Are we the worst overhead marking side in the AFL?

[lethalselbow]

How surprising is it if a Hawthorn player takes a overhead mark in a contested situation?? Hugely!! We have next to no one who can do one of the greatest aspects of watching AFL football. Our backline struggles when the ball goes in the air, with our serviceable 6 footers looking for the punch. Our midfield in the contested marking situation, too, with very few marks being shared among their ranks.

Up forward, Buddy struggles when the ball goes into the air and takes very few pack marks. While Franklin and Roughead have grabbed 14 contested marks between them up forward, our four big men (Franklin, Roughead, Hale and Renouf) have received 19 free kicks this season (mostly in marking or hit-out situations) but conceded 46 free kicks! This is an awful stat which shows that when the ball is in the air the Hawks are outclassed.

Time to bring in some youth & height to take a grab somewhere on the ground.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Not talked about much at all but spot on. We cannot take a contested overhead mark to save ourselves anywhere on the ground.

 

[Hodge2NormSmith]

Not talked about much at all but spot on. We cannot take a contested overhead mark to save ourselves anywhere on the ground.

Our best contested mark is out for the season.

Correct call, all teams work hard to get one on ones up forward with the goal of their forwards taking contested marks when isolated.

Sadly this is why atm Cloke and Dawes are more effective than Franklin and Roughead... although delivery may also be a factor.

So who is good overhead on our list?

For mid size players: Lewis, Osborne, Rioli takes some great contested grabs and that's about it.

For big guys: Roughy can but would like 2-3 a game, Stratton and from the cheap seats Lisle seems to have good hands from the Box Hill reports.

 

[Dragz]

It's because of a fascination with not actually kicking to a contest.

At the end of the day, people who can take contested marks will win you big matches.

It's one reason why I'd like Lisle up forward in the team. Pack Marks inspire the team and help win matches.

 

[QuietB]

The only thing the Hawks are worse at than marking is tackling.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

have a look at 2 incidence of hawks marking overhead in a contest on the weekend.

lewis - marks, taken out by scarlett, paid a free kick, no mark though.

mitchell marks at half back, has his arms chopped afterward and is clipped on the head, play on called



you wonder why they dont take overhead marks? because when they do it is never paid!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

have a look at 2 incidence of hawks marking overhead in a contest on the weekend.

lewis - marks, taken out by scarlett, paid a free kick, no mark though.

mitchell marks at half back, has his arms chopped afterward and is clipped on the head, play on called



you wonder why they dont take overhead marks? because when they do it is never paid!

Joking right?

Stratton is the only one with skills in this area. Look at what guys like Taylor, Lake and co have done to us in recent years.

Down back it is a real issue as the best we can hope for is a spoil.

 

[lethalselbow]

have a look at 2 incidence of hawks marking overhead in a contest on the weekend.

lewis - marks, taken out by scarlett, paid a free kick, no mark though.

mitchell marks at half back, has his arms chopped afterward and is clipped on the head, play on called



you wonder why they dont take overhead marks? because when they do it is never paid!

You can choose to look at a couple of individual incidents and pretend there isn't a massive problem.... or you can look at the overall stats and every week of football.

Cloke & Dawes: 36 Contested Marks
Hawthorn: 49 Contested Marks.

Hawthorn needs to get Schoenmakers into the team, 4 marks a game last year, and to hell with any decision making blunders he makes.

I also think Lisle needs to be given a run and see how he goes. Another tall forward option, or maybe down back on giants

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

We sure are Mr Elbow, and, Silent one you are also correct.

We lack the big bodied players with the strength to both lay and break tackles. Chappie must count off the days between Geelong and Hawthorn Matches.

It is almost as if aerial marking is a dirty word at Hawthorn. One could say - but I won't - that Geelong won the game with the vital contested overhead marks by their defence.

Mark the ball, you own it. Punching it puts the ball in dispute and plays into the hands of opposition teams that employ the forward press.

Keep thinking gals and guys we have several more deficiencies that are never identified on this board.

Oh, and I have no doubt that the statistcs fanatics will post their usual selective goobly gook in an attempt to obfuscate the issue.

 

[Hawk-in-syd]

With zone defence you need someone with the ability to take a contested mark. It's why we stuff around with it so much in the back half because we have no confidence in anyone to take a mark. Lisle has to come in. We need someone on each line with the ability to take a pack mark.

And if I see buddy skirting around the back of the pack like a girl again I'll scream for christ sake jump AT the ball, knee up and smash the third man minimum. At least make a contest and bring it to ground. The only person buddys hurt in a marking contest was boyle.

Oh yea and defenders if you can get both hands to the ball to double fist it mark the ball FFS.

 

[lethalselbow]

Oh yea and defenders if you can get both hands to the ball to double fist it mark the ball FFS.

Yep. There are a few in our backline who don't have the confidence to mark a football, even one their own!

 

[dommat]

Without Stratton in the team, I'd have to say we are pretty close.

 

[The Kipster]

Without Stratton in the team, I'd have to say we are pretty close.

x 2, I think we are...even the lower clubs have players that can mark the ball..

how frustrating is it to see, 3 defenders go up to spoil and the opposition crumb and goal...where as Taylor and Co. were marking in the back half..

meh, our game plan sucks

 

[HolyRioli]

Renouf has gotten better at this in the last year or so. Probably our best at it at the moment with Stratton out.

 

[Hawk-in-syd]

Renouf has gotten better at this in the last year or so. Probably our best at it at the moment with Stratton out.

Yea his marking has improved heaps, just a shame he has about the worst disposal in the league.

 

[Cynic]

Renouf has gotten better at this in the last year or so. Probably our best at it at the moment with Stratton out.

Yes but it would be nice if he didn't subsequently;

A - Kick it to an opposition player
B - Handball it to a stationery Hawks player surrounded by opposition players

On topic yes by a far margin.

 

[burner1]

Its a huge issue down back at present - we are consistently under the pump as we never take a contested mark and relieve the pressure (balls always punched and remains in dispute). Even when free our defenders seem to punch. Its no wonder by the last quarter are defenders are stuffed as have to continually work so hard.

Same issue through the middle - never easily cut off opposition attacks from hb its always a ground ball contest if we even manage to get a fist in. Partly from having short midfielders and lacking a dominant ruckman with presence around the ground.

The body work of our forwards at present is terrible - geelong's defenders smashed us in a contest, even one-out - I'm not sure if they're getting the wrong instructions or its partly an issue that our forwards never get any real competiton at training.

 

[Milkman_Joe]

Its a huge issue down back at present - we are consistently under the pump as we never take a contested mark and relieve the pressure (balls always punched and remains in dispute). Even when free our defenders seem to punch. Its no wonder by the last quarter are defenders are stuffed as have to continually work so hard.

Same issue through the middle - never easily cut off opposition attacks from hb its always a ground ball contest if we even manage to get a fist in. Partly from having short midfielders and lacking a dominant ruckman with presence around the ground.

The body work of our forwards at present is terrible - geelong's defenders smashed us in a contest, even one-out - I'm not sure if they're getting the wrong instructions or its partly an issue that our forwards never get any real competiton at training.

Agreed. It was no coincidence when Geelong had their mini run on in the third term, we did not take a single mark. Whilst watching Harry Taylor do it with ease at the other end was painful to watch.

 

[Flag08]

Is it just me or are we a team of short people? I don't think this helps our marking ability or lack thereof.

Can someone who has more time on their hands than I please "do the math" on that one??


Thanks.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I just had a flashback to that contested overhead mark that Jack Watts took against 3 of our defenders. Jack Watts...

Agree Flag08 - we do look quite undersized on the field both in height terms but also what stood out to me on the weekend was that we don't have many strong bodies running around any more who can impose physical presence at the contest. That is why I am surprised Puopolo has not been getting games as he can hit the contest hard.

 

[Roby]

We get smashed in this department all the time, but we can't dominate every statistic.

It's obvious we have recruited for players who are good users of the ball, rather than tall players who win contested ball or marks.

 

[col44]

As previously said, we have recruited good ball users.. clearly with our coaches who are all 5'3 contested marking is not a priority. (Our ruck coach doesnt count)

I disagree though with many here about our backs.. yes there are some awesome defenders who grab everything in their way but our backs are getting the job done, though clearly Stratton was a massive loss.

My biggest gripe is seeing our 'quality ball users' bombing 55m into the forward line to an outnumbered forward who is calling for it while standing still. If we want to play the skill game, where the hell are the lead up forwards?? We can't have no forwards capable of taking a pack mark and no-one prepared to run directly at the kicker.

I hope one of the dwarfs running the show can ask Lance to jump at the footy instead of standing there with arms down hoping for a free. If he's not prepared to jump and crash the packs thats fine but he must then be leading at the footy all day. At the moment he seems reluctant to lead outside of scoring range and would rather gesture to kick it long. I want Buddy (who IS the most dangerous player in the AFL) to play more like Riewoldt (either version) and less like Eddie Betts because he's better than all of them.

I hate to say it but we miss a lead up full forward - in the box -that Willo gave us for a few years.

Apart from Sewell we are looking a bit soft this year (Rioli is an exception because he is untouchable) and I'm not a fan.

With a tough draw ahead I'm hoping the mongrel in the boys comes out and the footy again becomes the number 1 priority, then in turn the pack marks will come.