack Hutchins---------------Nathan Wilson572

586Andrew Boston-------------Jacob Townsend573

614Karmichael Hunt----------------Tom Boyd581

683 Jack Leslie----------------James Stewart 664

FORECAST: This time next year, apart from Ablett, I expect our ratings to pretty much mirror the Suns current ratings up to around the 300 mark and be a lot better after that.

Although, if the Suns are a blueprint it seems cracking the rotation as a rookie will become much harder after next year and that advantage will be difficult to maintain.

The Suns 4 rookies Martin 535, Kolodjashnij 439, Lemmens 498 and Leslie 683have very high ratings probably through limited opportunity because the starters become set in stone.

 

[Brock Lesnar]

Maybe, but that doesn't mean we won't win a flag before they do. Ablett won't be around forever for them and we saw what happened this year when he went down.

 

[Mullayo]

Maybe, but that doesn't mean we won't win a flag before they do. Ablett won't be around forever for them and we saw what happened this year when he went down.

Maybe but for now we're still a year behind I'd say. Suns should be in the finals this year. We should be just below.
So they'll have one - albeit improbable - shot at it before we can get there I reckon.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Maybe but for now we're still a year behind I'd say. Suns should be in the finals this year. We should be just below.
So they'll have one - albeit improbable - shot at it before we can get there I reckon.

Would of agreed a few months ago but given they no longer have a snr coach and who knows what could happen with that, and the rumours about ablett not being right for the preseason and doubtful for round 1 then you have to say theres a fair bit of a questionmark on them

 

[Mullayo]

Would of agreed a few months ago but given they no longer have a snr coach and who knows what could happen with that, and the rumours about ablett not being right for the preseason and doubtful for round 1 then you have to say theres a fair bit of a questionmark on them

Yeah if they lost Ablett for anytime I agree they would struggle. They would be especially weak in the midfield and mentally they lean on him a lot. He's a talisman. Something we don't have so much.
Mummy and Ward are our two main men.

 

[Scully2Folau]

I think there's an argument to be made that we're actually a year ahead...

2014 season: GWS installs new senior coach, adds experienced half back flanker

2015 season: GC installs new senior coach, adds experienced half back flanker

 

[Davo-27]

i think if your club can get Patful and 2-3 experienced players to guide and push your youngsters then you could be in the finals next season

big thing your club needs is to have high level trainers at your club, 1 thing i noticed is a high level of fitness can earn you upto 5-6 more wins than you would normally get as teams tend to die off late in the 3rd quarter.....

another thing your club needs is a passionate success driven president, that always helps, having someone who demands success can really push the whole club in the right direction

just some thoughts on your clubs situation and where it can improve......

 

[Land of the Giants]

I think the Suns have been strengthened a bit with Nick Malceski's decision to leave Sydney. He would have been a handy addition for us.

 

[Danny88]

I think the Suns have been strengthened a bit with Nick Malceski's decision to leave Sydney. He would have been a handy addition for us.

he would have been a handy addition to any team i think. However i maintain we already bought an experienced running half back flanker and the need is for a key position player not him....

Im ok with not getting him

 

[OrangeDuck]

I don't think we were ever interested in Malcheski. We have Shaw. We are happy.

 

[IanW]

I don't think we were ever interested in Malcheski. We have Shaw. We are happy.

And we have pizza !

 

[dlanod]

And we have pizza !

And falafels.

 

[IanW]

And falafels.

And Toby Greene can bring the vodka cruisers. Wait. Never mind.

 

[gee whiz giant]

I think we are as close developmentally to the Dogs and Demons as we are the Suns. If Griffen comes off, it'll be a do-or-die battle each game with WB.
And amidst yesterdays trade kerfuffle, Sam Frost has been forgotten. Not sure I'm comfortable with Frost playing against us in a Dees jumper. Dees, Dogs, Giants all reaching towards the handle of the same premiership window.

 

[Thrashor]

If Griffin and Patfull come and no existing best 22 leave then I think the two teams will be very evenly matched next year.
I personally think the Giants have a midfield better suited to finals/big games - there is so much grunt in Ward, Treloar, Shiels, Cogs and Greene.
The talls are on par in my view despite the Giants greater use of pick 1's for tall forwards - Lynch is going to be a gun forward and Thompson is going to be a gun full back.

 

[inamedthegiants]

Gold Coast will turn five next season and is unlikely to be flag-ready until 2017; GWS is another 12 months or more behind the rising Suns.

This was Jake Niall's view in yesterday's Age.

But I don't agree we are 12 months behind the Suns. I think they're far more dependent on Gary Ablett than they'd care to admit.

We're not reliant on any single player, let alone someone who is arguably the competitions best player. There was something very compelling about us towards the end of the season, when we had so many big names out and were more than competitive.

With an exciting trade period on the way, I think we can make really big strides next year.

Thoughts?

We have a better list. Across the park we beat them. If they didn't have Ablett, the Best player of all time, they'd be screwed. Ablett is a freak. We are lucky to have seen him in our lives.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

We have a better list. Across the park we beat them. If they didn't have Ablett, the Best player of all time, they'd be screwed. Ablett is a freak. We are lucky to have seen him in our lives.

Its worth considering that in the Suns 4th year they had the following experieced players - Ablett, Harbrow, Rischitelli, Broughton, Warnock & Tom Murphy.
While in our 4th year - Ward, Griffen, Mumford, Shaw, Patfull, Scully, Davis, Palmer. As great as Ablett is I know which group of players I would rather.

Up until to now in each corresponding year were been a couple of wins behind the suns and have to say I think '15 is the year we change that and I really think if our top end younger players improve as much as we think they will then I can't see us doing any worse then matching the suns 10 wins from there 4th season.