Ashes 25/26

[BStaff17]

Seems like a lot of talk about Root never scoring a ton in Australia in 3 tours here

Unfortunately Smudge lost 3 years of his peak due to sandpaper and Covid that means his run aggregate and 100s tally wont be at Roots level.

Honestly if Joe Root doesnt score a ton again does it harm his legacy whatsoever.

Kohli scored tons here for fun.

Williamson has scored 2 in Oz but hasn't played here enough compared to the other two and on face value last few series against us has flopped.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

The only reason why Webster is the incumbent is because Green had back surgery. While Webster has played well, I'm not contesting that, it's not like he's been incredible. If he was, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And Green has shown to be levels above Webster, he has a test match 174*. Webster doesn't. Green is also batting better right now, which in a reasonably close call definitely counts for something.

And finally, why drop the only player in the team under the age of 30. Webster will be incredibly unlucky, and personally I think they should both play, but Green is the better player now, and simply should not be dropped.

Okay this is all a bit much, i am a Green fan but yes when you miss a long period of time with injury you then have to earn that spot back, he has not done that.

'Levels above' His 174 was a fantastic innings but outside of that his test career has been very average, not bad or awful but just fine. One innings in a 32 test match career can not hold much weight.

Age can not come in to it, we have gone all in on winning last years and this years home series and that is what matters. Green is not being dropped for Webster, he should be picked or dropped for Marnus as that was his position.

Webster can be relied on to get through a test injury free, can not say the same for Green. Webster can be relied on to shoulder a bigger load with the ball if needed, Green can not. Green has had 32 tests to show his batting is levels above Webster and he has not managed that.

I think that will pick Green, i think he has done nothing to deserve selection at 6 over Webster.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Seems like a lot of talk about Root never scoring a ton in Australia in 3 tours here

Unfortunately Smudge lost 3 years of his peak due to sandpaper and Covid that means his run aggregate and 100s tally wont be at Roots level.

Honestly if Joe Root doesnt score a ton again does it harm his legacy whatsoever.

Kohli scored tons here for fun.

Williamson has scored 2 in Oz but hasn't played here enough compared to the other two and on face value last few series against us has flopped.

Of course it has to. Now it is not some black mark that means he is not still an all time great, almost all greats have a hole somewhere.

But if he were to walk away without any tons in Australia it would be a pretty big gap in his resume. I think he gets at least one this summer though, would be staggered if he didn't.

 

[melanChronic]

2/119 last year. i think there's the discussion that england bat quickly enough maybe his overs aren't required? with the all rounder/s in?

It was Lyon missing the last 3 tests in 2023 that helped the Bazball batters get on top in the series. They would love nothing more than endless pace from both ends, a smart and experienced spinner is crucial to challenge their egos and cash in on an overly gung ho approach.

Lyon has got to play every test he's available.

 

[Gollum]

Okay this is all a bit much, i am a Green fan but yes when you miss a long period of time with injury you then have to earn that spot back, he has not done that.

See you keep dismissing the runs he scored in the west indies, but wasn't that him earning his spot back? Yes it was at a different position but runs are runs.

'Levels above' His 174 was a fantastic innings but outside of that his test career has been very average, not bad or awful but just fine. One innings in a 32 test match career can not hold much weight.

Sure, but it also happened in the month or so before his injury, so pretty recent in terms of his career. Green also has a better shield record than Webster, even when only considering Webster's late career resurgence.

Webster can be relied on to get through a test injury free, can not say the same for Green. Webster can be relied on to shoulder a bigger load with the ball if needed, Green can not.

Genuine question, has Green ever broken down mid test match? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't think he has. If he's fit to bowl he's fit to bowl. And if we need 15 overs per innings from our 5th bowler, I think we've got bigger problems than if Green is able to bowl all of them.

Green has had 32 tests to show his batting is levels above Webster and he has not managed that.

Well except the innings that you don't count obviously. Like his hundred in India, his 174*, all of his runs in the West indies, his 70 odd against Sri Lanka. And the shield shows it pretty starkly, if Webster was scoring runs right now sure, but his form at the moment is hardly screaming pick me.

i think he has done nothing to deserve selection at 6 over Webster.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I just think this is plain wrong. Webster will be incredibly unlucky, but to suggest Green has done nothing is completely hyperbolic.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

See you keep dismissing the runs he scored in the west indies, but wasn't that him earning his spot back? Yes it was at a different position but runs are runs.

Sure, but it also happened in the month or so before his injury, so pretty recent in terms of his career. Green also has a better shield record than Webster, even when only considering Webster's late career resurgence.

Genuine question, has Green ever broken down mid test match? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't think he has. If he's fit to bowl he's fit to bowl. And if we need 15 overs per innings from our 5th bowler, I think we've got bigger problems than if Green is able to bowl all of them.


Well except the innings that you don't count obviously. Like his hundred in India, his 174*, all of his runs in the West indies, his 70 odd against Sri Lanka. And the shield shows it pretty starkly, if Webster was scoring runs right now sure, but his form at the moment is hardly screaming pick me.


I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I just think this is plain wrong. Webster will be incredibly unlucky, but to suggest Green has done nothing is completely hyperbolic.

I adressed the West Indies tour... He scored 34 extra runs at an average of 5 extra... No that is not earning the spot back.

When you miss 12 months of cricket you normally have to earn a spot back in the team, especially when you were not entrenched in the team before hand.

I acknowledged his terrific innings in NZ but his 100 in India was on one of the single flattest pitches i have ever seen, his West Indies tour is being so so so so so overrated by you. Yes the pitches were tough but being the 3rd leading run scorer @ 30 runs being one of his career highlights shows he has not proven to be levels above with the bat.

He never cemented his spot at 6, he never did at 3, he has not bowled consistently for over 12 months. He does not have any long term form at test level with the bat or recent form at shield level. I think Green will be a long term member of the team, i don't think it is fair to use 4 shield innings as a measurement of Websters form. When Green has not shown anything at shield level either.

 

[eltrain]

Think its also got to do with the unfavorable exchange rate as to why more Aussies dont tour England.

There’s plenty of Aussies over there. In the northern summer you can’t swing a cat in some parts of London without hitting an Aussie. It’s just damn near impossible to get an Ashes ticket there unless you go with the overpriced boomer tour groups.

 

[Westend]

I adressed the West Indies tour... He scored 34 extra runs at an average of 5 extra... No that is not earning the spot back.

When you miss 12 months of cricket you normally have to earn a spot back in the team, especially when you were not entrenched in the team before hand.

I acknowledged his terrific innings in NZ but his 100 in India was on one of the single flattest pitches i have ever seen, his West Indies tour is being so so so so so overrated by you. Yes the pitches were tough but being the 3rd leading run scorer @ 30 runs being one of his career highlights shows he has not proven to be levels above with the bat.

He never cemented his spot at 6, he never did at 3, he has not bowled consistently for over 12 months. He does not have any long term form at test level with the bat or recent form at shield level. I think Green will be a long term member of the team, i don't think it is fair to use 4 shield innings as a measurement of Websters form. When Green has not shown anything at shield level either.

You keep banging on about how greenie has not cemented his spot but what about Webster ????

Yes he has been okay but the reason green is being talked about moving back to six is because marnus is back in form and webbie has done okay but not overly fantastic hasn't made a ton or taken a 5 wicket haul in test cricket plus his batting atm in the shield is average

You say "I dont think its fair to use 4 shield innings as a measurement of Websters from" but you are happy to use greenies form in your posts ...if greenie makes a duck tomorrow will you use that to justify webbies spot ?...or as you say it should not be a Measurement of form ?? Greenie did make 40 odd last week off about 100 balls batting time to draw the game and was fired by the ump

You mention that Webster is the "incumbent6 " well green is currently the incumbent number 3 who has scored a pair of 40s and 50 in his last three tests innings on a tough deck when the ball is newer than coming in at six.

Would I prefer marnus at 3 yes as I prefer greenie best suited to 4-6 and unfortunately if thats the case webbie goes out

I can still see them keeping both in the side though...which I think will be a mistake

 

[Westend]

Green has had 32 tests to show his batting is levels above Webster and he has not managed that.

Yes he has two test hundreds webbie has none

 

[Sonny Hayes]

You keep banging on about how greenie has not cemented his spot but what about Webster ????

Yes he has been okay but the reason green is being talked about moving back to six is because marnus is back in form and webbie has done okay but not overly fantastic hasn't made a ton or taken a 5 wicket haul in test cricket plus his batting atm in the shield is average

You say "I dont think its fair to use 4 shield innings as a measurement of Websters from" but you are happy to use greenies form in your posts ...if greenie makes a duck tomorrow will you use that to justify webbies spot ?...or as you say it should not be a Measurement of form ?? Greenie did make 40 odd last week off about 100 balls batting time to draw the game and was fired by the ump

You mention that Webster is the "incumbent6 " well green is currently the incumbent number 3 who has scored a pair of 40s and 50 in his last three tests innings on a tough deck when the ball is newer than coming in at six.

Would I prefer marnus at 3 yes as I prefer greenie best suited to 4-6 and unfortunately if thats the case webbie goes out

I can still see them keeping both in the side though...which I think will be a mistake

The difference is Green has had 30 tests to cement his spot and can’t be relied on to bowl but is ‘competing’ for an all rounder spot.

I wouldn’t use a poor game against Green outside of the fact that if he is going to push the incumbent out it should have to be because he is bashing the door down. Not bowling and being okay but not great in limited games with the bat shouldn’t be enough.

The difference is again Marnus is actually bashing the door down and in incredible form, I have said I am fine with either Green or Marnus being in the team. But Marnus is batting 3 and doing it very well so he is putting up an argument for that number 3 spot. Completely different scenario to Green and 6.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Yes he has two test hundreds webbie has none

2 test hundreds in 30+ tests compared to 7… you can’t possibly make that comparison.

Especially when one was on one of the flattest wickets ever produced.

Webster has 4 50+ scores in 12 innings, Green has 9 in 51

 

[Borisdog]

They have been coming down harder lately on this. You need a spinner. Lyon will have a big role to at worst give Starc a break

He'll give ALL the quicks a break. He won't be bowling from Starc's end.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah why pick the guy who took a 5fa and is the incumbent when you can pick the guy for simply bowling for the first time in damn near a couple years.

He is better it’s just that simple and Webster hasn’t made a run all year plus his last four test knocks

 

[Sonny Hayes]

He is better it’s just that simple and Webster hasn’t made a run all year plus his last four test knocks

Yet in 30+ tests he’s failed to show that

 

[Gough]

Reading this today, George Coulthard was quite the lad.

The remarkable story of the 1879 Sydney riot that set the tone for 150 years of Ashes rivalry

All hell broke loose at what became known as the SCG when a couple of thousand people, including a teenage Banjo Paterson, stormed the pitch

www.theguardian.com

Here we turn to one of the umpires. George Coulthard had an extraordinary young life: by 25 he had filled out a bingo card that read state cricketer, Test umpire, Test cricketer, rugby sensation, boxer against world champion Jem Mace, and the foremost Aussie rules identity of the day. He took Carlton to a premiership, led the goalkicking three years running before the Coleman medal existed, dominated for Victoria in state matches, became a footy umpire while pioneering what became the traditional white uniform and got suspended for an entire season for brawling. In his downtime, he was a vigilante crime fighter, which got him named an honorary detective by Victoria police, and he donated a koala to Melbourne zoo. George was a busy guy.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yet in 30+ tests he’s failed to show that

Actually he has two test tons and a test 5 for to his name. The extra air speed with the ball will be important this summer especially minus Cummins for most of it.

The reality is Webster was awful the last 4 test knocks, he just was. Green was better in the Windies in a harder position too.

Then this summer Webster can't buy a run not as if others have not scored some runs in those games.

They can always play both but if it's just one it's going to be Green

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Actually he has two test tons and a test 5 for to his name. The extra air speed with the ball will be important this summer especially minus Cummins for most of it.

The reality is Webster was awful the last 4 test knocks, he just was. Green was better in the Windies in a harder position too.

Then this summer Webster can't buy a run not as if others have not scored some runs in those games.

They can always play both but if it's just one it's going to be Green

2 tons and a 5fa in 30 tests, you are taking the piss right? One of those 100’s is worth very little as well as I think you’d have made runs on that pitch.

Despite the 4 bad knocks he still finished just 30 runs behind green for that series.

Expecting Green to be the difference with the ball is a very bold and probably stupid strategy

 

[LukeParkerno1]

2 tons and a 5fa in 30 tests, you are taking the piss right? One of those 100’s is worth very little as well as I think you’d have made runs on that pitch.

Despite the 4 bad knocks he still finished just 30 runs behind green for that series.

Expecting Green to be the difference with the ball is a very bold and probably stupid strategy

If it was that easy to make hundreds everyone would have in that match. Webster is fine but the reality is he was never ahead of Green and still isn’t he’s a fantastic backup that’s test quality if need be.

I would personally play both of them myself with Lab opening. That’s what I would do personally

Websters bowling is never getting a test 5 for let’s be real here and he’s in dreadful nick with the bat. You want to claim incumbency well the bloke better be undroppable if he’s in the form Webster is with the bat and end of the day it’s a batting A/R spot not a bowling one.

 

[Bedi]

Disappointing for Renshaw selectors felt the need to announce the squad before Shield games were done with. Also what's the plan if Weatherald plays and goes cheaply? Guess he gets two tests like McSweeney to prove himself, and if that not will be sent to cricketing exile along with the other failed openers.

 

[Rabish Binney]

There’s plenty of Aussies over there. In the northern summer you can’t swing a cat in some parts of London without hitting an Aussie. It’s just damn near impossible to get an Ashes ticket there unless you go with the overpriced boomer tour groups.

Went to the Lords test in 2023.

I'm a SACA member so was able to get my tickets via reciprocal rights between AO and MCC/Lords (although being a SACA member just doesn't guarantee you a Lords ticket, there is a bit of a process to go through before you get invited to purchase tickets)

Went for the first 4 days and the cost for 1 ticket was 160 GBP (there were 2 of us, so 320 GBP per day). At the time the AUD equivalent was $578, so it ended up costing us a total of $2,312 for the 4 days.

Expensive (as everything is in the UK) but Lords was on the bucket list so what do you do? Planning to go over again in 2027 hopefully....

A mate of mine was there as well and he did go on one of those packaged tours. He did tell me what the cost of the whole tour was (I cant recall ow much it was now) but I remember thinking at the time, JFC really?

I haven't checked the AUD - GBP exchange rate lately but it was shocking when we were over there. In our minds, we basically just doubled what the price was to convert it to AUD. The misses was charged 15 GBP for a Pimms and lemonade at a bar which was $28 AUD equivalent...

 

[Westend]

Webbie getting head again just got carey

Good return for him 7 wickets so far

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Disappointing for Renshaw selectors felt the need to announce the squad before Shield games were done with. Also what's the plan if Weatherald plays and goes cheaply? Guess he gets two tests like McSweeney to prove himself, and if that not will be sent to cricketing exile along with the other failed openers.

Should have been in the squad anyway but probably is seen halfway through the series

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Webbie getting head again just got carey

Good return for him 7 wickets so far

Dead set Head is lucky he has credits in the bank. When was the last time he made a decent score?

 

[Westend]

Dead set Head is lucky he has credits in the bank. When was the last time he made a decent score?

Yeah getting. A Little bit worried with head after the great World Cup ton his form has been average

But he is the type of player who can produce a 100 off 90 balls let’s hope he can this first test

 

[Westend]

Should have been in the squad anyway but probably is seen halfway through the series

That’s what we want goes back to shield and tons up good to see