Ashton Agar - why?

[Carlos Danger]

The ******* Big Bash now.

Pat Cummins is a good batsmen for a bowler.
He is nowhere near Agar.

Starc has good results so far but his batting is alsi overrated.

James Pattinson however has the technique and ability to average 30 in test cricket l.

You know the WA team better than me, where would agar sit next year in the batting order & bowling wise in the WA shield side, assuming they have everyone fit and available.

 

[JG22]

The Reaper has seen a heap of Agar and I'm backing his judgement on this one

The ******* Big Bash now.

Pat Cummins is a good batsmen for a bowler.
He is nowhere near Agar.

Starc has good results so far but his batting is alsi overrated.

James Pattinson however has the technique and ability to average 30 in test cricket l.

Ok then, all I know is 26 over a fair few games is an ordinary average

 

[The_Reaper]

You know the WA team better than me, where would agar sit next year in the batting order & bowling wise in the WA shield side, assuming they have everyone fit and available.

7 or 8.

First choice spinner.

Should be nowhere near the test squad.

Still a much better batsman than Cummins.

 

[Carlos Danger]

7 or 8.

First choice spinner.

Should be nowhere near the test squad.

Still a much better batsman than Cummins.

Be good for him if he can hold down #7. Lower you get harder it is to get into a rhythm with your batting as batting to situation often changes, having to hit out rather than construct an innings

 

[The_Reaper]

Be good for him if he can hold down #7. Lower you get harder it is to get into a rhythm with your batting as batting to situation often changes, having to hit out rather than construct an innings

Yeah but Stoinis coming over changes things up a bit.

Also whatever happens with Klinger. Personally I wouldn't have him in our best XI anymore (for Shield) but he'll probably be Captain.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Yeah but Stoinis coming over changes things up a bit.

Also whatever happens with Klinger. Personally I wouldn't have him in our best XI anymore (for Shield) but he'll probably be Captain.

Off the top of my head
Bancroft
Wells
Klinger
Cartwright
Turner
M Marsh
S MARSH
Stoinis
Agar
Whiteman
Behrendorff
Mackin
NCN
Paris
Richardson

That's 15 very good shield players there & I've probably forgotten or don't know about a few more.

I didn't know about stoinis coming, I've no idea why you need him. How many allround types can you for in one team?

Plus I don't think you can rely on Australia taking anyone off your hands for the test team (not the usuals anyway, maybe cartwright) so good players are going to miss some games

 

[Damon_3388]

Lol at thinking Zampa is test quality he's got 2/200 in the Shield final for crying out loud! Rubbish red ball bowler.

Where did I say or imply Zampa was Test quality? I was talking about the Redbacks squad.

I don't think Zampa nor Agar should be in or around the Test team.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Where did I say or imply Zampa was Test quality? I was talking about the Redbacks squad.

I don't think Zampa nor Agar should be in or around the Test team.

He's barely Shield standard. In fact it shows a problem as there is a real lack of depth in spinners in this country.

 

[The_Reaper]

There is mounting evidence that Zampa has improved to the extent he is shield standard.

 

[Damon_3388]

There is mounting evidence that Zampa has improved to the extent he is shield standard.

This. I've been a big detractor of his in the past, but he's shown definite improvement in the second half of the Shield season.

If he's not interrupted by ODI/T20I commitments, I'd expect a good full year from him next year.

 

[Hellgood]

Off the top of my head
Bancroft
Wells
Klinger
Cartwright
Turner
M Marsh
S MARSH
Stoinis
Agar
Whiteman
Behrendorff
Mackin
NCN
Paris
Richardson

That's 15 very good shield players there & I've probably forgotten or don't know about a few more.

I didn't know about stoinis coming, I've no idea why you need him. How many allround types can you for in one team?

Plus I don't think you can rely on Australia taking anyone off your hands for the test team (not the usuals anyway, maybe cartwright) so good players are going to miss some games

It's not about 'needing' Stoinis, he's coming home due to family circumstance. Whilst he's by no means a great FC cricketer, I think he's demonstrated his worth and potential to comfortably accommodate that.

Interestingly it's becoming less of a matter of the test team interfering with shield availability these days due to the BBL scheduling and more so due to the ODI/T20I's played at the start/end of the summer. With that in mind would expect the Marsh brothers, Stoinis, Agar, Behrendorff and Richardson to have some interruption (though never all at once). We'll see how Paris and NCN go in their returns too.

 

[The_Reaper]

It's not about 'needing' Stoinis, he's coming home due to family circumstance. Whilst he's by no means a great FC cricketer, I think he's demonstrated his worth and potential to comfortably accommodate that.

Interestingly it's becoming less of a matter of the test team interfering with shield availability these days due to the BBL scheduling and more so due to the ODI/T20I's played at the start/end of the summer. With that in mind would expect the Marsh brothers, Stoinis, Agar, Behrendorff and Richardson to have some interruption (though never all at once). We'll see how Paris and NCN go in their returns too.

The other thing with Stoinis is that he's clearly a player of National Interest so will get fit into the side.

Makes Klinger's place less certain and unfortunately for Wells, despite his good season, his position will be under a lot of pressure as well.

 

[Carlos Danger]

The other thing with Stoinis is that he's clearly a player of National Interest so will get fit into the side.

Makes Klinger's place less certain and unfortunately for Wells, despite his good season, his position will be under a lot of pressure as well.

WA will do a good job to keep all their players happy. Cos there's a lot of good talent in the squad and unless they get another bad run with injury they're not all gonna play as much as they'd like. Ditto with the Scorchers squad.
Surely the fringe guys may look at opportunity elsewhere, especially with the big bash $$

I think WA are already favourites for BBL & Shield next year. Their biggest problem is going to be team balance & player management

 

[Damon_3388]

Wait, Stoinis is going back to WA now? Why?

 

[Hellgood]

WA will do a good job to keep all their players happy. Cos there's a lot of good talent in the squad and unless they get another bad run with injury they're not all gonna play as much as they'd like. Ditto with the Scorchers squad.
Surely the fringe guys may look at opportunity elsewhere, especially with the big bash $$

I think WA are already favourites for BBL & Shield next year. Their biggest problem is going to be team balance & player management

A frequent rotation of injuries to our very impressive stock of bowlers have kind of prevented it from becoming an issue. Batting/All-rounder wise management has been made a bit easier by Australian selection and the next crop of batsmen not really bashing down the door as quickly as anticipated.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I'm not even a fan of Zampa, but he has improved greatly in the second half of this Shield season (34.55 average, 58.30 strike rate, 3.56 economy rate in his last 5 Shield matches), and his batting is good enough to play at #7 or #8 if needed (usually bats at #7 in the Redbacks one day side). They can already do what you're proposing with Zampa if they choose, and keep the runs down with their pacemen, but they choose not to.

Bowling is the Redbacks strength. It's their batting in big matches and at crucial stages of games (looking great otherwise though) that's stopping them from winning a Shield final with the squad they have.

Has he though? Take out his 10 wicket match v Qld, and post-BBL he's taken 11 wickets @ 54 in 8 innings now. Even if we exclude the final (seeing as though Victoria have pretty much just batted out the draw) he's still averaging 42 in three matches, and although that's not a huge sample size, I wouldn't call it a small one either.

I'm not writing him off just yet, because it did look for a minute as though he may have turned the corner a bit, but that he couldn't really do any damage after that 10-for does raise some alarms of it being a bit of an Agar-style fluke.

 

[RedStarUncle]

Wait, Stoinis is going back to WA now? Why?

Family reasons. Can't be confirmed until CA contracts enter official assessment period or whatever they call it.



Agar is probably a 6-7 batsman at Shield level but will bat at 7-8 for WA assuming both Marshes, Cartwright and Turner are all available for the middle order.

I would say Cummins (and Starc for that matter) are slightly behind Agar and are basically 8-9 batsmen possibly able to be pushed up to 7. It depends really on the team structure, because if WA are going to pick Behrendorff, Mackin and Moody you might want Agar at 8 for some batting in the tail. Whereas a theoretical NSW team could probably carry Cummins and Starc at 7 and 8 with O'Keefe, Abbott and Copeland also in the team to give plenty of late order batting depth. Does the fact that Cummins could bat at 7 for NSW whereas WA would want Agar at 8 make Cummins the better batter?

For Australia, Agar needs to either be a frontline spinner or put a 500+ run Shield season together. Ashton Turner was a similar bits-and-pieces player until this season but now you could say he's a proven batsman who can bowl a bit. Agar has potential in both areas but isn't proven at international level in either and until he does that he, like all young players with potential, should be doing the hard yards at Shield level.

 

[Damon_3388]

Has he though? Take out his 10 wicket match v Qld, and post-BBL he's taken 11 wickets @ 54 in 8 innings now. Even if we exclude the final (seeing as though Victoria have pretty much just batted out the draw) he's still averaging 42 in three matches, and although that's not a huge sample size, I wouldn't call it a small one either.

I'm not writing him off just yet, because it did look for a minute as though he may have turned the corner a bit, but that he couldn't really do any damage after that 10-for does raise some alarms of it being a bit of an Agar-style fluke.

Well, overall, it's a damn sight better than the 51 average and 4.3 economy rate he served up in his first 25 career Shield games. He's making progress, while Agar has been spinning his wheels for nearly two seasons now. It's of course now up to Zampa now to back it up with further improvement next season, but at least he's pointing in the right direction at the moment.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Jack of all trades, Fielding is great, however bowling is not of an international standard, handy with the bat for a bowler.

Unless he starts turning it a lot more he wont go anywhere

 

[Yellowperil]

So he's got a contact now! How gutted must SOK feel? Takes 10 wickets in a test. Guy who can't get on the pitch nabs the contract.....

 

[Belnakor]

So he's got a contact now! How gutted must SOK feel? Takes 10 wickets in a test. Guy who can't get on the pitch nabs the contract.....

If they'd given SOK a contract the front page would be talking about how CA doesn't respect women / promotes binge drinking / rewarded a misogynist / won't you think of the children.

Did himself in

 

[Wolfs]

If they'd given SOK a contract the front page would be talking about how CA doesn't respect women / promotes binge drinking / rewarded a misogynist / won't you think of the children.

Did himself in

Yes, yes he did. It was the right call.

 

[ROOTA#6]

So he's got a contact now! How gutted must SOK feel? Takes 10 wickets in a test. Guy who can't get on the pitch nabs the contract.....

As was mentioned. If he had have stayed off the piss and not made a complete goose of himself,he would have been ok.

No one to blame but himself

 

[Phone]

I very much doubt this recent event had any impact on SOK's possible contract. not being in line for any LO cricket is the reason.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I didn't know about stoinis coming, I've no idea why you need him. How many allround types can you for in one team?

You could direct that at NSW, they just lurve them an all-round type. Even to the point of pretending that Sean Abbott is an all-rounder.