Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Total Power]

I am warning you; do not say that me or any other poster on this forum is not a Christian ever again. Only god can make such claims.

You still have not read Genesis Chapters 2 to 4.

your google research lacks context.

More bullshit claims based on virtue signalling. Lack of info is not proof of existence. Bible mentions nothing about other people, i went back and checked your screenshots, which doesn't support your cause at all.

The claims you are making are not Christian. Christian belief is humans descended from Adam. Every Christian believes this, outside of you, which doesn't make you a Chrsitian.

Catholic/Lutheran/Protestant/Orthodox, all 4 sects, making up 90% of the Christian population, preach the same thing. My 'google research' is quoting Biblical scholars, who are Christians. So i assume you profess to know more than the rest?

Go tell them they are clueless.

And i will say what i wish to, it's an observation, you don't come across as a Christian, this is apparently. Oh look a warning, i am so scared. Proof is in the pudding, you don't believe in the central Christian tenets, nothing that you say speak Chrisitanity to me. You are a Mormon arent you?

So let me ask you again, why are you in this thread? First you misinterpret science, then you claim to believe in things which aren't Christian at all. OS, Adam being the first man on earth, Trinity etc are PILLARS OF CHRISTIANITY. You don't get to decide what is Christianity, it's defined in the Council of Nicea!!!! that is Christianity as it is today.

I am done with ya, goodluck to the others who has the patience to reply to this moron (and Mormon)

Enjoy.

 

[Rosscoe]

More bullshit claims based on virtue signalling. Lack of info is not proof of existence. Bible mentions nothing about other people, i went back and checked your screenshots, which doesn't support your cause at all.

The claims you are making are not Christian. Christian belief is humans descended from Adam. Every Christian believes this, outside of you, which doesn't make you a Chrsitian.

Catholic/Lutheran/Protestant/Orthodox, all 4 sects, making up 90% of the Christian population, preach the same thing. My 'google research' is quoting Biblical scholars, who are Christians. So i assume you profess to know more than the rest?

Go tell them they are clueless.

And i will say what i wish to, it's an observation, you don't come across as a Christian, this is apparently. Oh look a warning, i am so scared. Proof is in the pudding, you don't believe in the central Christian tenets, nothing that you say speak Chrisitanity to me. You are a Mormon arent you?

So let me ask you again, why are you in this thread? First you misinterpret science, then you claim to believe in things which aren't Christian at all. OS, Adam being the first man on earth, Trinity etc are PILLARS OF CHRISTIANITY. You don't get to decide what is Christianity, it's defined in the Council of Nicea!!!! that is Christianity as it is today.

I am done with ya, goodluck to the others who has the patience to reply to this moron (and Mormon)

Enjoy.

I am not done with you yet.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Umm....did god do this?

 

[Total Power]

I am not done with you yet.

Dude, i have been patient with many christians in this thread, going back 600 pages, but i cannot fathom this much stupidity. You got nothing to offer to me, or to this thread which is about Christians and you ain't one. If you do not believe in the central tenets of Christian, start your own thread, you shouldn't be here. Pretty sure you are just trolling and baiting people here. Goodluck baiting other people. Anyway, Goodbye.

 

[Roylion]

You still have not read Genesis Chapters 2 to 4.

I've just re-read it. And?

 

[Gethelred]

Umm....did god do this?

I said Asparagus...

 

[CM9000]

I have a few questions for you.

How, specifically, does the word 'cult' insult you personally? Have I called your specific sect a cult? Is it wrong to have called your specific sect a cult? Are you willing to argue the case that your specific sect is not a cult? Are you willing to enter into a conversation as to what being a cult actually is, and whether that's an accurate appellation for your specific branch of Christianity?

Then, we can get on to whether an accurate designation of a religion as a cult actually reflects on me as a person, instead of being a bit of an overreaction in a conversation you've chosen to enter for what seems to be the purposes of argument.

Bear in mind: there's a reason I left this thread. Y'all don't answer the questions I have. Y'all don't think deeply enough - and I do mean think, not prevaricate, not theologize - about the questions I've asked or the issues they raise. And this is not a great forum for the conversations I want to have; I want to be able to explore the edges of your belief, to see where it holds and where it doesn't, to see if the logic that caused me to leave causes you to doubt.

I don't actively want you to turn from your god, but I'd like to see you thinking. A reasoning person with faith is better than one who unquestioningly accepts each and every thing a priest says.

And perhaps this is an example of a rather unfortunate attitude. The initial approach you are taking is one wherein religion is placed into a very specific box, in which the attributes of irrationality and “anti-science” are attached to the concept beforehand. Have you ever wondered whether the justification behind your current attitude is deeply entwined with your personal experience, and thus, it is not solely through “reason” that you have approached the plane you rest on now?

Perhaps a good excercise would be to engage in some critical discussion on these questions you have? Ask away, but I’d very much appreciate it if you could keep it to a maximum of 3, because I do have a lot of commitments at the moment, and I have a propensity to get sucked into a discussion like this.

 

[Gethelred]

And perhaps this is an example of a rather unfortunate attitude. The initial approach you are taking is one wherein religion is placed into a very specific box, in which the attributes of irrationality and “anti-science” are attached to the concept beforehand. Have you ever wondered whether the justification behind your current attitude is deeply entwined with your personal experience, and thus, it is not solely through “reason” that you have approached the plane you rest on now?

I've been pretty honest in this thread that my decision to cease being Catholic was emotional rather than reasoned. But that's not how one arrives at atheism; mere rejection of Catholicism makes one either a lapsed Catholic or an Agnostic. The step to atheism was taken after research, and looking at the various justifications in favour and against.

I'm wondering a few things here. You've been in this thread before, and your attitude was markedly different then. What's happened between now and then that's gotten you so deeply into the 'them vs us' paradigm?

Makes me a bit sad.

Perhaps a good excercise would be to engage in some critical discussion on these questions you have? Ask away, but I’d very much appreciate it if you could keep it to a maximum of 3, because I do have a lot of commitments at the moment, and I have a propensity to get sucked into a discussion like this.

These are good to start with.

1. If God is omnipotent and omniscient - as in, he is all powerful and all knowing - how do we have free will, at all?
2. If God is good, why does evil exist?
3. If God is good, why does he allow evil to be done in his name? Why does he allow lies to be told in his name?
4. If any of the Bible is supposed to be God's word/commandments which he wants humans to follow, how can you reject any single commandment within the Bible?

Bear in mind, I've asked them before here, but the problem is that those who've attempted to answer them are extremely few in number, and they either couldn't answer or tried to answer theologically. And a theological answer to a logical question is somewhat doomed to fail.

 

[Rosscoe]

There is no new people, Adam was the first one on earth. I have shown you how woman was made from Adam's rib, so how will there be other people? this is not supported by scriptures at all, Adam's family incest is how the world was populated according to the Bible.

Bhahaahahaha So you are saying Adams family incest is the central tenet to all Christianity and that whoever does not believe this is not a Christian.

You could read Genesis 4 a thousand times over and I still think you would not see it. I do not know if that is because you are illiterate or fail to face up to what is actually written because of your unconscious bias.

If I tell you; I am sure you would start going around to 90% of Christians with this simple detail in the bible claiming their god is not real because of it.

I am not about to do that because when my Christian brothers read Genesis 4 they will know what I am talking about and we can all have a good laugh about how for 700 odd pages you have tried to use our differences to cause them to doubt their faith. Its anti Christian; a rotten thing to do and it needs to stop.

You are like a person that learnt about Carpentry concepts from a how to do it book and then try to school a Carpenter with 20+ years experience; But the hilarious part is that you call the Carpenter a fraud, fake because he disagrees with your how to do it book.

You keep fishing for what denomination I am; so you can attack (after a google search) the differences that faith has and use scripture from other faiths that rebuke that persons belief. The truth is I am not Jehovahs witness nor Morman nor anything you could ever imagine; so you are forced to go back to scripture.

Can anyone who is not a Christian on BF read Genesis 4 and clearly explain how this could not be the case? I wonder

 

[Rosscoe]

I've just re-read it. And?

Genesis Chapter 4

 

[Roylion]

Genesis Chapter 4

What about it? What point are you trying to make?

 

[Rosscoe]

What about it? What point are you trying to make?

That this claim by TP has no basis.

Adam's family incest is how the world was populated according to the Bible.

 

[Roylion]

That this claim by TP has no basis.

Adam's family incest is how the world was populated according to the Bible.

"Answers in Genesis" a Christian apologetics site (so your "Christian brothers") states in relation to Cain's wife states:

"The simple answer is that Cain married his sister or another close relation, like a niece."

and....

"There were no other people on earth as some have claimed. God did not create other people groups from which Cain chose a wife, as we are all made of one blood (Acts 17:26)."

and......

"Christians who have a problem with this answer need to remember that Noah’s grandchildren must have married brothers, sisters, or first cousins—there were no other people (1 Peter 3:20; Genesis 7:7). Abraham married his half-sister (Genesis 20:2, 12); Isaac married Rebekah, the daughter of his cousin Bethuel (Genesis 24:15, 67); and Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel. Clearly, the Bible does not forbid the marriage of close relatives."

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/who-was-cains-wife/

That's certainly seems what we today would classify as "incest".

"Answers in Genesis" is of course run by Ken Ham, responsible for a life size model of Noah's Ark also in Kentucky called the "Ark Encounter".

What is your theory as to how the Earth was populated and how does Genesis 4 demonstrate this?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I said Asparagus...

Zucchini for me. Actually, in truth, I said tomato but then I remembered a tomato is a fruit so zucchini was my second option.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I said Asparagus...

Hmm, I think that must be Satan

 

[Rosscoe]

Asswers in Genesis a Christian apologetics site states in relation to Cain's wife states:

"The simple answer is that Cain married his sister or another close relation, like a niece."

and....

"There were no other people on earth as some have claimed. God did not create other people groups from which Cain chose a wife, as we are all made of one blood (Acts 17:26)."

and

"Christians who have a problem with this answer need to remember that Noah’s grandchildren must have married brothers, sisters, or first cousins—there were no other people (1 Peter 3:20; Genesis 7:7). Abraham married his half-sister (Genesis 20:2, 12); Isaac married Rebekah, the daughter of his cousin Bethuel (Genesis 24:15, 67); and Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel. Clearly, the Bible does not forbid the marriage of close relatives."

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/who-was-cains-wife/

That's certainly seems what we today would classify as "incest".

What is your theory as to how the Earth was populated?

"The simple answer is that Cain married his sister or another close relation, like a niece."

Roylion did you read anywhere in genesis 1-4 anything about a sister or cousin.


"There were no other people on earth as some have claimed. God did not create other people groups from which Cain chose a wife, as we are all made of one blood (Acts 17:26)."

But who was Cain talking about considering he killed Abel, Seth had not been born and adam and eve were not driven from eden.
Genesis 4:13
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

 

[Roylion]

"The simple answer is that Cain married his sister or another close relation, like a niece."

Roylion did you read anywhere in genesis 1-4 anything about a sister or cousin.

Your "Christian brothers" say there were no other people on Earth. Cain married a sister or niece. That's what they said wasn't it?

"There were no other people on earth as some have claimed. God did not create other people groups from which Cain chose a wife, as we are all made of one blood (Acts 17:26)."

But who was Cain talking about considering he killed Abel, Seth had not been born and adam and eve were not driven from eden.
Genesis 4:13
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

"Whoever" could well be his father or mother. They were still alive supposedly.

But of course the use of the word "whoever" (if indeed that is the correct translation from the original Hebrew), merely demonstrates that Genesis was written much later (between 500 BC and 300 BC) by a number of authors. Indeed Genesis 1-4 shows clearly that the original source material was actually two different stories.

In any case Genesis 4 is not the recorded word of God, nor is it history.

Whatever Cain said to the Lord was made up (invented) by the authors of Genesis (between 500 BC and 300 BC). They weren't the verbatim words of Cain that were somehow transmitted via word of mouth for three and a half thousand years to be finally set down verbatim by the authors of Genesis. Cain's words In Genesis 4 were pure "invention". Look that word up in case you dont know what it means.

Pretty much like Cain himself. An invention. The character of Cain is a literary device, based on an older story...where the characters are also literary devices.

So if you disagree you'd better talk to your "brother Christians" because they say something differently to what you say.

I repeat. Your "Christian brothers" say there were no other people on earth apart from Adam's family. See the quote from your "Christian brothers" below.

And just so you don't forget, (I understand that four posts up is a long way for you to go, so I'll post it again)....below is what your "Christian brothers" say about the matter.

Are they wrong?

Here you are.

The simple answer is that Cain married his sister or another close relation, like a niece."

and....

"There were no other people on earth as some have claimed. God did not create other people groups from which Cain chose a wife, as we are all made of one blood (Acts 17:26)."

and......

"Christians who have a problem with this answer need to remember that Noah’s grandchildren must have married brothers, sisters, or first cousins—there were no other people (1 Peter 3:20; Genesis 7:7). Abraham married his half-sister (Genesis 20:2, 12); Isaac married Rebekah, the daughter of his cousin Bethuel (Genesis 24:15, 67); and Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel. Clearly, the Bible does not forbid the marriage of close relatives."

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/who-was-cains-wife/

This is all most amusing.

 

[Rosscoe]

Your "brother Christians" say there were no other people on Earth. Cain married a sister or niece.




"Whoever" could well be his father or mother. They were still alive suppsoedly.

But of course the use of the word "whoever" (if indeed that is the correct translation from the original Hebrew), merely demonstrates that Genesis was written much later (between 500 BC and 300 BC) by a number of authors. Indeed Genesis 1-4 shows clearly that the original source material was actually two different stories.

In any case Genesis 4 not the recorded word of God, nor is it history.

And you'd better talk to your "brother Christians" because they say different to what you say. They say there were no other people on earth apart from Adam's family.

And just so you don't forget, (I understand that four posts up is a long way for you to go, so I'll post it again) below is what your "brother Christians" say about the matter.

Are they wrong?

Here you are.

The simple answer is that Cain married his sister or another close relation, like a niece."

and....

"There were no other people on earth as some have claimed. God did not create other people groups from which Cain chose a wife, as we are all made of one blood (Acts 17:26)."

and......

"Christians who have a problem with this answer need to remember that Noah’s grandchildren must have married brothers, sisters, or first cousins—there were no other people (1 Peter 3:20; Genesis 7:7). Abraham married his half-sister (Genesis 20:2, 12); Isaac married Rebekah, the daughter of his cousin Bethuel (Genesis 24:15, 67); and Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel. Clearly, the Bible does not forbid the marriage of close relatives."

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/who-was-cains-wife/

Thanks for responding Roylion; simply pointing out that the bible is the Authority. In Acts 17:26 the blood that unites us is the blood of Jesus not Adam.

 

[Roylion]

Thanks for responding Roylion; simply pointing out that the bible is the Authority. In Acts 17:26 the blood that unites us is the blood of Jesus not Adam.

You'd better talk to your "Christian brothers" because it seems they don't agree with you either on Genesis 4 and Acts 17:26.

All very amusing. Doesn't fill me with confidence that you actually know what you're talking about. In fact it appears you don't.

You'd better get onto answersingenesis.com to get your story straight.

But keep going. I need a few more laughs.

 

[Total Power]

You'd better talk to your "brother Christians" because it seems they don't agree with you either on Genesis 4 and Acts 17:26

All very amusing.

No one knows the Bible outside of him, not even Christians. Don't bother, waste of space.

 

[Roylion]

No one knows the Bible outside of him, not even Christians. Don't bother, waste of space.

Oh yeah. Might be trolling. He doesn't actually show Christianity in the best light and doesn't appear to be getting a great deal of support from other Christians here. Kenny Ham would be horrified!

Hmm. Maybe that's his purpose. But still amusing.

 

[Rosscoe]

You'd better talk to your "Christian brothers" because it seems they don't agree with you either on Genesis 4 and Acts 17:26.

All very amusing. Doesn't fill me with confidence that you actually know what you're talking about. In fact it appears you don't.

You'd better get onto answersingenesis.com to get your story straight.

But keep going. I need a few more laughs.

That picture of the orchid we all come from was classic. Carry on.

 

[Roylion]

That picture of the orchid we all come from was classic.

Is basic comprehension beyond you? Go back and read what I actually said about the “orchid”. That you would even say that merely confirms (yet again) that you don’t know how evolution works. At least you give me some laughs when you try and unsuccessfully discredit it.

Carry on.

Worked out Genesis 4 with your “Christian brothers” yet?

 

[Rosscoe]

Is basic comprehension beyond you? Go back and read what I actually said about the “orchid”. That you would even say that merely confirms (yet again) that you don’t know how evolution works. At least you give me some laughs when you try and unsuccessfully discredit it.



Worked out Genesis 4 with your “Christian brothers” yet?

if two orchids mate I don’t believe you get anything other than orchid.

 

[Roylion]

if two orchids mate I don’t believe you get anything other than orchid.

I’ll ask again. Is basic comprehension beyond you? Do you understand sentences and words over 4-5 letters?

Once again go back and read what I actually said about the “orchid”. That you would even say that merely confirms (yet again) that you don’t know how evolution works.