Are we ruthless enough?

[Pollywaffle]

Exactly this. We couldnt hold our own against the elite mids. We tend to perform much butter against the weaker or average midfields. Which is why we generally perform well against collingwood

Margarine would have been more effective..

 

[Pollywaffle]

It can't be denied that essentially the last 40 years of the 20th century were a barren period for the GFC.

At times we were just middle of the road, and for a period we were bridesmaids. We just couldn't land the big one.

Hawthorn were winning flags for fun, Carlton had a go, and then the Eagles toyed with us.

There was always someone better.

Then we had the first 6 years of the 21st century and I reckon a few of us despaired about ever seeing a flag, whilst the Lions churned out 3 in a row.

We finally struck a little gold patch 2007 - 2011 before again entering a decade of being close, but not good enough, whilst Hawthorn again stockpiled the flags with wins in 2013, 2014 and 2015.

I suspect a poster's opinion on what the club has or hasn't achieved will be influenced somewhat by the period of time said poster has followed the club.

Personally, I can see both sides of the argument. I can see reasons why we haven't won more but think we still could've done a little better too.

Good to be in the mix for such a long period, but frustrating with so many poor finishes .
I think we made up for it after 2007. I still feel like I got my money’s worth since then, even with the disappointments along the way. Can’t win them all.
Go cats!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Margarine would have been more effective..

2022 we had Guthrie and selwood in the middle. 24+25 we have lost both while Brisbane has only gained massively to their list.

 

[Vdubs]

We also won 8 in a row leading into this years granny including beating the eventual premiers by 38 points 2 weeks prior.

We did, but we were not clearly the best team. Losses to Lions and GWS at home were a sign. Did you think we'd beat Brisbane in the GF?

 

[iameviljez]

Well when they had a highly talented list for a long period they cashed in won flags where as we have underachieved to a degree

1968 1970 1972 1979 1981 1982 1987

Thats seven flags in about a 20 year era , and all this absolute nonsense about stabilty , they had 5 different premiership winning coaches for those 7 flags

Ken Hinkley apparently gave Port Ade great stabilty for 13 years and what have they got to show for it , absolutely nothing

Carlton was a rich team in a comp where half the sides were poor. Those flags started with just going and buying Barassi FFS

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

We did, but we were not clearly the best team. Losses to Lions and GWS at home were a sign. Did you think we'd beat Brisbane in the GF?

Yup I did.

We also came in to 22 GF with losses to GWS and losing our last 4 games to Sydney. A Swans team that also had an 11 game winning streak too by the way.

We came into this GF with a win against Brisbane 2 weeks earlier ffs.... Banged up too, while we had a full list bar Stewart, better form (Lions lost 2 of their last 5) and we didn't have to travel like Lions did.

I don't believe in either scenario you could "clearly" see who was the better team was before the GF and I don't think it was unreasonable to think we could've beat Brisbane this year going into it.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Carlton was a rich team in a comp where half the sides were poor. Those flags started with just going and buying Barassi FFS

No Carlton had a great 20 years ,and i couldnt care what system was in place at the time there were other powerhouse teams at the time like Hawthorn Nth Melb Richmond Collingwood and Essendon - and the Blues had to beat them to win the Premiership

And in that 20 year period Carlton would have probably played in 11-12 PFs , just like us , but unlike us the Blues cashed in properly and won 7 flags , and that is the number Geel should have 6-7 Premierships , but we have only got 4 , including one in the past 14 years

Geelong have underachieved , that is the bottom line .

 

[Pure_Ownage]

No Carlton had a great 20 years ,and i couldnt care what system was in place at the time there were other powerhouse teams at the time like Hawthorn Nth Melb Richmond Collingwood and Essendon - and the Blues had to beat them to win the Premiership

And in that 20 year period Carlton would have probably played in 11-12 PFs , just like us , but unlike us the Blues cashed in properly and won 7 flags , and that is the number Geel should have 6-7 Premierships , but we have only got 4 , including one in the past 14 years

Geelong have underachieved , that is the bottom line .

Yes but you are comparing the non salary cap era to the salary cap era which is like comparing 4th division local soccer to the EPL. Comparison holds no weight.

 

[iameviljez]

No Carlton had a great 20 years ,and i couldnt care what system was in place at the time there were other powerhouse teams at the time like Hawthorn Nth Melb Richmond Collingwood and Essendon - and the Blues had to beat them to win the Premiership

And in that 20 year period Carlton would have probably played in 11-12 PFs , just like us , but unlike us the Blues cashed in properly and won 7 flags , and that is the number Geel should have 6-7 Premierships , but we have only got 4 , including one in the past 14 years

Geelong have underachieved , that is the bottom line .

Absolutely disagree. Over 20 years, Carlton played in a 12-team league, in which South, StKilda, Fitzroy, Melbourne, Footscray and, to a lesser degree, Geelong, were non-starters for premierships due to zoning and bankruptcy.

Basically, they were competing with five other clubs for flags. Not seventeen.

There isn't some kind of magic sauce at Carlton. It was a wealthy and powerful club that could just go out and purchase Kernahan, Bosustow, Bradley, Syd Jackson etc from all over the country. Sides like the Dogs just couldn't do that.

Sacked a coach? That's ok, we'll just purchase a premiership coach like Barassi, Parkin (twice), or a proven winner in Walls.

For what it's worth, the only year where I thought we were the best team in it and we pissed away the chance was 2016. Every other year that we didn't win the flag, we looked pretty shaky on the lead-in.

 

[iameviljez]

We did, but we were not clearly the best team. Losses to Lions and GWS at home were a sign. Did you think we'd beat Brisbane in the GF?

I thought we would win on the back of the QF win, which was so comprehensive - but I wasn't bulletproof on it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I thought we would win on the back of the QF win, which was so comprehensive - but I wasn't bulletproof on it.

I think most did solely based on the QF, but in hindsight it shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone when you look at our performances against Brisbane the last two seasons

 

[goyoucatters]

I think most did solely based on the QF, but in hindsight it shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone when you look at our performances against Brisbane the last two seasons

Given the gulf in class between the two midfields, getting them once in the finals series was our realistic shot at glory. Either knock them off early and see someone else eliminate them, or avoid them till the GF and then look to the full 'shock and awe' outcome on the day.

As they've generally had our measure in a bunch of recent match-ups, taking them down twice in quick succession was never all that likely, And so it proved.

After all, it simply doesn't matter how ruthless you imagine yourself to be if the opposition has your measure in winning the ball, keeping the ball, and converting when they go forward. That's when dam walls burst and no amount of faux 'ruthlessness' will hold back the impending devastation. And that's at least what I thought I was witnessing as the goals rained down and our hopes disintegrated.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Given the gulf in class between the two midfields, getting them once in the finals series was our realistic shot at glory. Either knock them off early and see someone else eliminate them, or avoid them till the GF and then look to the full 'shock and awe' outcome on the day.

As they've generally had our measure in a bunch of recent match-ups, taking them down twice in quick succession was never all that likely, And so it proved.

After all, it simply doesn't matter how ruthless you imagine yourself to be if the opposition has your measure in winning the ball, keeping the ball, and converting when they go forward. That's when dam walls burst and no amount of faux 'ruthlessness' will hold back the impending devastation. And that's at least what I thought I was witnessing as the goals rained down and our hopes disintegrated.

Great post. I still have no idea what original poster meant by “ruthless” in the context of footy. Our contested work is just crap but that has nothing to do with being ruthless or not

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Given the gulf in class between the two midfields, getting them once in the finals series was our realistic shot at glory. Either knock them off early and see someone else eliminate them, or avoid them till the GF and then look to the full 'shock and awe' outcome on the day.

As they've generally had our measure in a bunch of recent match-ups, taking them down twice in quick succession was never all that likely, And so it proved.

After all, it simply doesn't matter how ruthless you imagine yourself to be if the opposition has your measure in winning the ball, keeping the ball, and converting when they go forward. That's when dam walls burst and no amount of faux 'ruthlessness' will hold back the impending devastation. And that's at least what I thought I was witnessing as the goals rained down and our hopes disintegrated.

I think you are like alot of "veteran " supporters , and im a tiny bit this way as well

Any club ( and basically every club in the comp has experinced this ) but when you have a long flag drought , and then you finally break that drought and have success i think the supporters are a little bit too forgiving

For example Geel won a premiership in 1963 - say then we then won one flag in the 70s and a single flag in the 80s and another flag in the 90s so there is no flag drought , then we have the 20 years of excellent performances , like we have , win an unbelievable number of games and so many PFs made - then given that scenario i think most Geel supporters would say we should have 6 flags not 4 for that outstanding 20 year patch

But because we had the long drought and some of thus thought at one stage we wouldnt win anything , then we experience the thrill and pure joy of those 4 premierships and thus understandably the attitude is ,if another 2 or 3 flags have slipped through the net , then so be bit , we have had alot of joy so we are very forgiving

 

[goyoucatters]

I think you are like alot of "veteran " supporters , and im a tiny bit this way as well

Any club ( and basically every club in the comp has experinced this ) but when you have a long flag drought , and then you finally break that drought and have success i think the supporters are a little bit too forgiving

For example Geel won a premiership in 1963 - say then we then won one flag in the 70s and a single flag in the 80s and another flag in the 90s so there is no flag drought , then we have the 20 years of excellent performances , like we have , win an unbelievable number of games and so many PFs made - then given that scenario i think most Geel supporters would say we should have 6 flags not 4 for that outstanding 20 year patch

But because we had the long drought and some of thus thought at one stage we wouldnt win anything , then we experience the thrill and pure joy of those 4 premierships and thus understandably the attitude is ,if another 2 or 3 flags have slipped through the net , then so be bit , we have had alot of joy so we are very forgiving

Yeah, nah. I just fail to see too many years (outside of the year that must not be named) where we were absolutely the best team in it. So not winning the flag in any given year when there was intense debate about who was best (or even who was at their best when the big finals rolled around) is not really hugely troubling for me.

Of course, the massive irony here is that the one flag we absolutely should have won in my lifetime was the year we went to the GF at 23-1, with an average winning margin of 40+ points across the entire season. So if anyone wants to throw around the idea of a Cats team not being 'ruthless enough', you might get some mileage out of considering that debacle. Yet that wasn't even on the watch of the current coach.

#ruthless
#coolword
#rubberyidea

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think you are like alot of "veteran " supporters , and im a tiny bit this way as well

Any club ( and basically every club in the comp has experinced this ) but when you have a long flag drought , and then you finally break that drought and have success i think the supporters are a little bit too forgiving

For example Geel won a premiership in 1963 - say then we then won one flag in the 70s and a single flag in the 80s and another flag in the 90s so there is no flag drought , then we have the 20 years of excellent performances , like we have , win an unbelievable number of games and so many PFs made - then given that scenario i think most Geel supporters would say we should have 6 flags not 4 for that outstanding 20 year patch

But because we had the long drought and some of thus thought at one stage we wouldnt win anything , then we experience the thrill and pure joy of those 4 premierships and thus understandably the attitude is ,if another 2 or 3 flags have slipped through the net , then so be bit , we have had alot of joy so we are very forgiving

I do look at Brisbane a think where is the weakness?? There is a reason they have now won b2b and made 3 consecutive grand finals in a row. They are no slouches… they are a genuine star team. They proved time and time again against the best this season they have another gear others don’t. Even that loss against GWS the amount of times they pumped the ball forward for missed opportunities you walked away knowing the better side lost.

People also forget how agonizingly close they got to a 3 peat against collingwood in 23.


We honestly punched out of our weight division this year.

There were times this season supporters rightfully so questioned if we would even make a prelim, and many tipped us bottom half of the 8.

Scott has become very good at priming the team come finals to get 100% out of them.

 

[andoman21]

Just watching the GF reply om fox...bailey smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

had some one handed efforts and didn't body the ball a few times. Danger again goes missing on the big stage.

 

[iameviljez]

Just watching the GF reply om fox...bailey smith had some one handed efforts and didn't body the ball a few times. Danger again goes missing on the big stage.

I maintain he was not well.

 

[andoman21]

I maintain he was not well.

who smith? Danger played several stinker finals against the tigers a few years back..surey not sick as well.

 

[iameviljez]

who smith? Danger played several stinker finals against the tigers a few years back..surey not sick as well.

No, Dangerfield.

He was marooned by the coaching staff up forward when it was clear we were getting smashed in the middle, the week after killing Hawthorn through the centre. It absolutely correlates with other posters reporting he was nauseated.

Not sure what you mean by "several stinkers". He was bad in the 2020 GF, but was one of our best in the other two finals vs Richmond.