Win Prizes Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

[Gethelred]

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack.

As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them.

If you've still got a live question posted to a christian, feel free to continue conversing for the time being.

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Vdubs]

So why do you think Jesus was such a dick in OT?

Do you ever see any Jews refer to Jesus?
Let it go.
It is not important.
We ALL know what Christians believe- the Trinity- That was not an OT ideology.
Yahweh is the name used for God as He revealed Himself to His people in the OT times.
The NT is all about Jesus and what He has done for us sinners.
There is a time-line demarcation.
John- great book. So glad you're getting something out of it.

 

[Total Power]

Do you ever see any Jews refer to Jesus?
Let it go.
It is not important.
We ALL know what Christians believe- the Trinity- That was not an OT ideology.
Yahweh is the name used for God as He revealed Himself to His people in the OT times.
The NT is all about Jesus and what He has done for us sinners.

What's God got to do with tags? Jesus/YWH = one God. A bit embarrassed aren't you?

OT is God in pure form = father. NT is God in human form = Son. Both are equally important. You saying what son says matter more than the father? YWH said God's laws are set in stone and Jesus clearly stated he didn't come to abolish the laws but to fulfill them. Paul on the other hand insisted otherwise. Read your own Bible. Jesus stated Multiple times 'Didnt Moses give you the laws? observe them'.

 

[carltonchelsea]

You differentiate between the OT and the Bible?

To be honest I don’t differentiate between any of the books of the cults.
They are inherently all the same stupidity, dressed up in their own geographical ignorance.
I don’t particularly blame the original authors, I blame the people that blindly follow this bullshizen in the modern age.
Humanity should be better, but the majority are still idiots, I find it exceedingly disappointing that people bladder on about inner peace and spiritual fulfilment and then insert the cults.
The hijacking of the numinous, awe inspiring, power of nature and our relationship to the earth and our continuing understanding of the universe and our place in it by the cults the most degrading part of my short existence on this planet.
I’ve never felt like I belonged to anything in particular, I’m a bit of a lone wolf, but the connections I make with other humans whether briefly or with family and old friends so powerful, I don’t need the insertion of anything that the cults require of me.
I love subtlety’s.
When I learn something new about us, or our planet or our universe, that is what inspires me, it lifts me like nothing else apart from creating some music on the rare occasion I get to strum my guitar or write a verse or bang the headphones on and spend hours creating an 8 bar loop, that pumps my nads more than any ******* cultish lie ever could do for you or your lot.
I feel sad that the majority of people on this little blue ball are stuck in a 1 bar loop, never wanting to hear what the next bar has to offer.
“Jesus said this, Jesus did this” the end.
Our planet is 4.5 billion years old, life happened here sometime after that within a billion years or so, our universe is somewhere around the 13.7 billion years of age, inserting ignorant goat herders views of how it all went down and should go down forever into the future is the most criminally absurd and degenerate set of standards humans have imprisoned their fellow apes to live by.
And I rail against it, I laugh at it, I mock it, I make fun of it, in fact, I make up songs about it.
I think I write pretty good jesusy/goddy songs, my whole family join in and we laugh at how easy it is to do.
I should release some and join in on the grift, but alas, my jig would be more obvious than Brian Houston’s, a pedo son, raping the lives of the stupidly gullible with the highest of tax free impunity, my conscience couldn’t cope.
You dig the lie, I don’t, I dig the groove of life, that’s the difference between me and your lot.
Good luck to ya!
I have a wave to ride, a beer to drink, my missus to *, a dance floor to punish, a line to do, a hook to mesmerise me.
Au revoir

 

[Vdubs]

What's God got to do with tags? Jesus/YWH = one God. A bit embarrassed aren't you?

OT is God in pure form = father. NT is God in human form = Son. Both are equally important. You saying what son says matter more than the father? YWH said God's laws are set in stone and Jesus clearly stated he didn't come to abolish the laws but to fulfill them. Paul on the other hand insisted otherwise. Read your own Bible.

Been to Bible school and done Hermeneutics? Have you studied Eschatology?
These are important issues.
Instead you waste your time on Semantics.

 

[Vdubs]

To be honest I don’t differentiate between any of the books of the cults.
They are inherently all the same stupidity, dressed up in their own geographical ignorance.
I don’t particularly blame the original authors, I blame the people that blindly follow this bullshizen in the modern age.
Humanity should be better, but the majority are still idiots, I find it exceedingly disappointing that people bladder on about inner peace and spiritual fulfilment and then insert the cults.
The hijacking of the numinous, awe inspiring, power of nature and our relationship to the earth and our continuing understanding of the universe and our place in it by the cults the most degrading part of my short existence on this planet.
I’ve never felt like I belonged to anything in particular, I’m a bit of a lone wolf, but the connections I make with other humans whether briefly or with family and old friends so powerful, I don’t need the insertion of anything that the cults require of me.
I love subtlety’s.
When I learn something new about us, or our planet or our universe, that is what inspires me, it lifts me like nothing else apart from creating some music on the rare occasion I get to strum my guitar or write a verse or bang the headphones on and spend hours creating an 8 bar loop, that pumps my nads more than any ******* cultish lie ever could do for you or your lot.
I feel sad that the majority of people on this little blue ball are stuck in a 1 bar loop, never wanting to hear what the next bar has to offer.
“Jesus said this, Jesus did this” the end.
Our planet is 4.5 billion years old, life happened here sometime after that within a billion years or so, our universe is somewhere around the 13.7 billion years of age, inserting ignorant goat herders views of how it all went down and should go down forever into the future is the most criminally absurd and degenerate set of standards humans have imprisoned their fellow apes to live by.
And I rail against it, I laugh at it, I mock it, I make fun of it, in fact, I make up songs about it.
I think I write pretty good jesusy/goddy songs, my whole family join in and we laugh at how easy it is to do.
I should release some and join in on the grift, but alas, my jig would be more obvious than Brian Houston’s, a pedo son, raping the lives of the stupidly gullible with the highest of tax free impunity, my conscience couldn’t cope.
You dig the lie, I don’t, I dig the groove of life, that’s the difference between me and your lot.
Good luck to ya!
I have a wave to ride, a beer to drink, my missus to fu**, a dance floor to punish, a line to do, a hook to mesmerise me.
Au revoir

I appreciate your vitality and honesty.

 

[Total Power]

Been to Bible school and done Hermeneutics? Have you studied Eschatology?
These are important issues.
Instead you waste your time on Semantics.

I actually did.

So you believe in Paul more than you do Jesus? as i said a bit embassed about OT aren't you? know the difference but ceremonial and moral laws? Paul argued ceremonial laws will not be observed but moral laws are FOR EVER. As i said, why don;t you read your own Bible?

 

[Vdubs]

I actually did.

So you believe in Paul more than you do Jesus? as i said a bit embassed about OT aren't you? know the difference but ceremonial and moral laws? Paul argued ceremonial laws will not be observed but moral laws are FOR EVER. As i said, why don;t you read your own Bible?

Hard to believe, but I will take you on your word.
Trust me, Bible interpretation is very important for me, and it can not be written down here in this thread.
I read my Bible . Enough said.
It does not translate well here to the questions you ask.

And no, embarrassment is not a word I use about the OT. Incredulity, at times, sure. I would not be human if that was not the truth. But not being alone in that boat makes Bible study that much more purposeful.

 

[Total Power]

Hard to believe, but I will take you on your word.

We had Bible school every day for 45 minutes when i was 18. I spent 2 years studying the Bible.

Trust me, Bible interpretation is very important for me, and it can not be written down here in this thread.
I read my Bible . Enough said.
It does not translate well here to the questions you ask.

Christians disagree with you, vast majority agree moral laws stand. Just from wiki

Most Christian groups believe that of the Old Covenant, only parts dealing with the moral law (as opposed to ceremonial law) are still applicable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant

As i said, go read your Bible, it's quite clear about Moral laws. It's not my fault you cherry pick what suits you.

 

[Vdubs]

We had Bible school every day for 45 minutes when i was 18. I spent 2 years studying the Bible.


Christians disagree with you, vast majority agree moral laws stand. Just from wiki

Most Christian groups believe that of the Old Covenant, only parts dealing with the moral law (as opposed to ceremonial law) are still applicable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant

As i said, go read your Bible, it's quite clear about Moral laws. It's not my fault you cherry pick what suits you.

Fair enough, you make your point.
Ceremonial law is not big on my to do list.

 

[Total Power]

Fair enough, you make your point.
Ceremonial law is not big on my to do list.

I am not talking about ceremonial laws, but why don't you talk about the brutal moral laws that Jesus/YWH gave us in the Old Testament? yeah i know, it's s**t right?

If i murder a child under the pre-text that 'it applied to my context then but it doesn't apply now', that doesn't make me any less of a murderer. Christians who try to downplay the brutal moral laws by saying but they are OT laws, they don't understand their own religion, moral laws are for EVER. Both Paul and Jesus said it. If a deity says i would murder a child but don't question my ways, 'i had to murder then', why is it Good?

Remember there's plenty of s**t in NT too. Like 'be my follower first, hate my family', 'hate the unbelievers', 'don't be friends with evil unbelievers' ,'women are inferior to men' , 'slavery is ok' etc etc etc. that's a horrible horrible teaching. Context is irrelevant when it comes to murder of the harmless and defenseless beings in this world. Like children, like women, like old people. Saying murder was under a certain context is actually admitting the obvious. There is NO context in spreading hate and violence. NONE!

Anyone capable of committing henious crimes as Jesus/YWH in OT is capable of doing a lot worse than that. Maybe YWH realised he ****ed up and sent Jesus to correct his mistake! that would make sense, but apparently is God infinitely good. Yeah only when rape, murder, torture, stoning, infanticide didn't work. Plz m8.

 

[carltonchelsea]

I appreciate your vitality and honesty.

Thanks dude, look man, I’ve lived a pretty good life, I’ve traveled fairly extensively, been in places most never will, not in a jump out of planes over small canyons type of way, I admire those folks that want that adrenaline, it’s not my scene, I like body to be mostly, very safe, I take highly calculated risks within my intellectual and physical abilities.
I just do not and will never understand giving up my responsibilities to a force that I can’t see, feel, imagine!
I prefer to let nature have its way with me, not your outside of nature thingsmewhatsitsname.

 

[sdfc]

Thanks dude, look man, I’ve lived a pretty good life, I’ve traveled fairly extensively, been in places most never will, not in a jump out of planes over small canyons type of way, I admire those folks that want that adrenaline, it’s not my scene, I like body to be mostly, very safe, I take highly calculated risks within my intellectual and physical abilities.
I just do not and will never understand giving up my responsibilities to a force that I can’t see, feel, imagine!
I prefer to let nature have its way with me, not your outside of nature thingsmewhatsitsname.

Do Christians give up their responsibilities to god?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Do Christians give up their responsibilities to god?

Yes

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Derek & Clive have the answers as always.






Thanks for the off season gents, I love the cricket!

Peter Cook! What a virtuoso that man was! And Dud is the perfect foil for him.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

To be honest I don’t differentiate between any of the books of the cults.
They are inherently all the same stupidity, dressed up in their own geographical ignorance.
I don’t particularly blame the original authors, I blame the people that blindly follow this bullshizen in the modern age.
Humanity should be better, but the majority are still idiots, I find it exceedingly disappointing that people bladder on about inner peace and spiritual fulfilment and then insert the cults.
The hijacking of the numinous, awe inspiring, power of nature and our relationship to the earth and our continuing understanding of the universe and our place in it by the cults the most degrading part of my short existence on this planet.
I’ve never felt like I belonged to anything in particular, I’m a bit of a lone wolf, but the connections I make with other humans whether briefly or with family and old friends so powerful, I don’t need the insertion of anything that the cults require of me.
I love subtlety’s.
When I learn something new about us, or our planet or our universe, that is what inspires me, it lifts me like nothing else apart from creating some music on the rare occasion I get to strum my guitar or write a verse or bang the headphones on and spend hours creating an 8 bar loop, that pumps my nads more than any ******* cultish lie ever could do for you or your lot.
I feel sad that the majority of people on this little blue ball are stuck in a 1 bar loop, never wanting to hear what the next bar has to offer.
“Jesus said this, Jesus did this” the end.
Our planet is 4.5 billion years old, life happened here sometime after that within a billion years or so, our universe is somewhere around the 13.7 billion years of age, inserting ignorant goat herders views of how it all went down and should go down forever into the future is the most criminally absurd and degenerate set of standards humans have imprisoned their fellow apes to live by.
And I rail against it, I laugh at it, I mock it, I make fun of it, in fact, I make up songs about it.
I think I write pretty good jesusy/goddy songs, my whole family join in and we laugh at how easy it is to do.
I should release some and join in on the grift, but alas, my jig would be more obvious than Brian Houston’s, a pedo son, raping the lives of the stupidly gullible with the highest of tax free impunity, my conscience couldn’t cope.
You dig the lie, I don’t, I dig the groove of life, that’s the difference between me and your lot.
Good luck to ya!
I have a wave to ride, a beer to drink, my missus to fu**, a dance floor to punish, a line to do, a hook to mesmerise me.
Au revoir

Would give an extra Like if I could, for your use of "numinous".

 

[Vdubs]

I am not talking about ceremonial laws, but why don't you talk about the brutal moral laws that Jesus/YWH gave us in the Old Testament? yeah i know, it's sh*t right?

If i murder a child under the pre-text that 'it applied to my context then but it doesn't apply now', that doesn't make me any less of a murderer. Christians who try to downplay the brutal moral laws by saying but they are OT laws, they don't understand their own religion, moral laws are for EVER. Both Paul and Jesus said it. If a deity says i would murder a child but don't question my ways, 'i had to murder then', why is it Good?

Remember there's plenty of sh*t in NT too. Like 'be my follower first, hate my family', 'hate the unbelievers', 'don't be friends with evil unbelievers' ,'women are inferior to men' , 'slavery is ok' etc etc etc. that's a horrible horrible teaching. Context is irrelevant when it comes to murder of the harmless and defenseless beings in this world. Like children, like women, like old people. Saying murder was under a certain context is actually admitting the obvious. There is NO context in spreading hate and violence. NONE!

Anyone capable of committing henious crimes as Jesus/YWH in OT is capable of doing a lot worse than that. Maybe YWH realised he f’ed up and sent Jesus to correct his mistake! that would make sense, but apparently is God infinitely good. Yeah only when rape, murder, torture, stoning, infanticide didn't work. Plz m8.

I don't see Jesus in that light at all, not even when I was a doubter, skeptic and questioner.
He was renowned for spending his time with sinners, those that were marginalised, needed what he offered, not just the miracles.
What you said about Him is 100% a context issue, no doubt at all. He did not advocate "hatred" of family in the sense you refer to.
Jesus never advocated murder.
Can't you accept Jesus as the Redeemer He said He was. Mayne OT God was seen to be too punitive, but his people did stuff up way too often. The descriptions in the OT are out there for sure. How you react to them is up to you. I certainly don't take any of it personally; it is instructive and demonstrates the power of God, and that He demands love and respect, but I don't get much in the way of day to day pragmatic living advice. I doubt any modern day Christian does.
What Jesus taught is also largely unachievable, but his passion for the lost people of His time was undeniable, and that is worth following.
I wonder what Jesus would be like right now in 2022 in Australia. Or what about around the world?
Would He nurture the homeless street people in our cities?
Would He occupy the MCG with His messages?
Anyway, my point is I like a lot of your thought processes and I respect you may have been dealt with in ways that are abhorrent, but I really don't see Jesus Himself as capable of anything malicious, negative, or destructive.

 

[carltonchelsea]

I wonder what Jesus would be like right now in 2022 in Australia. Or what about around the world?

An atheist.

 

[Total Power]

I don't see Jesus in that light at all, not even when I was a doubter, skeptic and questioner.
He was renowned for spending his time with sinners, those that were marginalised, needed what he offered, not just the miracles.
What you said about Him is 100% a context issue, no doubt at all. He did not advocate "hatred" of family in the sense you refer to.

So in what 'light' do you interpret the word 'hate' here?

“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

or

"If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life"

or

Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.



You keep clutching that straw. It's quite clear he is insecure and DEMANDS i must love him first and hate my family or leave my family first. Is the teaching i want my son to follow? i hope no one teaches this to anyone. This is where BT got his whole 'you can't love if you can't love God' bullshit.

Jesus never advocated murder.
Can't you accept Jesus as the Redeemer He said He was. Mayne OT God was seen to be too punitive, but his people did stuff up way too often. The descriptions in the OT are out there for sure. How you react to them is up to you. I certainly don't take any of it personally; it is instructive and demonstrates the power of God, and that He demands love and respect, but I don't get much in the way of day to day pragmatic living advice. I doubt any modern day Christian does.
What Jesus taught is also largely unachievable, but his passion for the lost people of His time was undeniable, and that is worth following.
I wonder what Jesus would be like right now in 2022 in Australia. Or what about around the world?
Would He nurture the homeless street people in our cities?
Would He occupy the MCG with His messages?
Anyway, my point is I like a lot of your thought processes and I respect you may have been dealt with in ways that are abhorrent, but I really don't see Jesus Himself as capable of anything malicious, negative, or destructive.

We already established Jesus is YWH. Do you wish to go over this all over again? Cause i am happy to.

How i react to them is upto me? how do you react to stoning of babies, homosexuals, rape of women, sex slaves, infanticide etc? Anyone human would shake their head in disgust, only apologists like you keep telling to read 'murder and rape' in the light of NT. THERE IS NO ******* LIGHT HERE MATE, NONE!!! Only darkness and sick disgusting, twisted psychology on display here.

God DEMANDS love and respect? if i don't love him then my wife needs to be raped according to YWH? What about the ******* free will then? oh wait, i am an ubeliever, i am evil by default, yeah your Jesus said that. No one really believes that, including you. How ironic.

 

[Vdubs]

So in what 'light' do you interpret the word 'hate' here?

“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

or

"If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life"

or

Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.



You keep clutching that straw. It's quite clear he is insecure and DEMANDS i must love him first and hate my family or leave my family first. Is the teaching i want my son to follow? i hope no one teaches this to anyone. This is where BT got his whole 'you can't love if you can't love God' bullshit.




We already established Jesus is YWH. Do you wish to go over this all over again? Cause i am happy to.

How i react to them is upto me? how do you react to stoning of babies, homosexuals, rape of women, sex slaves, infanticide etc? Anyone human would shake their head in disgust, only apologists like you keep telling to read 'murder and rape' in the light of NT. THERE IS NO ******* LIGHT HERE MATE, NONE!!! Only darkness and sick disgusting, twisted psychology on display here.

God DEMANDS love and respect? if i don't love him then my wife needs to be raped according to YWH? What about the ******* free will then? oh wait, i am an ubeliever, i am evil by default, yeah your Jesus said that. No one really believes that, including you. How ironic.

Jesus is not demanding that you literally hate your family. He is using hyperbole to illustrate the steep cost of following him. Any prospective follower must be glad to give up everything, to love him unreservedly—to sell all in order to have him as your highest treasure (Matt. 13:44–46). Our affections for Christ must be of such an intensity and quality that, by comparison, all other loves seem like hate.

This is the first of three sobering warnings in Luke 14:26-33 against making a hasty decision to follow Jesus. A genuine disciple must:

1. Love Jesus even more than your earthly family (v. 26).
2. Take up your cross and follow him (v. 27).
3. Be willing to lay down everything—even your life—and go hard after him (v. 33).

A wise builder won’t construct a tower unless he’s first made certain he has enough materials to complete it. A wise king won’t go to war unless he knows his army possesses enough firepower to have a fighting chance at repelling the enemy.

We all have questions about those words in the OT. You react to them with more fervour than I do. Does not mean they are not questionable. We all question these words.

 

[Total Power]

Jesus is not demanding that you literally hate your family. He is using hyperbole to illustrate the steep cost of following him. Any prospective follower must be glad to give up everything, to love him unreservedly—to sell all in order to have him as your highest treasure (Matt. 13:44–46). Our affections for Christ must be of such an intensity and quality that, by comparison, all other loves seem like hate.

So you cannot love your family first and then God or at worst, both equally? that's Odd, cause God is asking me to love him ahead of the people who brought me to this world. You can do both, a creator who created the world will not demand 'love me first and then....', that's something that my ex jealous GF did. Jesus really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

This is the worst excuse i have heard mate. Did you read the verse just before that? if not let me help:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35 For I have come to set a man against his father,

and a daughter against her mother,

and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;

36 and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household.


AND Don't forget

Whoever is not with me [Jesus] is against me"

Matthew 12:30 = Luke 11:23, Bible (NIV)

You don't see what he is trying to do here? why does it have me to 'pick me orelse....'? Yeah you can't say it's OT now either. That verse sounds like Hitler or Stalin, honestly.

Just a loving poetry right? If you can't love your mother who carried you in her womb for 9 months and the creator of the universe throws a tantrum over it like he did quite often in the OT and then your deity have issues. Are you seriously telling me this is a 'follow me first orelse your not worthy" scenario? this is just ******* . Just ****** morality.

And hate really means hate. In greek it's already translates to hate. Could 'God' have not used a better word here? considering he is god?

This is the first of three sobering warnings in Luke 14:26-33 against making a hasty decision to follow Jesus. A genuine disciple must:

1. Love Jesus even more than your earthly family (v. 26).
2. Take up your cross and follow him (v. 27).
3. Be willing to lay down everything—even your life—and go hard after him (v. 33).

See above. It's like a jealous ex- relationship, no thanks, terrible teaching.

A wise builder won’t construct a tower unless he’s first made certain he has enough materials to complete it. A wise king won’t go to war unless he knows his army possesses enough firepower to have a fighting chance at repelling the enemy.

We all have questions about those words in the OT. You react to them with more fervour than I do. Does not mean they are not questionable. We all question these words.

That's odd, considering God is defined as loving , kind and tolerant, i see no evidence of that.

 

[Roylion]

Can't you accept Jesus as the Redeemer He said He was.

Why should Jesus be accepted as the "Redeemer"? Just because he supposedly said he was?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Why should Jesus be accepted as the "Redeemer"? Just because he supposedly said he was?

See this is why religions invented evil. So they had something to save us from.

 

[Opine]

See this is why religions invented evil. So they had something to save us from.

If so, you and other atheists in here are not overly different; you keep, at very least implicitly, preaching that religion and it’s followers are evil, and needing to be saved by atheism and atheists.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If so, you and other atheists in here are not overly different; you keep, at very least implicitly, preaching that religion and it’s followers are evil, and needing to be saved by atheism and atheists.

Nah that's a huge leap.

I'd say religious believers are wrong, I'd say religion has caused an enormous amount of harm and suffering, possibly on balance more than the good it's done; who can say for sure, I'd say religion invented ludicrous boogie men called Satan or The Devil.

But "evil", no I reserve that for old mate Adolf and a few others.

 

[Vdubs]

Why should Jesus be accepted as the "Redeemer"? Just because he supposedly said he was?

As opposed to the other descriptions he had for Jesus.