Arsenal FC: Out of control

WealstoneRaider

Cancelled
10k Posts I reneged on a bet or agreement :(
Apr 8, 2015
17,469
9,803
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Can see both sides of the argument on this. The entitlement from arsenal fans comes from the fact their club is an establishment one, probably considered the third biggest and most successful in England overall. The clubs put up in comparison (Villa, Forest, Leeds and of course Sunderland) are not historically as big and lauded as Arsenal. I can completely understand how fans of those clubs look on in disdain though considering how much further they’ve fallen. The real frustration from arsenal fans comes from the fact it is obvious the club has gone stale, and this precedent of letting the manager continue would not happen at their immediate rivals who they consider themselves on an equal footing
 
Sep 29, 2007
31,610
20,995
The Kop
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Socceroos-LFC-Crows-Adel.United
I find funny all these ex great players like giggs,Keane,henry etc. Think its so easy to just manage a club straight after they retire.

Henry would be a spectacular failure like giggs wiil be, but their ego's have them believe otherwise.
 

PendlePie

Cancelled
Sep 30, 2007
6,451
4,770
Australia
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal FC
If your club isn't being run right you have every right to complain imo.

Another club in a worse position doesn't lessen that right in any way.

Arsenal supporters haven't been listened to for close to a decade if not more. So of course the disquiet is going to get more dramatic and entrenched.

This. Can’t believe the rubbish I’ve read the last page or so.
 
I still can't believe that no one has been able to explain how this "It's all relative" rubbish even applies to a club that has been incredibly consistent over the last decade give or take a few league places.
 

jd2010

Well done boys. Good process, carry on
Feb 1, 2010
38,572
19,636
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur, Brentford FC
I've got to say the fall from grace from Arsenal is on par with that of Hull and Sunderland. No offence but those clubs at best this century as relegation survivors and somewhat yo-yo clubs. So them falling to league one isn't a massive surprise. The gap between 13th and 60th in the football league isn't that massive off the pitch and clubs are always moving within that range. The fall from 1st and CL threat to 6th-7th is on par with that
 
Jun 7, 2007
34,395
42,756
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur
Can see both sides of the argument on this. The entitlement from arsenal fans comes from the fact their club is an establishment one, probably considered the third biggest and most successful in England overall. The clubs put up in comparison (Villa, Forest, Leeds and of course Sunderland) are not historically as big and lauded as Arsenal. I can completely understand how fans of those clubs look on in disdain though considering how much further they’ve fallen. The real frustration from arsenal fans comes from the fact it is obvious the club has gone stale, and this precedent of letting the manager continue would not happen at their immediate rivals who they consider themselves on an equal footing
Hopefully they will get to see their club in the Leeds, Villa, Sunderland situation
 

jd2010

Well done boys. Good process, carry on
Feb 1, 2010
38,572
19,636
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur, Brentford FC
Put it this way it'd shock me more for Man City to be closer to relegation than the league title in 10 years time than it would Bournemouth or Swansea being league one or two
 

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
8,379
17,197
Tigris River
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Baghdad Bombers
Can see both sides of the argument on this. The entitlement from arsenal fans comes from the fact their club is an establishment one, probably considered the third biggest and most successful in England overall. The clubs put up in comparison (Villa, Forest, Leeds and of course Sunderland) are not historically as big and lauded as Arsenal. I can completely understand how fans of those clubs look on in disdain though considering how much further they’ve fallen. The real frustration from arsenal fans comes from the fact it is obvious the club has gone stale, and this precedent of letting the manager continue would not happen at their immediate rivals who they consider themselves on an equal footing

Leeds and Villa certainly have the pedigree, history and in Leeds case, support, to at least be in the same conversation as Arsenal. This relative bullshit *s me off because it detracts from the main issue I have, and that is Arsenal fans crying about their club supposedly going down the drain despite massive evidence to the contrary. I'm sure when Villa stagnated under Lerner that they wouldn't be telling him to * off if he dropped 60 million on a world class striker in January and won 3 FA Cups in 4 years whilst also being able to continue to play in Europe. Some clubs are to big to fail for long and Arsenal is definitely in that category. They'll only drop out of the top 6 if clubs like Everton pull their finger out (which doesn't look likely).

For context, look at the Milan clubs. It looked like they'd be set to dominate Europe for years. Instead they drop out of the UCL spots in Italy and stagnate whilst Juventus, Napoli and Roma surpass them. Now they're on the rise again. Ditto Valencia in Spain being usurped by Atletico and Sevilla or Marseille in France with PSG, Lyon and Monaco.
 
Leeds and Villa certainly have the pedigree, history and in Leeds case, support, to at least be in the same conversation as Arsenal. This relative bullshit ****s me off because it detracts from the main issue I have, and that is Arsenal fans crying about their club supposedly going down the drain despite massive evidence to the contrary. I'm sure when Villa stagnated under Lerner that they wouldn't be telling him to **** off if he dropped 60 million on a world class striker in January and won 3 FA Cups in 4 years whilst also being able to continue to play in Europe. Some clubs are to big to fail for long and Arsenal is definitely in that category. They'll only drop out of the top 6 if clubs like Everton pull their finger out (which doesn't look likely).

For context, look at the Milan clubs. It looked like they'd be set to dominate Europe for years. Instead they drop out of the UCL spots in Italy and stagnate whilst Juventus, Napoli and Roma surpass them. Now they're on the rise again. Ditto Valencia in Spain being usurped by Atletico and Sevilla or Marseille in France with PSG, Lyon and Monaco.
I can understand one part of their incessant whinging. Wanting the manager replaced.
Their performances aren't good enough under Wenger. He most certainly is underachieving. Don't agree with pockets of their fanbase trying to hound him out though.

All this talk about the club being rooted, ****ed or dead. Go do one.
All this gloating about finishing top 4 but now the shoe is on the other foot it means nothing. Go do one.
All this talk about not giving a s**t about winning the FA Cup as it saves Wenger for the axe... "I don't want the FA Cup Robbie, I don't want the Europa League, Robbie...I want the Premier League, Robbie"... "I want the Champions League, Robbie". Go do one.
This. Can’t believe the rubbish I’ve read the last page or so.
Agreed. Reading the all relative nonsense has truly been rubbish.
"relatively" you've got it good and to suggest otherwise absolutely reeks of entitlement. I mean * me dead you're having a shocking season yet are guaranteed to play in Europe next season even if you were relegated. Leicester and Burnley are in a dogfight to try and earn a hard fought yet rarely achieved foray into European football. Why is that btw? It's by performing well in a comp most of your fans (and that of many clubs) treat with contempt.

The relative argument comes across as "I follow Arsenal, Arsenal are a big club that BELONG in the Champions League". No you don't. Do you not see how entitled that comes across?
 
I can understand one part of their incessant whinging. Wanting the manager replaced.
Their performances aren't good enough under Wenger. He most certainly is underachieving. Don't agree with pockets of their fanbase trying to hound him out though.

All this talk about the club being rooted, ****** or dead. Go do one.
All this gloating about finishing top 4 but now the shoe is on the other foot it means nothing. Go do one.
All this talk about not giving a s**t about winning the FA Cup as it saves Wenger for the axe... "I don't want the FA Cup Robbie, I don't want the Europa League, Robbie...I want the Premier League, Robbie"... "I want the Champions League, Robbie". Go do one.

Agreed. Reading the all relative nonsense has truly been rubbish.
"relatively" you've got it good and to suggest otherwise absolutely reeks of entitlement. I mean **** me dead you're having a shocking season yet are guaranteed to play in Europe next season even if you were relegated. Leicester and Burnley are in a dogfight to try and earn a hard fought yet rarely achieved foray into European football. Why is that btw? It's by performing well in a comp most of your fans (and that of many clubs) treat with contempt.

The relative argument comes across as "I follow Arsenal, Arsenal are a big club that BELONG in the Champions League". No you don't. Do you not see how entitled that comes across?
I've never agreed with you more you beautiful man.
 
It's not entitlement being pissed off your club goes from title challenger to 4th challenger to closer to relegation to title challenging all under the stewardship of one man
You say that as if they're genuinely in a relegation battle and not just copping an amazing City side.
 

GinTonic

Cancelled
Feb 23, 2018
649
1,435
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal
The irony is, that certain posters, by comparing Arsenal's "crisis" to that of other clubs, by definition made the discussion relative (one arguing that it isn't, the other that it is) When I and other posters pointed that out, they cried foul.

Pretty funny.
 
Last edited:

WealstoneRaider

Cancelled
10k Posts I reneged on a bet or agreement :(
Apr 8, 2015
17,469
9,803
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Maybe arsenal fans just want a change, 21 years is a looong time and they are regressing year by year. I like to think the more clued up Goona’s don’t see it as an entitlement to finish top four (no team has an automatic right) but are at the point where they feel a change has to happen as it’s the same old mistakes happening. Can you really blame them for that? 3 FA cups in this down period does cloud the issue though admittedly, but they are undoubtedly falling behind the rest of the big six
 

jd2010

Well done boys. Good process, carry on
Feb 1, 2010
38,572
19,636
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur, Brentford FC
You say that as if they're genuinely in a relegation battle and not just copping an amazing City side.
They're actually closer to being an Everton mid table club than a force like city right now. From there anything can happen. I genuinely believe that

It's entitlement if they remained like this after Wenger left and this sort of thing was the new normal. Right now their frustration isn't entitlement but a cry for change
 
The irony is, that certain posters, by comparing Arsenal's "crisis" to that of other clubs, by definition made the discussion relative (one arguing that it isn't, the other that it is) When I and other posters pointed that out, they cried foul.

Pretty funny.
Care to answer my question then?
 

GinTonic

Cancelled
Feb 23, 2018
649
1,435
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal
They're actually closer to being an Everton mid table club than a force like city right now. From there anything can happen. I genuinely believe that

It's entitlement if they remained like this after Wenger left and this sort of thing was the new normal. Right now their frustration isn't entitlement but a cry for change
Can't believe I'm agreeing with a spurs fan, but you've hit the nail on the head.
 

PendlePie

Cancelled
Sep 30, 2007
6,451
4,770
Australia
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Arsenal FC
Maybe arsenal fans just want a change, 21 years is a looong time and they are regressing year by year. I like to think the more clued up Goona’s don’t see it as an entitlement to finish top four (no team has an automatic right) but are at the point where they feel a change has to happen as it’s the same old mistakes happening. Can you really blame them for that? 3 FA cups in this down period does cloud the issue though admittedly, but they are undoubtedly falling behind the rest of the big six

They're actually closer to being an Everton mid table club than a force like city right now. From there anything can happen. I genuinely believe that

It's entitlement if they remained like this after Wenger left and this sort of thing was the new normal. Right now their frustration isn't entitlement but a cry for change

Very well said.

No team has an automatic right, but fans have the right to expect more than what’s being dished up by our board and manager these past couple of seasons in particular. It’s more an effort thing - expecting the club to not be so pathetic in its ambition, hoarding cash while the club slides further away from its rivals, etc.

As it stands we’re seeing horrific mismanagement that is clearly getting worse with each passing week.
 

kangaspurs

Cancelled
Jul 14, 2014
9,722
18,848
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Tottenham, Melbourne City FC
Interesting discussion. I think both arguments have merit.

Let's just agree that the most important thing is that Arsenal are s**t and their fans are turning on the manager and the club. It's beautiful.
 
Back