Religion Ask a Christian - Part 2

[Evolved1]

The claims that are untrue are:

1. Religion does not hold up to logical scrutiny.

Do all religions hold up to logical scrutiny, or just yours?

 

[Pie eyed]

If someone ever said to me.. I'm here to save you from yourself.. you know what I'd ask em.. is someone here to save you from yourself as well and that man? Are you God?

Did you know we could all just be amoeba on the end of a flipper, man.......on a Turtle swimming through cosmos, to Comfortably Numb.

I could be a God....

This could all be a dream.

Except The Hun woke me up with some stupid s**t about some chinese f*n tik tok crap.

 

[Vdubs]

Absolutely not. You don't think that the earlier Gospels having mentioned Lazarus' sisters wouldn't have mentioned Lazarus being raised from the dead if such a remarkable event was actually historical? Only the Gospel written furtherest from the time of the alleged events so described actually mentions it.


Four different sources mentioning the same event would actually increase the likelhood of it being true wouldnt it? Having said that its clear that Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and embellished the stories found in Mark.

In my reckoning, if the 4 gospels were too similar, I would almost suspect collusion. I appreciate and respect the errors and inaccuracies, and they enhance my belief

 

[Vdubs]

The writers of the gospels could not have imagined that over 2000 years later, a group of non-believers are writing about their "fabrications" on a footy forum.

 

[Roylion]

In my reckoning, if the 4 gospels were too similar, I would almost suspect collusion.

Matthew and Luke clearly use Mark as a source. Over three-quarters of Mark's content is found in both Matthew and Luke, and 97% of Mark is found in at least one of the other two synoptic gospels. It may not be 'collusion', but definitely there was quite a bit of copying.

.... they enhance my belief

How so?

 

[Vdubs]

Matthew and Luke clearly use Mark as a source. Over three-quarters of Mark's content is found in both Matthew and Luke, and 97% of Mark is found in at least one of the other two synoptic gospels.



How so?

Ordinary men (or women) were so moved to write about Jesus , any number of years later- I welcome the so-called imperfections, and inaccuracies. I've said that time after time- no big deal. These are nowhere near perfect historical accounts, but that makes them more credible in my experience of life and having been an avid reader for nearly 60 years.

 

[Roylion]

Ordinary men (or women) were so moved to write about Jesus , any number of years later- I welcome the so-called imperfections, and inaccuracies.

But that doesn't make the purported events true because they have imperfections and inaccuracies. It doesn't make them any more historically valid. Many works of literature purported to be about historical events have imperfections and inaccuracies.

These are nowhere near perfect historical accounts,

They're not historical accounts at all. In the same way works of historical fiction are not historical accounts.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Did you know we could all just be amoeba on the end of a flipper, man.......on a Turtle swimming through cosmos, to Comfortably Numb.

I could be a God....

This could all be a dream.

Except The Hun woke me up with some stupid s**t about some chinese f*n tik tok crap.

Keep the faith dude.. keep the faith.. maybe your God will never return to the jungle again.

 

[Total Power]

Ordinary men (or women) were so moved to write about Jesus , any number of years later- I welcome the so-called imperfections, and inaccuracies. I've said that time after time- no big deal. These are nowhere near perfect historical accounts, but that makes them more credible in my experience of life and having been an avid reader for nearly 60 years.

Which ordinary men and women would those be? no one wrote about Jesus till 150 years after this death. Outside of the Gospels, there's no evidence whatsoever, you wonder if Jesus was that important why no mention? Buddha was 500 years before Jesus and many kings wrote about him. Many coins depicted Buddha.

The whole ressuraction story was a fabrication by the church, quite common back in those days (gods rising from the dead)

 

[Total Power]

The writers of the gospels could not have imagined that over 2000 years later, a group of non-believers are writing about their "fabrications" on a footy forum.

This forum? bigfooty is nothing it's a raging debate for hundreds of years now and for scholarly consensus, see below:

If the gospels are actually based on eyewitness testimony, how did the various things Jesus did while he was alone get written down?

I'm thinking of Jesus' private conversations with Pilate mainly. There are others, but that one for now. How exactly did that event get relayed to the author of the gospels? Did Pilate appear for a private interview with a local journo there?

even if i accept Gospels as authentic, you are still doomed


"Neither the evangelists nor their first readers engaged in historical analysis. Their aim was to confirm Christian faith (Lk. 1.4; Jn. 20.31). Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings." - Oxford Annotated Bible, 4th ed, pg. 1744


Quite the other way around, the gospel writers wanted to confirm Christ as God. Considering nothing was written about Jesus, outside of the Gospel, it's actually impossible to take the Gospels seriously. If Jesus really was son of God etc, why no one wrote about him???

 

[Vdubs]

This forum? bigfooty is nothing it's a raging debate for hundreds of years now and for scholarly consensus, see below:

If the gospels are actually based on eyewitness testimony, how did the various things Jesus did while he was alone get written down?

I'm thinking of Jesus' private conversations with Pilate mainly. There are others, but that one for now. How exactly did that event get relayed to the author of the gospels? Did Pilate appear for a private interview with a local journo there?

even if i accept Gospels as authentic, you are still doomed


"Neither the evangelists nor their first readers engaged in historical analysis. Their aim was to confirm Christian faith (Lk. 1.4; Jn. 20.31). Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings." - Oxford Annotated Bible, 4th ed, pg. 1744

Are you planning on writing your memoirs?
Some 60-80 years of your life?
A big ask, but something I've been prodded to do several times.
Conversations from 60+ years ago, still can recall some of them.
Events, people, occurrences...
These writers were moved to write their accounts of Jesus and there are things in your life you will never forget.
How that gets described is up to the writer.

 

[western royboy]

Which ordinary men and women would those be? no one wrote about Jesus till 150 years after this death. Outside of the Gospels, there's no evidence whatsoever, you wonder if Jesus was that important why no mention? Buddha was 500 years before Jesus and many kings wrote about him. Many coins depicted Buddha.

The whole ressuraction story was a fabrication by the church, quite common back in those days (gods rising from the dead)

Noah was 950 years old when he died wasn’t he? And then again he did have two of every animal on on the Ark with him.

Let‘s not stray into other disputed waters like virgin births and the like, because they’re totally plausible.

 

[Total Power]

Are you planning on writing your memoirs?
Some 60-80 years of your life?
A big ask, but something I've been prodded to do several times.
Conversations from 60+ years ago, still can recall some of them.
Events, people, occurrences...
These writers were moved to write their accounts of Jesus and there are things in your life you will never forget.
How that gets described is up to the writer.

Memoirs are not eyewitness testimonials like Christians claim it is. The fact was it's not an eyewitness testimonial. Never was never will be. If Jesus was son of god, people would have mentioned him outside of the Gospels.

You got the last line right though, how it gets described is upto the writer. That's exactly what happened. Scholars agree on this that Jesus of NT is almost certainly a fiction.

 

[Total Power]

Noah was 950 years old when he died wasn’t he? And then again he did have two of every animal on on the Ark with him.

Let‘s not stray into other disputed waters like virgin births and the like, because they’re totally plausible.

Someone wrote a memoir of Moses 1,000 years after this death, that basically made the 10 commandments or the basis of Christianity.

That really sounds authentic but according to VD, it's all authentic

 

[western royboy]

Someone wrote a memoir of Moses 1,000 years after this death, that basically made the 10 commandments or the basis of Christianity.

That really sounds authentic but according to VD, it's all authentic

I don’t begrudge people of faith, it’s a free society, but if you’ve ever had to spend any amount of time thinking about it and delving into it, I find it hard, no actually impossible to believe any of it. And if you’ve been put thru the wringer by one of the Church’s as I have then you come to a conclusion that religon is simply a tool for power and control

 

[Evolved1]

Noah was 950 years old when he died wasn’t he? And then again he did have two of every animal on on the Ark with him.

Let‘s not stray into other disputed waters like virgin births and the like, because they’re totally plausible.

How did kangaroos hop across the ocean?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Greg Sheridan stinking it up in The Australian today simply amazing

What garbage is he spouting now? (I refuse to pay Murdoch one cent.)

 

[western royboy]

What garbage is he spouting now? (I refuse to pay Murdoch one cent.)

Christians are the most persecuted religion on earth

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Christians are the most persecuted religion on earth

Oh sheesh. So many people talk about that guy as if he's some sort of towering intellectual. He strikes me as a prize goose.

 

[owen87]

Oh sheesh. So many people talk about that guy as if he's some sort of towering intellectual. He strikes me as a prize goose.

I assume those people are all Christians?

 

[Gethelred]

The writers of the gospels could not have imagined that over 2000 years later, a group of non-believers are writing about their "fabrications" on a footy forum.

TBF, they couldn't have imagined football, an online forum, or 2000 years either.

 

[Evolved1]

TBF, they couldn't have imagined football, an online forum, or 2000 years either.

The believers thought Jesus was coming back in their generation. In that case, the bible didn't account for anything to be happening 2000 years down the track.

We've proven Christianity false just by simply existing today.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I assume those people are all Christians?

Strangely, no. He seems to have this general reputation as an intellectual.

 

[western royboy]

How did kangaroos hop across the ocean?

It’s a mystery

 

[Total Power]

The believers thought Jesus was coming back in their generation. In that case, the bible didn't account for anything to be happening 2000 years down the track.

We've proven Christianity false just by simply existing today.

This is true, i have provided evidence extensively here that the writers of the Gospel believed that doomsday is nearby. Till then, people been predicting Jesus to return for the past 1600 years, with a a fail rate of exactly 100%. Jesus was supposed to return within a generation, then someone suggested it's a 'celestial generation', = 1,000 years. The writers and the followers been wrong on all counts. What now? VD still threatens us with Jesus returning. I thought he would return with a Richmond premiership, that didn't happen either.