Play Nice As the AFL crows, rugby league works quietly on Indigenous excellence

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Professor Knowall

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He just can't help himself. a small usual, it's a mixture of highly selective opinions and dubious claims spuriously cast as facts (e.g. "... Rugby League has always been a Koori sport ...) and outright errors (claiming Mal Meninga as indigineous - he isn't). I guess the ch9 owned SMH rag is now giving him more rope than ever for his imaginative musings.
 

Our Game

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He just can't help himself. a small usual, it's a mixture of highly selective opinions and dubious claims spuriously cast as facts (e.g. "... Rugby League has always been a Koori sport ...) and outright errors (claiming Mal Meninga as indigineous - he isn't). I guess the ch9 owned SMH rag is now giving him more rope than ever for his imaginative musings.
Yep I read it and called it total BS!
I almost feel sorry for the stupid bitter and twisted old bastard as he is starting to ramble on repeat half truths and get his facts wrong always of course in RLs favour.

Im surprised that CH9/Fairfax newspapers print this rubbish.
 

Pippen94

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He just can't help himself. a small usual, it's a mixture of highly selective opinions and dubious claims spuriously cast as facts (e.g. "... Rugby League has always been a Koori sport ...) and outright errors (claiming Mal Meninga as indigineous - he isn't). I guess the ch9 owned SMH rag is now giving him more rope than ever for his imaginative musings.
The Koori Knockout is the biggest gathering of indigenous people in Australia with over 30,000 each year - so yeah, Koori people have a strong connection to Rugby League.
 

Pippen94

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Yep I read it and called it total BS!
I almost feel sorry for the stupid bitter and twisted old bastard as he is starting to ramble on repeat half truths and get his facts wrong always of course in RLs favour.

Im surprised that CH9/Fairfax newspapers print this rubbish.
Which part is BS?
Rugby League was the first code to select an Indigenous player in national team.
Artie Beetson was first Indigenous captain of a national team.
2015 NRL grand final was first to have two Indigenous captains.
All of that is correct.
 

NoobPie

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Which part is BS?
Rugby League was the first code to select an Indigenous player in national team.
Artie Beetson was first Indigenous captain of a national team.
2015 NRL grand final was first to have two Indigenous captains.
All of that is correct.
Just a few minutes going through some of the first 8 or 9 paras....



But the time difference between the national booing of Goodes, a double Brownlow medallist, and the apology, together with past undelivered, or attempted ventures, invite questions on AFL motives for Indigenous support.
Nonsense....McLachlan has previously apologised directly to Goodes for not intervening more strongly more early. THis accusation by RM is just sleaze




Somehow, the justified boast that Australian football is Australia’s indigenous (as in original) game has been insinuated into Australia’s Indigenous game, as evidenced by Monday’s comment from Collingwood chairman, Eddie McGuire: “The treatment of Adam challenges us, and our right to be considered Australia’s Indigenous football code.”
What is he even talking about here? Such conflation to try and another sleazy hit


Rugby league has always been a Koori sport but the AFL has always been better at using its false boast as a lever to gain public funding.

Really? More baseless sleaze


Compare the big noise AFL makes about support for First Nations people to the NRL reaction when Indigenous superstars refused to sing the national anthem at the State of Origin match. No big deal was made, aware it would be a breach of rugby league’s social contract with its Aboriginal players.
What the hell is he actually comparing here?



While both the AFL and NRL stage an annual Indigenous round in their respective competitions, rugby league can demonstrate commitment where it counts: appointing Indigenous people to leadership positions.
THe AFL has an aboringal women as a commissioner, on its executive and on the board of its most iconic club just as a sample

That's half the article of cherry picking and sleaze and nonsense comparisons
 

Professor Knowall

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One could also add - poor old Roy mentioned the first indigenous RL Australian rep in 1960 but, of course, made no mention of Polly Farmer's multiple selections in the All-Australian sides, starting from 1956, or of him being the first to coach at the elite (WAFL and VFL) level prior to any rugby elite level coach - obviously it doesn't fit his narrative.

Also never acknowledged the AFL's funding role in setting up the Clontarf Foundation. He was so desperate, he even claimed Mal Meninga as being indigenous. His claim that rugby "... has always been a Koori sport..." is just a bit of meaningless rhetorical nonsense.
 

Pippen94

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One could also add - poor old Roy mentioned the first indigenous RL Australian rep in 1960 but, of course, made no mention of Polly Farmer's multiple selections in the All-Australian sides, starting from 1956, or of him being the first to coach at the elite (WAFL and VFL) level prior to any rugby elite level coach - obviously it doesn't fit his narrative.

Also never acknowledged the AFL's funding role in setting up the Clontarf Foundation. He was so desperate, he even claimed Mal Meninga as being indigenous. His claim that rugby "... has always been a Koori sport..." is just a bit of meaningless rhetorical nonsense.
Roy's statement is valid, given the biggest cultural event for the Koori community each year is the Knockout.
When did the All Australian team ever play a game?
 

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Our Game

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One could also add - poor old Roy mentioned the first indigenous RL Australian rep in 1960 but, of course, made no mention of Polly Farmer's multiple selections in the All-Australian sides, starting from 1956, or of him being the first to coach at the elite (WAFL and VFL) level prior to any rugby elite level coach - obviously it doesn't fit his narrative.

Also never acknowledged the AFL's funding role in setting up the Clontarf Foundation. He was so desperate, he even claimed Mal Meninga as being indigenous. His claim that rugby "... has always been a Koori sport..." is just a bit of meaningless rhetorical nonsense.
He didnt mention Sir Douglas Nicholls who later in life was Governor of South Australia

"He joined the Northcote Football Club in the VFA, and became a regular in the Northcote team by 1929. He made his name as an energetic and speedy wingman, capable of spectacular feats, and came to be regarded as the best wingman in the VFA at the time. At 5'2", he was one of the shortest players in the game.[8] He was a member of Northcote's 1929 premiership team, and finished third in the Recorder Cup voting in 1931, his final season with Northcote.[9]

In 1932, Nicholls joined the VFL's Fitzroy Football Club and in 1935, he was the first Aboriginal player to be selected to play for the Victorian interstate team, ultimately playing four interstate games. He played a total of six seasons for Fitzroy in the VFL, before returning to Northcote in 1938".[10]

Doug Nicholls also coached Northcote VFA team in 1947 a first for an aboriginal player.
 

abcde12345

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This never happen. Fans & commentators supportive. Warne, Newman & large sections of this forum still dirty on Adam Goodes tho.
2 seconds of googling: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/fans-tuning-in-to-the-nrl-all-star-game-have-been-split-over-the-national-anthem/news-story/8c8e622401fae754d4145d1586633f17

Also came up with something about racial abuse towards Greg Inglis last year? I don't really follow it though so don't know the facts for sure.

Roy's statement is valid, given the biggest cultural event for the Koori community each year is the Knockout.
When did the All Australian team ever play a game?
He also claims "Rugby league has always been a Koori sport..." The tournament started in 1971 from a quick google. How can a sport barely a century old, and a tournament not even 50 years old, have always been the sport of a group that date back tens of thousands of years?

The whole article is just taking little snipes at the sport he doesn't like, and glossing over the shortcomings of his own. Where is the mention of Polly Farmer as discussed above, who was in the AFL's version of the national team (All-Australian) in 1956? What about Joe Johnson, an Indigenous player who played for Fitzroy literally before the NRL even existed (1904-1906, part of two premierships)?

Both sports have their shortcomings with regards to racism. It's no secret. Trying to be a revisionist and acting as if the NRL is perfect and the AFL is manipulative in this regard is just blatant dishonesty.

Misleading and petty considering it's in a major publication. But this is the drivel that drives clicks, as it's inflammatory and baity with enough mistakes to get both sides involved.
 

Our Game

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2 seconds of googling: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/fans-tuning-in-to-the-nrl-all-star-game-have-been-split-over-the-national-anthem/news-story/8c8e622401fae754d4145d1586633f17


"Misleading and petty considering it's in a major publication. But this is the drivel that drives clicks, as it's inflammatory and baity with enough mistakes to get both sides involved".
I think you will find the standard of journalism at the Age and SMH has already dropped since CH9 took over Fairfax and dont forget who broadcasts RL yep youve got it CH9!
 

Pippen94

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2 seconds of googling: https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/fans-tuning-in-to-the-nrl-all-star-game-have-been-split-over-the-national-anthem/news-story/8c8e622401fae754d4145d1586633f17

Also came up with something about racial abuse towards Greg Inglis last year? I don't really follow it though so don't know the facts for sure.
Nothing on anthem?

He also claims "Rugby league has always been a Koori sport..." The tournament started in 1971 from a quick google. How can a sport barely a century old, and a tournament not even 50 years old, have always been the sport of a group that date back tens of thousands of years?
That's dumb.

The whole article is just taking little snipes at the sport he doesn't like, and glossing over the shortcomings of his own. Where is the mention of Polly Farmer as discussed above, who was in the AFL's version of the national team (All-Australian) in 1956? What about Joe Johnson, an Indigenous player who played for Fitzroy literally before the NRL even existed (1904-1906, part of two premierships)?
All Australian is an honour not an actual team. In 1956 would have been for best players at a carnival - I didn't google this.

Both sports have their shortcomings with regards to racism. It's no secret. Trying to be a revisionist and acting as if the NRL is perfect and the AFL is manipulative in this regard is just blatant dishonesty.

Misleading and petty considering it's in a major publication. But this is the drivel that drives clicks, as it's inflammatory and baity with enough mistakes to get both sides involved.
George Megalogenis drew same comparison in the age in 2018 - is he pro league?
https://amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-is-the-dominant-australian-sport-but-can-it-stay-on-top-20180723-p4zt2r.html
 

NoobPie

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Sorry, can you actually identify the quote you are referring to here?

You have established zero credibility you can comprehend basic material in your short foray thus far here so we can't rely.

Nobody cares that Roy Masters is pro league, it is his sleazy and misleading degrading of Australian football.

If George Megalogenis is making a positive comparison in favour of Rugby League on a particular issue it just emphasises he is a far more credible commentator / human being than roy masters
 

Professor Knowall

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OK - I'm now fully convinced - Pippen94, who only joined this AaFL forum yesterday for seemingly the sole purpose of futilely defending old Roy's heavily biased (as always) and error ridden article really is no other than dear old Roy himself!

Still nothing to say about falsely including Mal Meninga as indigenous? Still trying to deflect from Polly Farmer being included in the All-Australian team years before the first indigenous player being named in the Australian RL test team? Still ignoring the Greg Ingles situation? Better to give it up, Roy
 

Pippen94

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Sorry, can you actually identify the quote you are referring to here?

You have established zero credibility you can comprehend basic material in your short foray thus far here so we can't rely.

Nobody cares that Roy Masters is pro league, it is his sleazy and misleading degrading of Australian football.

If George Megalogenis is making a positive comparison in favour of Rugby League on a particular issue it just emphasises he is a far more credible commentator / human being than roy masters
While Aussie Rules had the wider reach, rugby league was the more tolerant code, including Indigenous Australians from the start. There has been no equivalent scandals in rugby league to the booing of Sydney Swans player Adam Goodes that reached its apotheosis in 2015.

The absence of overt racism from the stands is a surprising legacy of rugby league's foundation at the time of the White Australia Policy. National Rugby League commissioner Professor Megan Davis explains that the largest urban populations of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people today live in rugby league territory. And in the working-class and underclass regions of western Sydney and south-east Queensland, "rugby league's core fan base live alongside the mob". Unlike football in Victoria, rugby league has an unbroken link to the Aboriginal people of NSW and Queensland because the game became an immediate tool of inclusion for the men who were forced into racially segregated missions and reserves at Federation.

"This is often how Aboriginal men were able to leave the reserves and missions: with permission to play in local rugby league games, alongside white Australians," says Davis, a law professor and pro vice-chancellor Indigenous at the University of NSW. "Rugby league played an emancipatory role for many men during the brutal era of Australia's own apartheid, and it facilitated a fellowship between many Indigenous and non-Indigenous rugby league players."

Davis says another factor is the example of generations of Aboriginal players who represented Australia in rugby league. Arthur Beetson was captain of the national team, the Kangaroos, in the 1970s, at a time when only a handful of Aboriginal people played Aussie Rules. She notes that in 2015, the year Goodes was driven out of AFL, rugby league had a counter-story of unity between black and white Australia, in the example of the North Queensland Cowboys.

The club's territory covers the sites of some of the most brutal frontier wars between the locals and settlers, and simultaneously has "the richest native-title footprint in the nation". The Cowboys captain, Johnathan Thurston, a proud Aboriginal man, is regarded as one of the greatest players in the game's history. On grand final day, he won the game for his team with a thrilling field goal kicked in extra time. Davis says the photo of him after the game, "exhausted, with his daughter Frankie and her black Aboriginal doll", is destined to be remembered as one of rugby league's iconic images.
 

abcde12345

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You're
right
couldn't
find
any
racism

...

You're having a laugh if you think the NRL doesn't face issues to do with racism. It isn't an issue specifically with either sport - rather it's a national issue.

This is also a fascinating hill to die on, considering the literal plethora of scandals the NRL has with most social right issues.


Nothing on anthem?
https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/anthem-debate-hijacked-indigenous-allstar-match-says-former-rugby-league-star/news-story/11d530bd979da583082d3235c9132c6a

As I said before, I spent literally 2 seconds googling in that post. Here is an article about the anthem topic from earlier in the year at the Indigenous All-Star event.

Interestingly, 60% of NRL fans disagree with their decision not to sing.


That's dumb.
Solid argument.


All Australian is an honour not an actual team. In 1956 would have been for best players at a carnival - I didn't google this.
So what you're saying is, he was in a representative team at a state carnival before 1960? And as alluded to earlier, he wasn't even the first Indigenous Australian to be in a representative team.

He was also given the honours at a national level with his first All-Australian honour (of several) in 1956. That is the equivalent of a national call-up in the NRL, whether you like that or not.


I am a Queenslander so I have literally no idea who that is.

That being his opinion is wonderful for him. It is literally just an opinion though. I also agree with a lot of what he says, the AFL should always work towards being an inclusive environment for all minorities.

The fact the best argument that can be mustered is: "We are slightly better than you!" is kind of a telling statement don't you think? Both codes have been a part of both some great and horrible things towards this issue is the fact. The focus should be on addressing the root of these issues for both codes.

If you support this publication, would you support leading AFL journalists coming out writing a nit picky article about all the scandals (on pretty much every social issue) the NRL faces, and how the AFL is better in this regard (obviously ignoring any issues the AFL may have faced on this topic)? It's incredibly petty and childish, but the journalist has a track record of this kind towards the AFL, so I guess that's old news.
 

The_Wookie

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I love how WA, SA and the NT may as well not exist in these articles. Its apparently not just the AFL ignoring WA and SA football history. Never mind the funding and programs the state bodies and the AFL run, both separately and together.

There were plenty of examples for Aboriginal players to follow - captains of teams, representatives in the All Australian side.

The authors should note that both the AFL and NRL have a similar percentage of aboriginal players (10% for the AFL, 11% for the NRL, with the AFL actually having more indigenous players in total), and with that in mind should note that in the year Goodes was "driven off" the league, there were another 70 odd players who werent.

Aboriginal players have starred in our game for decades. The Krakeur Brothers, McAdams, Kicketts, Polly Farmer, the Rioli family, Stephen Michael, Michael Long, Gavin Wanganeen, Nicky Winmar, Syd Jackson, Eddie Betts, Andrew Mcleod, Michael Mclean, Darryl White, the Burgoynes...the list goes on.
 

abcde12345

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Aboriginal players have starred in our game for decades. The Krakeur Brothers, McAdams, Kicketts, Polly Farmer, the Rioli family, Stephen Michael, Michael Long, Gavin Wanganeen, Nicky Winmar, Syd Jackson, Eddie Betts, Andrew Mcleod, Michael Mclean, Darryl White, the Burgoynes...the list goes on.
And that doesn't even mention Buddy, the literal face of the AFL in Sydney at the moment.
 
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