Employment Arrogance at work...

Rooz90

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Thread starter #1
Okay folks i need some words of wisdom.

I'm a trainee at a start up business within the building insurance sector. I'm progressively learning and doing what i can to do well. We are a small business 4-5 people. I work with construction managers who are relatively approachable expect for ONE.

Because most of the CM's are on the road I'm often back at the office alone to do whatever work is left more me or work through a list.
This one particular CM just does not take kindly to me at all, is always snappy and arrogant when answering my questions that i have which are work related, and because i'm learning i have to ask.

One on one he just does not respond to anything i say, doesn't acknowledge me, doesn't say hello and just proceeds to be quiet.

Today i had to do a webinar on his behalf on work related process, i got as much of it down pat but because it relates to work and as a Jnr if i tell him what to do i fear/know hell dismiss me and belittle me about asking him to do said things.

So what do you do, how do you approach this whilst waiting for a smartass. arrogant response which will JUST defeat me?


PS I've told the other CM about him and he tends to agree that he doesn't seem to quiet trust him yet, he's advised me to keep reading him and see what he does. Funny thing is when both CM and director are in the office he becomes Mr Nice guy and sucks ass.
 

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#2
Its an unfortunate situation- there seems to be one person like that in most workplaces. You could do one of two things- kill him with kindness and be super nice and friendly to him (even though you dont really mean it) and then he will start to think about how he is treating you or just come out and ask him in front of other people why you are so rude and an arsehole to him. Dont do it 1 on 1 - do it in front of others so you have witnesses. I have worked with people like that and apart from work issues- I totally ignore them, dont acknowledge them and definitely dont respect them. Bottom line and its easy to say but hard to do- have the attitude of being mentally stronger and not letting his bullying effect you- hard at times. Bottom line its a job and you go home at 5 and dont have to live with him- imagine his poor partner
 
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#3
Ah the good ol FIGJAM's.

In all seriousness I ignore these people when possible. We have one at work who thinks he is amazing and has walked the fine line a few times with his remarks and comments to both other races and genders.

When he starts to ark up I just tell him there's the door bud when we are in the staffroom or just "Too far".

He has been spoken to HR a few times, but yet to receive a written warning IIRC.
 

Rooz90

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Thread starter #4
Thanks for the responses;

Yesterday one of the managers saw first hand the sort of verbal exchanges i would have with him and acknowledged what i had go through.

Lunchtime approached and i went to get lunch, which left my manager and this supervisor alone. I didn't know that my manager was going to say something, but he did. He didn't mention my name but just said politely " Is everything alright with you and Rooz90..."

Apparently nothing was wrong and he was all good on his end.

He did confront me later during the day and said " Are we alright" i said "yeah of course.. why" acting like i didn't know a chat had taken place.

I don't know how to feel, if he can see between the lines and figure out i said something god know how much worse he'll be one on one when others aren't around.

Treading lightly on this one.
 

Rooz90

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Thread starter #5
Ok so I stood up for myself yesterday at work!

Told this cu n.. to give me a break because I’m doing the best I can and I’m learning!

I can’t read this bloke at all, which is why I don’t ask questions or ask for help, I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

He stormed off and said “I’m done with you” freaked me out a little.

He returned minutes later and ranted how I shouldn’t talk over him, not be defensive and abrupt. Made me feel like shit, like I wasn’t doing enough for him, the business and workloads. What am I meant to do when I’m consistently left alone with no training and guidance.

He believes I should be doing a lot more than what I do now!! Wtf keep in mind I earn much, much less than him. His weeks salary is my months salary (if not more)

Really made me feel like I wasn’t doing much, which I find untrue. I do the best I can with resources I have.

Conversation/argument ended with him leaving... shook my hand (I think to smooth it out) because if the other workers found out could mean his true colours are shown.

Feeling terrified going work Monday and doing some of his paper work (things I do anyway for others too)

What do I do???!


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ShanDog

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Ok so I stood up for myself yesterday at work!

Told this cu n.. to give me a break because I’m doing the best I can and I’m learning!

I can’t read this bloke at all, which is why I don’t ask questions or ask for help, I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

He stormed off and said “I’m done with you” freaked me out a little.

He returned minutes later and ranted how I shouldn’t talk over him, not be defensive and abrupt. Made me feel like shit, like I wasn’t doing enough for him, the business and workloads. What am I meant to do when I’m consistently left alone with no training and guidance.

He believes I should be doing a lot more than what I do now!! Wtf keep in mind I earn much, much less than him. His weeks salary is my months salary (if not more)

Really made me feel like I wasn’t doing much, which I find untrue. I do the best I can with resources I have.

Conversation/argument ended with him leaving... shook my hand (I think to smooth it out) because if the other workers found out could mean his true colours are shown.

Feeling terrified going work Monday and doing some of his paper work (things I do anyway for others too)

What do I do???!


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Feel for you - everyone's probably had similar work situations like this where someone creates a toxic environment and it just makes everything harder.

Seems like you have two simultaneous issues with this person: 1. Their expectations, and 2. Their attitude.

For the first problem, the best advice I can give from my own experience is to make sure your house is in order as much as possible - be critical of what you are doing, where you can improve and understand exactly where you aren't meeting either your own or the others person's expectations. Once you have that clear in your mind, you are working from a place of strength because not only do you know what you're doing well but you know the places you need to improve (and everyone had them if we are honest with ourselves). This helps you negotiate your way forward and relates to the second problem.

Regarding the attitude, you can't do anything but stand up for yourself against the person whenever there is an issue. It's hard to talk specifics when I'm not a fly on the wall, but basically you can either accept that the other person is a jerk and not care (which is standing up for yourself because you aren't trying to please them) or confront each time they are being unreasonable. "Don't talk over me" is a bullshit thing - you aren't in the military and you don't have ranks of some kind. If you're having an animated discussion or argument, of course people cut each other off sometimes. If he can't handle that he needs to grow up. Being senior in the workplace means you have greater responsibility not greater rights to respect. Either he treats you with the basic level of respect we afford every other human or he can get ******. Of course, this confrontational method can either placate everything when he sees you aren't a pushover or it can blow things up, which is why I suggested having everything very clear about your performance earlier. Because if he pulls that card you can be damn clear about what you are doing and that youre really trying to learn, which puts the onus back on him to mentor like he should be. And if he complains to the bosses, again you will have solid backing to explain why his shit isn't acceptable.

Not everyone likes the "fight" and that's understandable. If you're concerned I'd suggest ensuring you have a plan B for employment if it's possible before really pushing back. Otherwise you risk cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Good luck! Nobody deserves to be treated like shit because they are the newbie.
 

Rooz90

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Thread starter #7
I need to toughen up and just tell my bosses I want to resign.

While this is my only source of income, I'm worried how long it will be to find a new job. I have savings and raining day monies but worried about how this will look on my CV.
 

craigos

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#8
I need to toughen up and just tell my bosses I want to resign.

While this is my only source of income, I'm worried how long it will be to find a new job. I have savings and raining day monies but worried about how this will look on my CV.
With the other CM's go to them and ask them for some feedback because you want to make sure you're progressing well. Compare there answers and see if they line up with the guy you're having issues with.

Also, just tell him you're not going to continue to work in partnership with him until he talks to you like another adult and not one of his children. Guaranteed this bloke gets his balls busted at home and unfortunately you're wearing the blowback of that.

Document everything. There are anti bullying laws etc and your workplace can get in some trouble if you report it to them and they continue to let it happen.
 

Rooz90

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Thread starter #9
With the other CM's go to them and ask them for some feedback because you want to make sure you're progressing well. Compare there answers and see if they line up with the guy you're having issues with.

Also, just tell him you're not going to continue to work in partnership with him until he talks to you like another adult and not one of his children. Guaranteed this bloke gets his balls busted at home and unfortunately you're wearing the blowback of that.

Document everything. There are anti bullying laws etc and your workplace can get in some trouble if you report it to them and they continue to let it happen.
That's what on of my other CM's has said. He believes he cops it at home which is why is behaviour is the way it is. He has heard from previous employees he has had that he is a hothead and doesn't know how to talk to staff.

My CM does think I'm doing okay considering i'm left alone in an office with no human interaction, guidance, training you name it. But understands if i want to leave. I don't think relaying what he does to me would make a difference he'll continue to be a C***.

I would rather not do any of his work, follow anything up for him or have anything to do with him. Funnily enough since his 'outburst' happened he has stopped working entirely from the office (when he needs to) and only comes in to drop things off and go. Even though i need people around I DONT NEED HIS PRESENCE as soon as he comes in i freak.

I have bad anxiety and generally when anxiety hit i get depressed and really lack motivation.

It time to find or surround myself with genuine people that are willing to help.
 

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#10
Ok so I stood up for myself yesterday at work!

Told this cu n.. to give me a break because I’m doing the best I can and I’m learning!

I can’t read this bloke at all, which is why I don’t ask questions or ask for help, I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

He stormed off and said “I’m done with you” freaked me out a little.

He returned minutes later and ranted how I shouldn’t talk over him, not be defensive and abrupt. Made me feel like shit, like I wasn’t doing enough for him, the business and workloads. What am I meant to do when I’m consistently left alone with no training and guidance.

He believes I should be doing a lot more than what I do now!! Wtf keep in mind I earn much, much less than him. His weeks salary is my months salary (if not more)

Really made me feel like I wasn’t doing much, which I find untrue. I do the best I can with resources I have.

Conversation/argument ended with him leaving... shook my hand (I think to smooth it out) because if the other workers found out could mean his true colours are shown.

Feeling terrified going work Monday and doing some of his paper work (things I do anyway for others too)

What do I do???!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
It sounds like workplace bullying.

O'Brien Group Catering.

I find it hard to name a worse employer in 40 years.

Workplace bullying is rife @ Suncorp Stadium.

Simon is in your face yelling even when you are not anywhere near the issue.

Karl backs him up when he hasn't been near your outlet in weeks and would have little idea what is happening in that area.

Then you contend with the one (Jacinta) in control of rostering her chosen few and having zero respect for loyalty, longevity & hours worked without pay.

Have fun, one of the worst companies I've ever worked for.
 

TheMightyEagles

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#11
It sounds like workplace bullying.

O'Brien Group Catering.

I find it hard to name a worse employer in 40 years.

Workplace bullying is rife @ Suncorp Stadium.

Simon is in your face yelling even when you are not anywhere near the issue.

Karl backs him up when he hasn't been near your outlet in weeks and would have little idea what is happening in that area.

Then you contend with the one (Jacinta) in control of rostering her chosen few and having zero respect for loyalty, longevity & hours worked without pay.

Have fun, one of the worst companies I've ever worked for.
Scampi, Glancy and Perk. Better known as the Three Stooges.
 

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Mootsy

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#14
Unfortunately, people can be pretty complex in this regard. Now often this can come from good people experiencing high-stress volumes in their positions and their personality has reacted in such a way, that they can become quite arrogant and political, however, the context is, that they have experienced a lot of psychological pain, now someone with an ego will react by being arrogant and having less tolerance, this could be because they have been burnt so many times in past experiences in the business environment. Hence, this can be where behaviour like this comes from. It's actually good in terms of the person pushing through difficult situations, but can be bad in terms of the mental side of it, if there is no self-analysis going on.

Some people go in the opposite direction and become more supportive and helpful, but they don't have the ego to undertake high responsibility tasks, because they don't believe in themselves as much as the person with higher ego does.

So you're looking at a situation where the person is probably unhappy in some way, has likely had to deal with a fair bit of stress or doesn't know how to handle the stress of operations and tasks and just has no tolerance, but the key is they are just very miserable. People have a level of threshold that varies from person to person, depending on their experiences.

So the arrogance often comes from how their ego works and it can come from extraversion or introversion, and variations on that.

Y'know, so there are reasons why people end up like that. Life and work can be hard, and mentally as well, this is likely where the personality and communication problems are made.

A person good at self-analysis and admitting weakness, can do things like, change to part-time, or can see that they can't handle it anymore, so make the change pretty quickly until they find a happier space that works for them. The problem is if the person stays in this situation for too long without getting any councilling help or medical help or any support. It's like never attending to a wound, it'll get worse over time. It's the same with mental health problems.

Mental health problems are often disguised well by arrogant egotistical types of personalities because they can command a social group setting quite easily. But underneath the facade, they are in a bad way. This can be the same for people who never progress which is another angle on it. The problem is there, and will only change if the person knows and then addresses the problem, otherwise, it's a rinse and repeat cycle every single year.

But, y'know, this is capitalism, we live in a time of narcissistic capitalism, hence the culture and people often mirrors how capitalism is behaving as a whole.

If you were to analyse behaviour of workers in the 1990s compared to the 2010's, i think it would be very interesting reading.
 
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Sometimes people spend all day fixing the problems of actual idiots that when they interact with someone who is supposed to not be, they hold them at a higher standard.
 

Mootsy

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Sometimes people spend all day fixing the problems of actual idiots that when they interact with someone who is supposed to not be, they hold them at a higher standard.
As long as you're trying and communicating some input and providing a bit of approachable support, you're doing well!
 
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#18
It sounds like something that should clearly be within the responsibilities of whoever looks after your HR. Granted there's probably not a huge team in this sort of organisation, but there must be someone (hopefully a bit removed from the situation so the can make an independent call) who looks after recruitment, exit interviews and hopefully the general happiness of staff.

It sounds like this person's conduct and general attitude is widely known. HR would be obligated to ask a few people about what they've seen as well as the two parties at the centre of the conflict and choose a course of action from there.
 
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#19
Ignoring my stupid earlier posts I've experienced similar issues at work.

In my personal opinion, the best way is to approach it as a learning experience. I'll respectfully disagree with others' advice to think about it from the lens of workplace bullying. Let's make no qualms about it, his behaviour does constitute bullying in the eyes of the law (and that is helpful to know so you feel less powerless over the situation - he needs to watch himself). But it's unhelpful to pathologise normal, albeit unhealthy, human interaction. You want to see yourself as the victor and the bigger man in the situation, not the victim.

As you go through the ranks and grow as a leader - wherever life may take you - people are going to criticise and act unreasonably towards you. Honestly it only gets tougher. Look at leaders like Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten (or even Donald Trump and Theresa May). Putting aside whatever you may think about their brand of politics, they cop it from all angles everyday. The reason they're able to deal with it is the skills they've learnt over a lifetime.

Right now I'd imagine that your career goals are to (1) gain experience, (2) stay employed and (3) move in the career direction that you want.

From what you've told us about yourself, you sound like a person who is competent, motivated, analytical, responsible and resilient. Unless the leaders in your organisation are complete morons, they'll want to keep you within their organisation and develop your skills. The fact that the other CM's have a quiet laugh with you about him, shows you that they see this in you (and also that you have a bit more political capital than you realise).

Keep doing what you're doing. Try to put your work in writing to him and be careful about crafting the right message. Call him out, while remaining calm, when he goes off the reservation. Try to work with the other CMs and build relationships with them. Look for opportunities to work with them more regularly. Always keep your ear to the ground for new opportunities.

Escalate the situation with the appropriate people in your organisation if the situation becomes untenable. But try to exercise judgment in how you approach this. Everytime you pull this card you expend a bit of your political capital (but its sometimes necessary - frankly you need to do more of this as you become more experienced and senior in your organisation). Also HR is not your saviour - their job is ultimately to protect the organisation and it can sometimes throw fuel onto the fire.
 
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