Are young key defenders the new young ruckmen?

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Historically, we've seen clubs take a cautious and somewhat impatient approach when it comes to the selection and maintenance of young ruckmen. We've seen talented young ruck prospects slide in the draft (e.g. Brodie Grundy, Sam Hayes) and talented young ruck prospects moved on quite early (e.g. Sam Jacobs, Ivan Maric, Jarrod Witts, Stefan Martin), with a number of clubs playing a #1 ruckman that was not solely developed by them (Adelaide, Brisbane, Geelong, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda, Sydney, West Coast and the Western Bulldogs, off the top of my head). Generally, this was attributed to the lengthy, resource-heavy and risk-laden process of developing a ruckman, with clubs often preferring or being forced to poach a ruckman from elsewhere.

Lately, I believe we've seen a trend towards giving key position defenders less time to prove themselves at the top level. Over the past few days we've seen the delistings of Kieran Collins and Hugh Goddard, two highly-rated key defenders not long out of the draft that for varying reasons haven't developed as expected. Go further back and we find the delisting of Joel Hamling, who went on to win a premiership in different colours and is now playing some excellent football for a third club. We saw Fremantle move on from Sam Collins quite quickly, who now appears back in the draft frame. So on and so forth. Similarly, we've seen a number of KPDs recruited from other teams in recent years - for example, James Frawley, Joel Hamling, Lachie Henderson, Nathan Brown, Lynden Dunn and Logan Austin - as well as a rise of mature-aged recruits in this position.

It has made me wonder whether this is a coincidence, or a true trend of recruitment rationale based on the way the modern game is being played.

So, what do you think - (1) has this been a shift in approach, or has it always been this way? (2) If you think it has changed or is changing, what do you think are some of the factors contributing to it?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Apart from Davis who was specifically targeted as a long term captain, all if ours are home grown. So I'm not seeing it.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I think the quality expected in this draft is causing clubs to want more picks.

In addition, many teams with a focus on short term success are churning in the hope of finding some draft steals.

Lastly, the Richmond, 'we only have one key forward' success model, now adopted by many clubs, means clubs need fewer key defenders on their lists...

 

[Damon_3388]

I think in general, footy clubs are pretty impatient with any type of player development, not realising that most players are 5-6 years away from really reaching their physical prime when drafted. With the increased physical demands of the game now, most players of all types will take a number of years to develop the fitness and strength required to be an AFL footballer.

An U/21s national league may have greater value than a reserves league, in terms of affording young players the time and patience needed to develop to an AFL standard.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Historically, we've seen clubs take a cautious and somewhat impatient approach when it comes to the selection and maintenance of young ruckmen. We've seen talented young ruck prospects slide in the draft (e.g. Brodie Grundy, Sam Hayes) and talented young ruck prospects moved on quite early (e.g. Sam Jacobs, Ivan Maric, Jarrod Witts, Stefan Martin), with a number of clubs playing a #1 ruckman that was not solely developed by them (Adelaide, Brisbane, Geelong, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, Port Adelaide, Richmond, St Kilda, Sydney, West Coast and the Western Bulldogs, off the top of my head). Generally, this was attributed to the lengthy, resource-heavy and risk-laden process of developing a ruckman, with clubs often preferring or being forced to poach a ruckman from elsewhere.

Lately, I believe we've seen a trend towards giving key position defenders less time to prove themselves at the top level. Over the past few days we've seen the delistings of Kieran Collins and Hugh Goddard, two highly-rated key defenders not long out of the draft that for varying reasons haven't developed as expected. Go further back and we find the delisting of Joel Hamling, who went on to win a premiership in different colours and is now playing some excellent football for a third club. We saw Fremantle move on from Sam Collins quite quickly, who now appears back in the draft frame. So on and so forth. Similarly, we've seen a number of KPDs recruited from other teams in recent years - for example, James Frawley, Joel Hamling, Lachie Henderson, Nathan Brown, Lynden Dunn and Logan Austin - as well as a rise of mature-aged recruits in this position.

It has made me wonder whether this is a coincidence, or a true trend of recruitment rationale based on the way the modern game is being played.

So, what do you think - (1) has this been a shift in approach, or has it always been this way? (2) If you think it has changed or is changing, what do you think are some of the factors contributing to it?

Hamling was unfortunate.

Stuck behind Taylor, Lonergan, Rivers. Then Henderson, and Kolodjashnij showed some good form very early on.
He was right to move, we were stacked at the time.

 

[SumTingWong]

I think the quality expected in this draft is causing clubs to want more picks.

In addition, many teams with a focus on short term success are churning in the hope of finding some draft steals.

Lastly, the Richmond, 'we only have one key forward' success model, now adopted by many clubs, means clubs need fewer key defenders on their lists...

You'll need at least 2 next year

 

[HairyO]

You'll need at least 2 next year

Which 2 playing against the Swans are we going to lose at the end of the year?

Or are you saying Richmond are going to have a 30 goal a year player in Lynch?

 

[juss]

Then who are the new young key defenders?

 

[andrewb]

I just think the expectations on key defenders have changed. With the advent of the press it is no longer a position where you hide your lower skilled types like a Spud Frawley or Mick Martyns. Key defenders in modern footy need to have supremely reliable foot skills, need to be able to kick more than 50m, need a great set of hands, be prepared to zone off their man, be brave enough to back into oncoming forwards, be creative and work well under pressure. Completely different role to what it was 10-15 years ago

 

[Taylor]

Key defender is the easiest position on the ground to slot in a supremely athletic tall without football ability. As long as he is fast enough to catch up to his forward on the lead he can follow him anywhere and beat him with a spoil, strong enough to retake the prime position in a contest and spoil.

I can see why they would get cycled through.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

No.

Good KPD are going a lot earlier and in trades, mature KPD are attracting higher picks and salary.

It used to be that you could build a defensive strategy around gun defenders, now we see clubs building attacking strategies. Intercept players who can either run the ball or kick are incredibly valuable, given the premium put on goals kicked from turnovers.

Lever, McGovern etc. also had an impact early in their career. NN is maybe unique in the age he played and dominated in the ruck, most take years.

 

[Benji85]

Heard Paul Roo's say that when you rebuild you "start your build from the back". I assume with so many clubs in a rebuild phase, or looking to rebuild they are a bit more valuable at the moment

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I love it when there are "new versions" of things.

 

[LeverPuller]

I think it’s a wrinkle created by the Giants. Sam Frost, Caleb Marchbank and Lachie Plowman are all ex-GWS KPDs. Given the relatively shallow value they were given up for, I think it’s caused a market drop over the last few years. As such we have seen Hamling, Dunn, Austin and even Howe have relatively low value due to low demand.

It’s a real dichotomy argument too. There are very few of what I would call ‘midprice’ defenders. They are either expensive in both contract and trade (Lever, McGovern) or cheap (Dunn, Hamling). You don’t find much in the way of key backs running out for $450k.

I suspect it will get worse too. You can’t just be a big mug who can punch the ball anymore.

 

[go you pups]

Good thread, agree

I think it’s a wrinkle created by the Giants. Sam Frost, Caleb Marchbank and Lachie Plowman are all ex-GWS KPDs. Given the relatively shallow value they were given up for, I think it’s caused a market drop over the last few years. As such we have seen Hamling, Dunn, Austin and even Howe have relatively low value due to low demand.

It’s a real dichotomy argument too. There are very few of what I would call ‘midprice’ defenders. They are either expensive in both contract and trade (Lever, McGovern) or cheap (Dunn, Hamling). You don’t find much in the way of key backs running out for $450k.

I suspect it will get worse too. You can’t just be a big mug who can punch the ball anymore.

Yep, I'd say someone like Jonas or Stewart is probably going to enter that Lever/McGovern high end mid range type too

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I can only understand something if it's likened to something else.

Like, I couldn't get my head around the idea of a dog. Until someone explained that a dog was the new version of a small horse.

Threads like this preserve that kind of ancient wisdom.