Religion Ask a Christian - Part 2

[Vdubs]

You can have him back lol i will pack his bags and drive him to the airport too.

Useless spud, worst coach in the history of PAFC , 10 years without grand finals. I think 3rd world in AFL/VFL history too.

I now see your problem, you judge a person by their faith and not their work. I am the opposite, for me i can judge a person by their works irrespective of faith.

I loved Kenny as a coach, never knew about his faith, he got your team into prelims. I preferred CS as coach for us when it came to a choice of CS, Sanderson and Kenny, but Kenny can get your players to play for him.

 

[western royboy]

I loved Kenny as a coach, never knew about his faith, he got your team into prelims. I preferred CS as coach for us when it came to a choice of CS, Sanderson and Kenny, but Kenny can get your players to play for him.

Kenny was my last coach, I loved him, it was his first gig, he was passionate and was able to motivate the worst player in the twos just as adequately as the best player in the 1’s, but best of all he was a great bloke

 

[Richard Pryor]

I'm not telling you that you can't speak. The forum is yours pal.

Just pointing out that the frame of reference you're using for your argument is more than a little out of date.

Science doesn't claim to have all the answers. But starting several hundred years ago, science started to provide answers for some questions of life that completely debunked the religious explanation of the world, and in the time since, religion has singularly failed to return serve, retreating instead into an elevation of "faith" to a level with fact. A level it does not deserve in the least.

A minor point, I think as well as retreating into anti-intellectualism, religion has also receded along a different front, into pure moral philosophy and psychology. The "God of the Gaps Argument" where some of the faithful concede everything incompatible with science yet hold onto the remnants that are currently beyond the scope of science.

There is nothing wrong with this persay but it does require a "buffet style" theology and strains the credulity for myself.

 

[Malifice]

A minor point, I think as well as retreating into anti-intellectualism, religion has also receded along a different front, into pure moral philosophy and psychology. The "God of the Gaps Argument" where some of the faithful concede everything incompatible with science yet hold onto the remnants that are currently beyond the scope of science.

There is nothing wrong with this persay but it does require a "buffet style" theology and strains the credulity for myself.

At various times in its history, many religions have been syncretic with science.

Both Christianity and Islam have supported scientific advancement. In Europe literally the entire education system in the middle ages and renaissance were Christian, and similar was found in the Islamic world.

The hostility between the two only started arising when scientists started to discover that the Bible (and Quran) may not actually be literally correct or even close to it (evolution, astronomy etc).

When it was all down to discovering Gods miracles they were fine and supportive. When the scientists started positing things against the faith, well that's when the burnings began.

 

[Richard Pryor]

At various times in its history, many religions have been syncretic with science.

Both Christianity and Islam have supported scientific advancement. In Europe literally the entire education system in the middle ages and renaissance were Christian, and similar was found in the Islamic world.

The hostility between the two only started arising when scientists started to discover that the Bible (and Quran) may not actually be literally correct or even close to it (evolution, astronomy etc).

When it was all down to discovering Gods miracles they were fine and supportive. When the scientists started positing things against the faith, well that's when the burnings began.

On this while I can't recall the details I know Nicolas Copernicus proposed a heliocentric model of astronomy before Galileo and did not experience religious persecution as a result to my knowledge. What landed Galileo in hot water was not his heliocentric model, but the fact he interpreted the Bible to prove his models right to be considered.

Abstract of interesting article unfortunately behind paywall:

Galileo's understanding of the relationship between science and the Bible has frequently been celebrated as anticipating a modern distinction between the essentially religious nature of scripture and the claims of the natural sciences. Galileo's reference to the remarks of Cardinal Baronius, that the Bible teaches one how to go to heaven and not how the heavens go, has been seem as emblematic of his commitment to the distinction between the Book of Nature and the Book of Scripture. This essay argues that, contrary to the common view, Galileo shares with the theologians of the Inquisition the same fundamental principles of biblical interpretation: principles which include traditional scriptural hermeneutics enunciated by Augustine and Aquinas, as well as those characteristic of Counter-Reformation Catholicism. Although Galileo argues that one should not begin with biblical passages in order to discover truths about nature, he does think that the Bible contains scientific truths and that it is the function of wise interpreters to discover these truths. The dispute with the theologians of the Inquisition occurred because they thought that it was obviously true scientifically that the earth did not move and, on the basis of this view, they read the Bible as revealing the same thing. They reached this conclusion because, like Galileo, they thought that the Bible contained truths about nature. Of course, what these theologians accepted as scientifically true, Galileo denied.

Galileo and the Interpretation of the Bible - Science & Education

Galileo's understanding of the relationship between science and the Bible has frequently been celebrated as anticipating a modern distinction between the essentially religious nature of scripture and the claims of the natural sciences. Galileo's reference to the remarks of Cardinal Baronius...

link.springer.com

I think the more dramatic decline in religion in the modern age is really the development of the social sciences which have begun to create a secular codification of morality which has always seemed to be the main draw of religion (I think most of the faithful throughout history could not have really cared less about the heady academic theological works of people like Aquinas and Augustine, they were in it for the social values).

 

[Total Power]

I loved Kenny as a coach, never knew about his faith, he got your team into prelims. I preferred CS as coach for us when it came to a choice of CS, Sanderson and Kenny, but Kenny can get your players to play for him.

2 prelims in 10 years! no coach in the history of AFL spent 10+ years at a job, without a grand final and not been sacked.

Proof is in the pudding, 10 years is enough to build a list for a flag (or atleast a grand final), if you can't you have to make way for others cause you are simply not good enough.

A lot of other coaches got sacked achieving a lot more. Buckley, Sanderson, Pyke, Malthouse, Lyon etc.

He can be the nicest bloke in the world and a great player. But FWIW, he is a s**t coach. Ask any Port supporter, the way he has ****** our development of young guns is a beyond a joke. Just last game against Richmond, no ruck vs 2 full time rucks. Finalyson did ok, till the final quarter for a semi part time ruck but ran out of gas. If we had a full time ruck, we could have won. Genius move.

You can have him for free. If you need money to ship him over, i am happy to chip in as well.

 

[Evolved1]

2 prelims in 10 years! no coach in the history of AFL spent 10+ years at a job, without a grand final and not been sacked.

Proof is in the pudding, 10 years is enough to build a list for a flag (or atleast a grand final), if you can't you have to make way for others cause you are simply not good enough.

A lot of other coaches got sacked achieving a lot more. Buckley, Sanderson, Pyke, Malthouse etc.

Look at Mr Fancy Pants here who expects grand final appearances!

 

[footyfan1978]

What draws Christian types to be fans of Donald Trump?
Seems a weird duo from someone that not attracted to either.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

What draws Christian types to be fans of Donald Trump?
Seems a weird duo from someone that not attracted to either.

He's the perfect avatar for evangelicals. Would be hard to find a better representation of their values.

 

[owen87]

What draws Christian types to be fans of Donald Trump?
Seems a weird duo from someone that not attracted to either.

How Trump Stole Christmas—And Why Evangelicals Rally to Their Savior

Former President Donald Trump's Christmas themed rally in Dallas shows why his support from evangelicals is as strong as ever

time.com

 

[footyfan1978]

FFS, I wanted first hand accounts.
Which lazy Christian that started this thread does not even follow his own thread?

 

[Gethelred]

FFS, I wanted first hand accounts.
Which lazy Christian that started this thread does not even follow his own thread?

This is a thread on an Australian footy site; you're not going to get many Americans, let alone American evangelicals. There's one evangelical in this thread - Vdubs - and he's not really committed either way for or against Trump.

But then, he's a notorious fencesitter anyway.

 

[Vdubs]

This is a thread on an Australian footy site; you're not going to get many Americans, let alone American evangelicals. There's one evangelical in this thread - Vdubs - and he's not really committed either way for or against Trump.

But then, he's a notorious fencesitter anyway.

You purport to know a lot about someone by their posts.
Evangelical? I know you think and equate any perceived proselytyising on my behalf as evangelical, but the reality is in real life, I am Born Again, but nowhere near an evangelical, unfortunately.
Trump ambivalence? No interest in or respect for him.
Fence sitter? Never keen on splinters.
I love your pot stirring. Truly.

 

[footyfan1978]

This is a thread on an Australian footy site; you're not going to get many Americans, let alone American evangelicals. There's one evangelical in this thread - Vdubs - and he's not really committed either way for or against Trump.

But then, he's a notorious fencesitter anyway.

Who said American?
Not me...

 

[Evolved1]

Who said American?
Not me...

Australian Christians generally don't care for Donald Trump, and I don't recall there being any Trump fans posting on this thread. You're better off asking the question on an American Christian website.

 

[footyfan1978]

Australian Christians generally don't care for Donald Trump, and I don't recall there being any Trump fans posting on this thread. You're better off asking the question on an American Christian website.

Nah, was just a passing thought as had the impression some Aussies ones did too. Must have just been the few I heard mention his name in some context of admiration which perplexed me.
I already knew the Americans were crackers, so less interested in them in particular.
So most Aussies ones hate him too.
Learn something new everyday.

 

[Gethelred]

You purport to know a lot about someone by their posts.
Evangelical? I know you think and equate any perceived proselytyising on my behalf as evangelical, but the reality is in real life, I am Born Again, but nowhere near an evangelical, unfortunately.
Trump ambivalence? No interest in or respect for him.
Fence sitter? Never keen on splinters.
I love your pot stirring. Truly.

It took you ten posts to actually say whether you thought he was a real christian or not, Dubs. And your description of yourself and the reignition of your faith is fairly... evangelical.

Methinks my description of you was apt.

 

[Vdubs]

It took you ten posts to actually say whether you thought he was a real christian or not, Dubs. And your description of yourself and the reignition of your faith is fairly... evangelical.

Methinks my description of you was apt.

Of course, otherwise you would not have posted it .
You may well be correct.
Are you referring to Scomo or Trump, re the real thing?
And in either case, I would have no idea.
Some days, I doubt my own strength of faith, but I always know it's me that has moved, and not God.
If people are judging Christians by their works, it could be very up and down.
It's only when you get to know believers really well, and experience how they handle true adversity, and how they treat people that you can see their fruit

 

[sdfc]

Of course, otherwise you would not have posted it .
You may well be correct.
Are you referring to Scomo or Trump, re the real thing?
And in either case, I would have no idea.
Some days, I doubt my own strength of faith, but I always know it's me that has moved, and not God.
If people are judging Christians by their works, it could be very up and down.
It's only when you get to know believers really well, and experience how they handle true adversity, and how they treat people that you can see their fruit

What's your opinion of the apparent silence of Morrison's church on the coalition government's treatment Nadesalingam's?

 

[Vdubs]

What's your opinion of the apparent silence of Morrison's church on the coalition government's treatment Nadesalingam's?

No opinion, yours?

 

[sdfc]

No opinion, yours?

What you are telling me is that Christians like you don't really stand for much. I would have thought standing up for the oppressed is pretty central to the doctrine.

 

[sdfc]

Sorry, the first sentence sounds a bit rude on reflection.

 

[Evolved1]

Sorry, the first sentence sounds a bit rude on reflection.

He may not be across the issue.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What draws Christian types to be fans of Donald Trump?
Seems a weird duo from someone that not attracted to either.

Try this:

White Evangelical Racism | Anthea Butler | University of North Carolina Press

The American political scene today is poisonously divided, and the vast majority of white evangelicals play a strikingly unified, powerful role in the disuni...

uncpress.org

 

[footyfan1978]

Try this:

White Evangelical Racism | Anthea Butler | University of North Carolina Press

The American political scene today is poisonously divided, and the vast majority of white evangelicals play a strikingly unified, powerful role in the disuni...

uncpress.org

I cannot be ducked looking up American craziness.
I was actually interested in hearing from Christians here that seem fond of Trump.
But it appears there are none on this forum, which is kind of good in a way.
I assumed there was more of them, than there are here.